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Why would a loving God want animals slaughtered?

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Why would a loving God want animals slaughtered? 
Author: jgh7 
Posted: 08/02/2007 01:01 AM 
 
I've read stories in the bible about thousands of goats, sheep, rams, etc. being sacrificed to God. It's seems extremely hypocritical for God to be against human sacrifices but completely support and require animal sacrifices for atonement and worship.

Sacrificing will always be a savage barbaric act to me, and I can't understand how the God of the Old Testament would want it. It's horrible animal cruelty. It causes the animals extreme amounts of pain and kills them. I think the kosher way of doing it was to slit their throat; it's appalling to me that they view this as a humane thing to do in God's honour. I'm pretty sure their entire body is wasted in the sacrifice; the humans don't keep any of it for food. Whether they keep it or not doesn't change the fact that this is a barbaric act however.

I don't think the bible says anywhere that animal sacrificing is a horrible sin. It simply states that it is no longer needed after Jesus did his sacrifice. I guess that means if Christians still wanted to do it to show honour and respect to God (as they do with the wine drinking and cracker eating), then they still could. But I doubt anyone with a shred of compassion would do that now would they?

Can you Christians give me some justification for God demanding this horribly barbaric act to be required to achieve his forgiveness in the OT?


 
Author: Onorc 
Posted: 08/02/2007 01:08 AM 
 
There is a post that relates to about the same question you are asking about half way down the page "Why did god accept animal sacrifices as atonement for sins? " might want to check there for some answers.


Re: Why would a loving God want animals slaughtered? 
Author: achilles12604 
Posted: 08/02/2007 01:24 AM 
 








jgh7 wrote:
I've read stories in the bible about thousands of goats, sheep, rams, etc. being sacrificed to God. It's seems extremely hypocritical for God to be against human sacrifices but completely support and require animal sacrifices for atonement and worship.

Sacrificing will always be a savage barbaric act to me, and I can't understand how the God of the Old Testament would want it. It's horrible animal cruelty. It causes the animals extreme amounts of pain and kills them. I think the kosher way of doing it was to slit their throat; it's appalling to me that they view this as a humane thing to do in God's honour. I'm pretty sure their entire body is wasted in the sacrifice; the humans don't keep any of it for food. Whether they keep it or not doesn't change the fact that this is a barbaric act however.

I don't think the bible says anywhere that animal sacrificing is a horrible sin. It simply states that it is no longer needed after Jesus did his sacrifice. I guess that means if Christians still wanted to do it to show honour and respect to God (as they do with the wine drinking and cracker eating), then they still could. But I doubt anyone with a shred of compassion would do that now would they?

Can you Christians give me some justification for God demanding this horribly barbaric act to be required to achieve his forgiveness in the OT?













Quote:


Sacrificing will always be a savage barbaric act to me, and I can't understand how the God of the Old Testament would want it. It's horrible animal cruelty. It causes the animals extreme amounts of pain and kills them



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughterhouse









Quote:
The largest slaughterhouse in the world is operated by the Smithfield Packing Company in Tar Heel, North Carolina. It is capable of butchering over 32,000 pigs a day. The Dutch Stork Food Systems is the world largest manufacturer of chicken slaughtering installations with an annual turnover of 149m.

The largest slaughterhouse in India and also in Asia is located at Deonar, a suburb of Mumbai.




Why are we concerned with the few that are killed one by one? If it is indeed evil and contrary to a loving God, then shouldn't we stop our own slaughterhouses first?








Quote:

It's seems extremely hypocritical for God to be against human sacrifices but completely support and require animal sacrifices for atonement and worship.



There are obviously HUGE differences between humans and animals. I can easily understand how human sacrifice would be wrong, but killing animals would not. I don't think the idea of a "loving God" is really even applicable to your avid anti-animal killing. Humans have killed massive amounts of animals daily just to eat. Being ok with this but objecting to sacrificing animals once a year to attone for sins seems silly to me.









Quote:
I'm pretty sure their entire body is wasted in the sacrifice; the humans don't keep any of it for food.











Quote:

Genesis 31:53-55 (New International Version)

53 May the God of Abraham and the God of Nahor, the God of their father, judge between us."
So Jacob took an oath in the name of the Fear of his father Isaac. 54 He offered a sacrifice there in the hill country and invited his relatives to a meal. After they had eaten, they spent the night there.










Quote:

Leviticus 7:15-17

15 The meat of his fellowship offering of thanksgiving must be eaten on the day it is offered; he must leave none of it till morning.

16 " 'If, however, his offering is the result of a vow or is a freewill offering, the sacrifice shall be eaten on the day he offers it, but anything left over may be eaten on the next day. 17 Any meat of the sacrifice left over till the third day must be burned up.












Quote:
Leviticus 19:5-7

5 " 'When you sacrifice a fellowship offering [a] to the LORD, sacrifice it in such a way that it will be accepted on your behalf. 6 It shall be eaten on the day you sacrifice it or on the next day; anything left over until the third day must be burned up. 7 If any of it is eaten on the third day, it is impure and will not be accepted.





I think I have made my point here.

Do you have any objections or further comments?


 
Author: jgh7 
Posted: 08/02/2007 01:44 AM 
 
First let me apologize for not seeing the other post about animal sacrifice. However I think this one is more about the morals behind it rather than the point behind it.

Secondly, let me apologize for my ignorance about people eating part of the sacrifice (I haven't read the bible in a while)

Ok, now that I'm done apologizing for my stupidity, l'll start with the objections:P

This wasn't just killing animals one by one. There are stories of tens of thousands of animals being sacrificed in celebrations, and this was definately not done once a year. I'm fairly sure of that. There are many different types of sacrifices for different kinds of worship and atonement.

Humans kill animals to provide us with food, clothing, and other resources. I do think that the conditions we submit the animals to in the factories are in fact a horror. I support them being killed if it is done in a quick and painless way and they are given an adequate free-roaming life, and the purpose of their killing is to provide for our lives, not to worship a God.

There's a huge difference in killing an animal for sustenance, and killing an animal for worhsip, please tell me you can see that? It's wrong for the main purpose of killing something to be in worship for a God, it's utterly barbaric. You've pretty much brushed off the whole question by trying to change the topic to the meat industry today. I'm sure if there was an industry focused on killing animals as atonement and worhsip, then it would be outlawed and deemed as animal cruelty. Killing for the purpose of sacrifice is wrong, and while there is a difference between humans and animals, that does not change the fact that it is still sacrifice.


 
Author: achilles12604 
Posted: 08/02/2007 02:14 AM 
 








jgh7 wrote:
First let me apologize for not seeing the other post about animal sacrifice. However I think this one is more about the morals behind it rather than the point behind it.

Secondly, let me apologize for my ignorance about people eating part of the sacrifice (I haven't read the bible in a while)

Ok, now that I'm done apologizing for my stupidity, l'll start with the objections:P

This wasn't just killing animals one by one. There are stories of tens of thousands of animals being sacrificed in celebrations, and this was definately not done once a year. I'm fairly sure of that. There are many different types of sacrifices for different kinds of worship and atonement.

Humans kill animals to provide us with food, clothing, and other resources. I do think that the conditions we submit the animals to in the factories are in fact a horror. I support them being killed if it is done in a quick and painless way and they are given an adequate free-roaming life, and the purpose of their killing is to provide for our lives, not to worship a God.

There's a huge difference in killing an animal for sustenance, and killing an animal for worhsip, please tell me you can see that? It's wrong for the main purpose of killing something to be in worship for a God, it's utterly barbaric. You've pretty much brushed off the whole question by trying to change the topic to the meat industry today. I'm sure if there was an industry focused on killing animals as atonement and worhsip, then it would be outlawed and deemed as animal cruelty. Killing for the purpose of sacrifice is wrong, and while there is a difference between humans and animals, that does not change the fact that it is still sacrifice.



So in general I am getting that you feel that killing for food is acceptable but killing for worship is wrong.


I would ask you why? The end result is the same. There was a group of people. There was an animal. The animal ends up dead and the people end up full.



Why does adding a religious celebration suddenly make the act of ending the animal "evil"?


Also, I would like some sort of source on killing tens of thousands of animals.

Here are the passages I could find regarding actual numbers.

To offer two lambs every day (Numbers 28:3)





This is the only part that I can find regarding everyday sacrifice.

# The Kohen Gadol must bring a meal offering every day (Leviticus 6:13)
# To bring two additional lambs as burnt offerings on Shabbat (Numbers 28:9)
# To bring additional offerings on the New Month (Rosh Chodesh) (Numbers 28:11)
# To bring additional offerings on Passover (Numbers 28:19)
# To offer the wave offering from the meal of the new wheat (Leviticus 23:10)
# To bring additional offerings on Shavuot (Numbers 28:26)
# To bring two leaves to accompany the above sacrifice (Leviticus 23:17)
# To bring additional offerings on Rosh Hashana (Numbers 29:2)
# To bring additional offerings on Yom Kippur (Numbers 29:8)
# To bring additional offerings on Sukkot (Numbers 29:13)
# To bring additional offerings on Shmini Atzeret (Numbers 29:35)

These all appear only during festivals and special occasions.


So thus far, for daily sacrifice we are up to 730 per year for the entire nation of Israel. And these were eaten everyday by the priests.


Re: Why would a loving God want animals slaughtered? 
Author: Anonymous 
Posted: 08/02/2007 02:53 AM 
 








jgh7 wrote:
I've read stories in the bible about thousands of goats, sheep, rams, etc. being sacrificed to God. It's seems extremely hypocritical for God to be against human sacrifices but completely support and require animal sacrifices for atonement and worship.

If you consider the sacrifice of Jesus, then it is hard to say emphatically that God is against human sacrifice.









Quote:
Sacrificing will always be a savage barbaric act to me, and I can't understand how the God of the Old Testament would want it. It's horrible animal cruelty. It causes the animals extreme amounts of pain and kills them. I think the kosher way of doing it was to slit their throat; it's appalling to me that they view this as a humane thing to do in God's honour. I'm pretty sure their entire body is wasted in the sacrifice; the humans don't keep any of it for food. Whether they keep it or not doesn't change the fact that this is a barbaric act however.











Quote:
I don't think the bible says anywhere that animal sacrificing is a horrible sin. It simply states that it is no longer needed after Jesus did his sacrifice. I guess that means if Christians still wanted to do it to show honour and respect to God (as they do with the wine drinking and cracker eating), then they still could. But I doubt anyone with a shred of compassion would do that now would they?

I don't think a Christian would be showing anyone honor by sacrificing an animal, it would now be considered just cruel. Just the idea of someone who would call themselves a "Christian" and consider it seems like a contraditicon in identity.









Quote:
Can you Christians give me some justification for God demanding this horribly barbaric act to be required to achieve his forgiveness in the OT?

The other option would be human sacrifice, but that would probably be defeating the purpose. If you consider that God often commanded that whole tribes and people be anihilated, then the concept of animal sacrifice is mild. God creates life, it is in his power to take it, or require it, and restore it as he wills. The further we get away from that time in years, the more barbaric it may seem.


 
Author: jgh7 
Posted: 08/02/2007 01:57 PM 
 








achilles12604 wrote:








jgh7 wrote:
First let me apologize for not seeing the other post about animal sacrifice. However I think this one is more about the morals behind it rather than the point behind it.

Secondly, let me apologize for my ignorance about people eating part of the sacrifice (I haven't read the bible in a while)

Ok, now that I'm done apologizing for my stupidity, l'll start with the objections:P

This wasn't just killing animals one by one. There are stories of tens of thousands of animals being sacrificed in celebrations, and this was definately not done once a year. I'm fairly sure of that. There are many different types of sacrifices for different kinds of worship and atonement.

Humans kill animals to provide us with food, clothing, and other resources. I do think that the conditions we submit the animals to in the factories are in fact a horror. I support them being killed if it is done in a quick and painless way and they are given an adequate free-roaming life, and the purpose of their killing is to provide for our lives, not to worship a God.

There's a huge difference in killing an animal for sustenance, and killing an animal for worhsip, please tell me you can see that? It's wrong for the main purpose of killing something to be in worship for a God, it's utterly barbaric. You've pretty much brushed off the whole question by trying to change the topic to the meat industry today. I'm sure if there was an industry focused on killing animals as atonement and worhsip, then it would be outlawed and deemed as animal cruelty. Killing for the purpose of sacrifice is wrong, and while there is a difference between humans and animals, that does not change the fact that it is still sacrifice.



So in general I am getting that you feel that killing for food is acceptable but killing for worship is wrong.


I would ask you why? The end result is the same. There was a group of people. There was an animal. The animal ends up dead and the people end up full.



Why does adding a religious celebration suddenly make the act of ending the animal "evil"?


Also, I would like some sort of source on killing tens of thousands of animals.

Here are the passages I could find regarding actual numbers.

To offer two lambs every day (Numbers 28:3)





This is the only part that I can find regarding everyday sacrifice.

# The Kohen Gadol must bring a meal offering every day (Leviticus 6:13)
# To bring two additional lambs as burnt offerings on Shabbat (Numbers 28:9)
# To bring additional offerings on the New Month (Rosh Chodesh) (Numbers 28:11)
# To bring additional offerings on Passover (Numbers 28:19)
# To offer the wave offering from the meal of the new wheat (Leviticus 23:10)
# To bring additional offerings on Shavuot (Numbers 28:26)
# To bring two leaves to accompany the above sacrifice (Leviticus 23:17)
# To bring additional offerings on Rosh Hashana (Numbers 29:2)
# To bring additional offerings on Yom Kippur (Numbers 29:8)
# To bring additional offerings on Sukkot (Numbers 29:13)
# To bring additional offerings on Shmini Atzeret (Numbers 29:35)

These all appear only during festivals and special occasions.


So thus far, for daily sacrifice we are up to 730 per year for the entire nation of Israel. And these were eaten everyday by the priests.



"Then the king and all Israel with him offered sacrifices before the Lord. Solomon offered a sacrifice of fellowship offerings to the Lord: twenty-two thousand cattle and a hundred and twenty thousand sheep and goats." (1 Kings 8:62, 63)

Animals were sacrificed by the hundreds of thousands on special occasions. The mass murder apparently is pleasing to God.

"It is a burnt offering, an offering made by fire, an aroma pleasing to the Lord." (Leviticus 1:13)

That is how it ends for all of the burnt offerings. It is done to please the Lord, because the aroma of the animal's burning flesh somehow appeases God's wrath. It makes no sense to me, nor does any sort of sacrifice in religion. It's simply barbaric and doesn't change the fact that sin was comitted. Perhaps when I steal cookies from my mom I should make up for it by cutting a cat into pieces and burning its flesh.

Burnt offerings, sin offerings, and guilt offerings were instructed to be done whenever someone comitted those sins or wanted to worship. I don't see it anywhere instructing people that they were only allowed to do it on certain holidays. On the contrary, heres just one of many quotes:

Guilt Offering:
"When a person commits a violation and sins unintentionally in regard to any of the Lord's holy things, he is to bring to the Lord as a penalty a ram from the flock..." (Leviticus 5:15)

Obviously if people obeyed these rules, they would be giving sacrifices much more often than on holy days. They were instructed to do it whenever they sinned.

The ends do not justify the means. As I've stated previously, people killed animals with the intention of pleasing God and getting forgiveness from him. It is barbaric and cruel to think this way, and a religion that requires it, or used to require it is also cruel and barbaric. I don't know how to make this any more obvious for you.


 
Author: MikeH 
Posted: 08/02/2007 02:07 PM 
 








jgh7 wrote:
Animals were sacrificed by the hundreds of thousands on special occasions. The mass murder apparently is pleasing to God.



Murder? I guess if you consider killing animals in a factory murder, then this too would be murder, but most people don't.


 
Author: Scrotum 
Posted: 08/02/2007 02:13 PM 
 








MikeH wrote:








jgh7 wrote:
Animals were sacrificed by the hundreds of thousands on special occasions. The mass murder apparently is pleasing to God.



Murder? I guess if you consider killing animals in a factory murder, then this too would be murder, but most people don't.



We kill animals for food, and have ethics for how we do it, making sure it is painless and quick, this is not the same as SACRIFICING animals on the slab.

Do you have any opinion about these slaughters, or are we to do whatever we want with these animals? Animals can be tortured and kill, and you really dont care as they are not human, have i understood this correctly by your statement?


 
Author: jgh7 
Posted: 08/02/2007 02:22 PM 
 








MikeH wrote:








jgh7 wrote:
Animals were sacrificed by the hundreds of thousands on special occasions. The mass murder apparently is pleasing to God.



Murder? I guess if you consider killing animals in a factory murder, then this too would be murder, but most people don't.



Once again, another person has completely ignored the entire post and tried to turn the focus to meat factories. Instead of dodging the topic at hand, please read and comment on the rest of my statements and explain how these sacrifices are not barbaric and wrong.

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