Same sex marriage is not a church issue.

[Christianity in crisis?]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

[Jacob Simonsky]

5. Religions, doctrinal interpretations, and worldviews -- much like cultures and societies -- evolve. And this is a good thing.

And yes, yes to Ray Comfort, and yes to you -- I consider myself a good Christian.[/quote]



You are very correct in your summations of the human condition but, watch out, there are always those Christians who confusing thinking with satanic influence.

[Jacob Simonsky]

I honestly don't think that any devout christian is going to allow same sex marriage in any way shape or form.


Here someone writes an opinion regarding what christians might allow. But christians "allow" only within christianity. They nave no mandate or authority to "allow" when to do so interferes with other citizens who are not christians. In other words, Christian Sharia has no place in civil society.

[MyReality]

I honestly don't think that any devout christian is going to allow same sex marriage in any way shape or form.


Here someone writes an opinion regarding what christians might allow. But christians "allow" only within christianity. They nave no mandate or authority to "allow" when to do so interferes with other citizens who are not christians. In other words, Christian Sharia has no place in civil society.

When seen out of context yes. Try quoting more then one sentence when referring to someones opinion.

I will clarify that when i say "allow" it is regarding that Christians will not allow marriage in there churches or by their religion. Of course they will not allow it in any way if they can, as we constantly see in the media.

[Autodidact]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

There is. The constitution right now protects this right, which has been recognized and respected in every state where same-sex marriage is recognized.

So now do you support same-sex marriage?

btw, what about the rights of the churches who perform same-sex marriage right now? Should they be able to have these marriages recognized by the state? Are you bothered by the discrimination against their freedom of religion?

[Autodidact]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

It's a deal. You support same-sex marriage, and I'll support the right of the LDS Church not to perform them. Do we have a deal?

[Autodidact]

I disagree, it is tied in a small way to religion. Here is my view of it:

Same Sex marriage is immoral because it is against Gods will. Should it be legal, yes. I have no right to impose my belief on another person and vice versa. The reason it is tied in with religion is this. If gay marriage laws are passed there should be a law on the legislation that does not require all churches to mary gays. Churches should decide for themselves whether they will marry gays or not. I can see a gay couple suing a church if they wont marry them on the basis of discrimination.

That's a pretty tough statement to support: "Same sex marriage is immoral because it is against God's will". If it is againts God's will, then why are there same sex marriages found in the United States and throughout the world? Does the Mormon faith believe that God is unable to accomplish His will? Or do you believe the will of man is greater than the will of God? In one sense, you are saying that same sex marriages is against God's will; yet on the other sense, you are saying the churches should decide for themselves wheter they will marry gays or not. It is propaganda put out like organizations such as Focus on the Family and the Mormon Church to believe the law will force to conduct same sex marriages against their will. Why would a gay couple want to be married in a church who is against same sex marriages anyways? There are Christian churches who believe in same sex marriages.

The point isnt that its against gods will. My point is that gays will probably sue some churches for being "discriminatory." I have no right to impse my belief of gay marriage on them and they have no right to force me to mary them. Good question, I dont think that gays will want to be married under a church who doesnt support them. But then again, they might see this as a "golden opportunity" to sue churches and make easy money.

The recent New York legislation specifically protects and exempts every church not only for refusing to marry same-sex couples, but even from providing services such as adoption. Do you support this legislation?

[Autodidact]

God the Father was Adam who was created; Men on the moon according to Bringham Young... all LDS related beliefs? At least we can use Scripture to support polygamy. Did you know Abraham married his half-sister (blood related)? Back to the thread topic. ... the Mormon propositon agenda to block same sex marriage is driven by the theological distncives of Mormonism... which are mutually exclusive from historic Christianity. If Evangelical Christians understood this point, then they would think twice for working with Mormons on banning sex sex marriage. I think it's funny for religious people to legistate laws based on religious beliefs. If we want to go that route as religious believers, we should make the 10 commandments as mandatory law for our society.

Again, thats not our beliefs. Yes we do differ from other christian beliefs on our view of salvation. You seem to be downtalking my religion a lot here, your focusing on what my church is doing rather than trying to discuss the actual OP. My respnse to the OP had nothing to do with mormon beliefs but rather with the chances of discriminatory lawsuits.

Religious laws have no place in the government. Yes, the LDS church's proposition agenda is driven by our beliefs, is that no different than any other religion?

Then why did you bring them up? Isn't your idea of God's will based on your Mormon beliefs?

[Autodidact]

My religion is fighting for their beliefs, they are allowed to do whatever they want. Then if god is in all governments according to his will, then how is the conflict over homosexuality not a church issue?

That's my whole point of this thread. Your Mormon belief or religion is wrong for non-Mormons since they are non-Mormons. So why should a Mormon belief prevent non-Mormons to receive marriage benefits which others have? It is simply ungodly discrimination. No one is forcing you to be a non-Mormon with non-Mormon beliefs. No one is telling you to have sex outside of marriage as law. It's quite an ungodly view when you think about it... discrimination based on religion, race and even sexual orientation. Since we both profess to be Christians, please tell me where in the Bible reveals that same sex marriages are prohibitted. Or, quote a verse from Jesus condemning same sex marriages or homosexuality. Remember, there are Christian churches who gladly preform same sex marriages.

thats exactly what im trying to say...I have no right to impose my belief on a another person. Same vice versa.

So you support the right of gay couples to marry?

[Autodidact]

Same sex marriage is a Church issue. It was first initiated by the church and has for centuries been guided by the church. If it wasn't then why are we having this conversation. What has happened is that the major part of the Western population has deterred away from the Christian culture. So much so that we can now say that we are no longer a Christian society. To put this in perspective i myself am a Christian man who places marriage 2nd below God. So in saying this, before i get married i look into the biblical perspectives of marriage so that i will get it right in relationship with God and my partner and my children, Biblically. I don't have sex as i am waiting for marriage and i see it as a covernant arrangement with God. To get married is a form of worship for me. So in saying this i have a Chistian perspective, but compare this to one of the cultures that lived next to the Israelites who worshiped and practiced their way of life on top of hills and at home. They practiced orgies and homosexual acts while cross dressing and being drunk and so much more. These deferences was mentioned and portrayed and ultimately contrasted throughout the bible. So in saying this marriage is culturally a major part of being a Christian and is also legally. And for a gay person they are a completely different cultures. So if one culture picks on another culture, that is called racism. I have a gay sister who i love immensly. When i go to a gay bar, if there is something that i cannot handle, i just leave, and thats being respectful. So why be disrespectful to me by forcing upon my culture, which is the second most valuable part of my cultures life, something that which is not and get upset about it . Why put up a gay flag and claim it your territory when for 1000's of centuries it was my nations turf. When the English settled in Australia they did what you are trying to do now, but the difference is that today Astralians dont get upset about it and force the English views back upon them. Thats racism. Our cultures were different back then and still is, so what are you playing at and why do you pick on a different culture. Most of westerners are not Christians. They may claim that they are but they are not. It is obvious by the way i live my life and the way you live yours. So please, if gay people want a contract' put it under a different form that is something completely different. Like Baal worship. If you look into the way the Israelites developed their legal system they tryed to center it around the biblical ethical system. They were not perfect as stoning was mentioned,( but thats another matter). But the western governments have tryed to do the same even though it is still not perfect. There needs to be changes legally within marriage , but hey thats our problem not yours. Remember we started it. So please don't be racist, or direspectfull. Homosexuality and Christianity is like chalk and cheese. So why? this has gone to far. Sorry but this is the truth.

Is someone trying to make you marry a man? Are they prohibiting you from practicing marriage as you believe it should be? Why is it your concern what someone else does, as long as they don't force you to do it too?

[Honibaz]

I believe same sex marriage is not a church issue when it comes to the law. Christians who try to ban same sex marriage are wrong, and should be consistent with the separation of church and state. BTW... I am an evangelical Christian against forms of legalized discrimination.

So, perhaps a quotation from the Constitution which claims there's an actual separation of church and state would back up your premise.

<*braces for avalanche of establishment clause innuendos*>