Invitation to discuss "Grace and Truth"

[Volbrigade]

Greetings!

I've been an intermittent and infrequent poster here for a few years -- a regular on another board, where I have become somewhat weary of the same conversations (the event or article du jour being the only source of variety) with the same people; most of whom I refer to as "Whateverists": people who have accepted their lifelong indoctrination into materialist presuppositions, and who have developed vague and incoherent beliefs in any and everything except the Truth of Jesus Christ (basically, as I have pointed out many times, their god is randomness, which propelled unguided processes that have culminated with the manifestation of that god in the flesh. It is an incarnate god that greets them in the bathroom mirror every morning).

So, I return here in peace, looking for a little interesting dialogue, preferably with fellow believers (conversation with the neo-pagan unbelievers generally reaching a point of diminishing returns within a few exchanges ).

Being pretty unfamiliar with the protocols here, I submitted a post called "Grace and Truth" on the "Christianity and Apologetics" forum; only to have it removed to the "Random Ramblings" discussion area.

I have no quibble with that, but I thought I would invite anyone who might be interested to peruse the topic, and share any thoughts or comments.

Here is the URL, which I will attempt to make clickable (not sure if I'll be successful, however... )

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=24044

[otseng]

I generally agree with what you said in that thread.

Myself, I do not regard either general revelation or special revelation to trump the other. I believe both are from God and so both are important. If there is a conflict between science and theology, it is because of our lack of understanding of one or the other or both.

[Volbrigade]

I generally agree with what you said in that thread.

Myself, I do not regard either general revelation or special revelation to trump the other. I believe both are from God and so both are important. If there is a conflict between science and theology, it is because of our lack of understanding of one or the other or both.

And I likewise generally agree with what you say here -- and consider it to be particularly well said.

(I could say that I regard special revelation as holding the trump card over general revelation; but that would probably be hair-splitting to most; and doesn't really apply within the context of what you are conveying, I think. Which is [to me -- correct me if I'm wrong] that we have "two books" -- Nature, and The Bible -- which tell one story[?] ).

[otseng]

Which is [to me -- correct me if I'm wrong] that we have "two books" -- Nature, and The Bible -- which tell one story[?] ).

Correct. They both tell one story since they have the same author. But, our interpretations of nature (science) and our interpretations of the Bible (theology) can be wrong and thus can be in conflict with each other.

[Volbrigade]

Which is [to me -- correct me if I'm wrong] that we have "two books" -- Nature, and The Bible -- which tell one story[?] ).

Correct. They both tell one story since they have the same author. But, our interpretations of nature (science) and our interpretations of the Bible (theology) can be wrong and thus can be in conflict with each other.

Amen! Which is precisely the focus of my "Grace and Truth" post. We are to strive for truth in all things, guided by the Holy Spirit, so as to be in communion with the Truth of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Agreed?

In my opinion, both truth, and Truth, are ever expanding; encompassing all that we learn that corresponds to it; and all that we "learn" that doesn't is, by definition, not true.

[we-live-now]

Greetings!

I've been an intermittent and infrequent poster here for a few years -- a regular on another board, where I have become somewhat weary of the same conversations (the event or article du jour being the only source of variety) with the same people; most of whom I refer to as "Whateverists": people who have accepted their lifelong indoctrination into materialist presuppositions, and who have developed vague and incoherent beliefs in any and everything except the Truth of Jesus Christ (basically, as I have pointed out many times, their god is randomness, which propelled unguided processes that have culminated with the manifestation of that god in the flesh. It is an incarnate god that greets them in the bathroom mirror every morning).

So, I return here in peace, looking for a little interesting dialogue, preferably with fellow believers (conversation with the neo-pagan unbelievers generally reaching a point of diminishing returns within a few exchanges ).

Being pretty unfamiliar with the protocols here, I submitted a post called "Grace and Truth" on the "Christianity and Apologetics" forum; only to have it removed to the "Random Ramblings" discussion area.

I have no quibble with that, but I thought I would invite anyone who might be interested to peruse the topic, and share any thoughts or comments.

Here is the URL, which I will attempt to make clickable (not sure if I'll be successful, however... )

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=24044

Wow, them's is some fancy "five-dollar words"! Hope you don't mind a little ole country boy putten his 2 cents in...

I do believe that Grace AND truth go together and are inseparable. Also, we should NOT confuse truth with the Law. The LAW came from Moses but grace AND truth came BY/IN Jesus Christ. By "truth" I believe it means the true-reality whereas we are currently living in a shadow of the true reality of the spirit where God is. I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ. In other words, we see our true self by looking at him. That is what God says. It is not by trying to live by the law out of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Man was never meant to create his own righteousness. He was meant to put on God's righteousness who is Christ.

AMEN?

we-live-now

[Volbrigade]

Greetings!

I've been an intermittent and infrequent poster here for a few years -- a regular on another board, where I have become somewhat weary of the same conversations (the event or article du jour being the only source of variety) with the same people; most of whom I refer to as "Whateverists": people who have accepted their lifelong indoctrination into materialist presuppositions, and who have developed vague and incoherent beliefs in any and everything except the Truth of Jesus Christ (basically, as I have pointed out many times, their god is randomness, which propelled unguided processes that have culminated with the manifestation of that god in the flesh. It is an incarnate god that greets them in the bathroom mirror every morning).

So, I return here in peace, looking for a little interesting dialogue, preferably with fellow believers (conversation with the neo-pagan unbelievers generally reaching a point of diminishing returns within a few exchanges ).

Being pretty unfamiliar with the protocols here, I submitted a post called "Grace and Truth" on the "Christianity and Apologetics" forum; only to have it removed to the "Random Ramblings" discussion area.

I have no quibble with that, but I thought I would invite anyone who might be interested to peruse the topic, and share any thoughts or comments.

Here is the URL, which I will attempt to make clickable (not sure if I'll be successful, however... )

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=24044

Wow, them's is some fancy "five-dollar words"! Hope you don't mind a little ole country boy putten his 2 cents in...

I do believe that Grace AND truth go together and are inseparable. Also, we should NOT confuse truth with the Law. The LAW came from Moses but grace AND truth came BY/IN Jesus Christ. By "truth" I believe it means the true-reality whereas we are currently living in a shadow of the true reality of the spirit where God is. I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ. In other words, we see our true self by looking at him. That is what God says. It is not by trying to live by the law out of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Man was never meant to create his own righteousness. He was meant to put on God's righteousness who is Christ.

AMEN?

we-live-now

And AMEN, WLN! And may I say, some of the shrewdest, most highly-educated minds I have ever encountered belonged to good ol' "country boys" -- who generally are not above some good-natured sandbagging, as many an opponent in pool, golf, or debate has discovered, to their chagrin.


I apologize if you find my vocabulary in any sense extravagant. I have a love of the English language, and of using words with precision, in an effort to add nuance. The more words to choose from, the subtler the shading, like a painter adding hues to his palette. It has been said that there are no true synonyms; that words of similar meaning carry a variance in connotation and context, no matter how slight. The challenge, of course, is to use vocabulary to illuminate meaning; the danger is in creating a muddy mess on the "canvas". And, as also has been truly said:

"Plain English -- everybody loves it, demands it -- from the other fellow." (Jacques Barzun)

Enough on that.

On to your worthwhile comments.

On those, I have little response, since I am in agreement with them. It's always easier -- and generally, more fun -- to mount a polemic, than to express accord that goes beyond the one-word "amen", or "ditto".

But I feel a response is called for here, if only in the interest of acknowledging our agreement, in terms of a couple of points you brought up.

First: interesting point in regard to The Law. As you know, it was given to condemn and convict us of sin. Let me offer this, as an opinion, and a possible point of discussion: is The Law a "subset" of the Truth, the way our physical, 4-dimensional (3 "spacial", plus "time") reality is a subset of the totality that we refer to as "spiritual"? Is that at least one sense in which Jesus Christ is the "fulfillment" of The Law, as well as the "completion" of reality?

Second: you wrote, "I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ."

I believe this is what is referred to by John in 1 John 3:2 -- one of the most exciting promises in Scripture:

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

When we are raised in "incorruption", we will possess those qualities that He enjoys in His glorified state. They may be referred to -- at a minimum, and for wnat of a better word -- as "hyperdimensional".

Also, in our glorified state, the war between the flesh and the spirit will be over. A war is only ended by the victory of one side over the other. Our resurrected bodies will be in obedience to our spirits -- which are already in obedience to His, as a gift of our salvation -- and not in opposition and rebellion, as our fleshly bodies are.

Amen?

Grace, Truth, and Peace to you.

[we-live-now]

Greetings!

I've been an intermittent and infrequent poster here for a few years -- a regular on another board, where I have become somewhat weary of the same conversations (the event or article du jour being the only source of variety) with the same people; most of whom I refer to as "Whateverists": people who have accepted their lifelong indoctrination into materialist presuppositions, and who have developed vague and incoherent beliefs in any and everything except the Truth of Jesus Christ (basically, as I have pointed out many times, their god is randomness, which propelled unguided processes that have culminated with the manifestation of that god in the flesh. It is an incarnate god that greets them in the bathroom mirror every morning).

So, I return here in peace, looking for a little interesting dialogue, preferably with fellow believers (conversation with the neo-pagan unbelievers generally reaching a point of diminishing returns within a few exchanges ).

Being pretty unfamiliar with the protocols here, I submitted a post called "Grace and Truth" on the "Christianity and Apologetics" forum; only to have it removed to the "Random Ramblings" discussion area.

I have no quibble with that, but I thought I would invite anyone who might be interested to peruse the topic, and share any thoughts or comments.

Here is the URL, which I will attempt to make clickable (not sure if I'll be successful, however... )

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=24044

Wow, them's is some fancy "five-dollar words"! Hope you don't mind a little ole country boy putten his 2 cents in...

I do believe that Grace AND truth go together and are inseparable. Also, we should NOT confuse truth with the Law. The LAW came from Moses but grace AND truth came BY/IN Jesus Christ. By "truth" I believe it means the true-reality whereas we are currently living in a shadow of the true reality of the spirit where God is. I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ. In other words, we see our true self by looking at him. That is what God says. It is not by trying to live by the law out of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Man was never meant to create his own righteousness. He was meant to put on God's righteousness who is Christ.

AMEN?

we-live-now

And AMEN, WLN! And may I say, some of the shrewdest, most highly-educated minds I have ever encountered belonged to good ol' "country boys" -- who generally are not above some good-natured sandbagging, as many an opponent in pool, golf, or debate has discovered, to their chagrin.


I apologize if you find my vocabulary in any sense extravagant. I have a love of the English language, and of using words with precision, in an effort to add nuance. The more words to choose from, the subtler the shading, like a painter adding hues to his palette. It has been said that there are no true synonyms; that words of similar meaning carry a variance in connotation and context, no matter how slight. The challenge, of course, is to use vocabulary to illuminate meaning; the danger is in creating a muddy mess on the "canvas". And, as also has been truly said:

"Plain English -- everybody loves it, demands it -- from the other fellow." (Jacques Barzun)

Enough on that.

On to your worthwhile comments.

On those, I have little response, since I am in agreement with them. It's always easier -- and generally, more fun -- to mount a polemic, than to express accord that goes beyond the one-word "amen", or "ditto".

But I feel a response is called for here, if only in the interest of acknowledging our agreement, in terms of a couple of points you brought up.

First: interesting point in regard to The Law. As you know, it was given to condemn and convict us of sin. Let me offer this, as an opinion, and a possible point of discussion: is The Law a "subset" of the Truth, the way our physical, 4-dimensional (3 "spacial", plus "time") reality is a subset of the totality that we refer to as "spiritual"? Is that at least one sense in which Jesus Christ is the "fulfillment" of The Law, as well as the "completion" of reality?

Second: you wrote, "I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ."

I believe this is what is referred to by John in 1 John 3:2 -- one of the most exciting promises in Scripture:

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

When we are raised in "incorruption", we will possess those qualities that He enjoys in His glorified state. They may be referred to -- at a minimum, and for wnat of a better word -- as "hyperdimensional".

Also, in our glorified state, the war between the flesh and the spirit will be over. A war is only ended by the victory of one side over the other. Our resurrected bodies will be in obedience to our spirits -- which are already in obedience to His, as a gift of our salvation -- and not in opposition and rebellion, as our fleshly bodies are.

Amen?

Grace, Truth, and Peace to you.

Hi Volbrigade... wow, I don't know what your background or formal education is in, but you sure have some deep thoughts and extravagant words. I enjoyed your response and am in complete and very excited agreement in what you said about 1 John 3:2! Isn't that amazing!?! So many Christians are blinded to the true reality of what scripture really teaches. "As he is so are we in THIS World"! Doesn't that just floor you? I know it greatly humbles me yet makes me very excited about digging deeper and deeper into the revelation of Christ and our real selves! Right now in these darkened bodies we can only behold him as if in a dirty mirror but on that day we shall see him as he is and we will be like him. Wow!

I wholehearted agree about the purpose of the law - to show us where we have come short of being who we really are through our own efforts. We were to never live by the law and try to obtain our own righteousness. We are to put on Christ and I see you agree. Still, there is so much of Christianity that is blind to that and teaches law. I have never thought about the law being a subset of the truth but we do know that Paul said the law is spiritual yet we are in fleshly bodies and that is why we can't fulfill or uphold it ourselves. Thus, I do believe that Christ does perfectly and completely fulfill the law inside us in our TRUE inner man.

My belief is that the only thing that holds a true believer back is his fallen, disconnected, spiritually darkened body (and brain). All we need to do in order to know truth fully is to be extracted or leave our natural brains and bodies. We are a fully perfect new creation Spirit-being who is still in the shell of the old creation in Adam. I believe God purposely did it that way so none of us could know the truth unless HE reveals it inside us via the Spirit of Christ. Check this verse out, it is pretty amazing to me:

God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.

I believe this refers to all humans being born into a body that was disconnected from him and darkened Spiritually unable to know God at all. Thus, we were "in a prison of our own disobedience". However, the last part of the verse is even more astounding WHY he did that - "so he could be merciful to all!".

I believe our bodies are part of the "domain of darkness" that Christ rescued us from when we believed. We were transferred from our bodies (realm of the flesh) and into the realm of the Spirit yet still using the body for now. Once a person believes, all his sins are no longer connected to him but are quarantined and condemned in the body to die with the natural body. God has already seen them get tossed into the eternal garbage dump and burned! I truly believe that God sees the REAL us inside that does NOT sin and can NOT sin, but it is only the power of sin that still resides in the flesh (natural body) that causes sin to still crop up in our lives. I truly believe that he knows if we didn't still see any sin, we would think WE did something awesome and brag about it. However, NONE if it is counted against us and it's really gone from his eternal perspective outside of time.

Anyway, I hope I didn't take the conversation to a different place you wanted to. I find these things VERY interesting.

God bless,

we-live-now

[Volbrigade]

Greetings!

I've been an intermittent and infrequent poster here for a few years -- a regular on another board, where I have become somewhat weary of the same conversations (the event or article du jour being the only source of variety) with the same people; most of whom I refer to as "Whateverists": people who have accepted their lifelong indoctrination into materialist presuppositions, and who have developed vague and incoherent beliefs in any and everything except the Truth of Jesus Christ (basically, as I have pointed out many times, their god is randomness, which propelled unguided processes that have culminated with the manifestation of that god in the flesh. It is an incarnate god that greets them in the bathroom mirror every morning).

So, I return here in peace, looking for a little interesting dialogue, preferably with fellow believers (conversation with the neo-pagan unbelievers generally reaching a point of diminishing returns within a few exchanges ).

Being pretty unfamiliar with the protocols here, I submitted a post called "Grace and Truth" on the "Christianity and Apologetics" forum; only to have it removed to the "Random Ramblings" discussion area.

I have no quibble with that, but I thought I would invite anyone who might be interested to peruse the topic, and share any thoughts or comments.

Here is the URL, which I will attempt to make clickable (not sure if I'll be successful, however... )

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... hp?t=24044

Wow, them's is some fancy "five-dollar words"! Hope you don't mind a little ole country boy putten his 2 cents in...

I do believe that Grace AND truth go together and are inseparable. Also, we should NOT confuse truth with the Law. The LAW came from Moses but grace AND truth came BY/IN Jesus Christ. By "truth" I believe it means the true-reality whereas we are currently living in a shadow of the true reality of the spirit where God is. I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ. In other words, we see our true self by looking at him. That is what God says. It is not by trying to live by the law out of the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil. Man was never meant to create his own righteousness. He was meant to put on God's righteousness who is Christ.

AMEN?

we-live-now

And AMEN, WLN! And may I say, some of the shrewdest, most highly-educated minds I have ever encountered belonged to good ol' "country boys" -- who generally are not above some good-natured sandbagging, as many an opponent in pool, golf, or debate has discovered, to their chagrin.


I apologize if you find my vocabulary in any sense extravagant. I have a love of the English language, and of using words with precision, in an effort to add nuance. The more words to choose from, the subtler the shading, like a painter adding hues to his palette. It has been said that there are no true synonyms; that words of similar meaning carry a variance in connotation and context, no matter how slight. The challenge, of course, is to use vocabulary to illuminate meaning; the danger is in creating a muddy mess on the "canvas". And, as also has been truly said:

"Plain English -- everybody loves it, demands it -- from the other fellow." (Jacques Barzun)

Enough on that.

On to your worthwhile comments.

On those, I have little response, since I am in agreement with them. It's always easier -- and generally, more fun -- to mount a polemic, than to express accord that goes beyond the one-word "amen", or "ditto".

But I feel a response is called for here, if only in the interest of acknowledging our agreement, in terms of a couple of points you brought up.

First: interesting point in regard to The Law. As you know, it was given to condemn and convict us of sin. Let me offer this, as an opinion, and a possible point of discussion: is The Law a "subset" of the Truth, the way our physical, 4-dimensional (3 "spacial", plus "time") reality is a subset of the totality that we refer to as "spiritual"? Is that at least one sense in which Jesus Christ is the "fulfillment" of The Law, as well as the "completion" of reality?

Second: you wrote, "I believe by "truth" we are told that our TRUE self is as Christ."

I believe this is what is referred to by John in 1 John 3:2 -- one of the most exciting promises in Scripture:

"Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is."

When we are raised in "incorruption", we will possess those qualities that He enjoys in His glorified state. They may be referred to -- at a minimum, and for wnat of a better word -- as "hyperdimensional".

Also, in our glorified state, the war between the flesh and the spirit will be over. A war is only ended by the victory of one side over the other. Our resurrected bodies will be in obedience to our spirits -- which are already in obedience to His, as a gift of our salvation -- and not in opposition and rebellion, as our fleshly bodies are.

Amen?

Grace, Truth, and Peace to you.

Hi Volbrigade... wow, I don't know what your background or formal education is in, but you sure have some deep thoughts and extravagant words. I enjoyed your response and am in complete and very excited agreement in what you said about 1 John 3:2! Isn't that amazing!?! So many Christians are blinded to the true reality of what scripture really teaches. "As he is so are we in THIS World"! Doesn't that just floor you? I know it greatly humbles me yet makes me very excited about digging deeper and deeper into the revelation of Christ and our real selves! Right now in these darkened bodies we can only behold him as if in a dirty mirror but on that day we shall see him as he is and we will be like him. Wow!

Thank you for the kind words, WLN (as a note, I'm going to put my remarks in olive, for clarity. I still have a ways to go as far as figuring out the "quote" formatting ). There is nothing better than when brothers are in unison when gazing at Jesus. And since we are in agreement, is is obvious that you have been blessed by, and availed yourself of, some excellent and doctrinally sound teaching.

I want to piggyback on the part I put in bold, by pointing out what so many us lose sight of: that our eternal lives begin in THIS world, with the acceptance of God's grace and mercy. They continue after we have been "sown" in corruption, and raised in incorruption.

I hold to the doctrine of the Harpazo ("The Rapture"), that states that not all of us shall taste death.

I wholehearted agree about the purpose of the law - to show us where we have come short of being who we really are through our own efforts. We were to never live by the law and try to obtain our own righteousness. We are to put on Christ and I see you agree. Still, there is so much of Christianity that is blind to that and teaches law. I have never thought about the law being a subset of the truth but we do know that Paul said the law is spiritual yet we are in fleshly bodies and that is why we can't fulfill or uphold it ourselves. Thus, I do believe that Christ does perfectly and completely fulfill the law inside us in our TRUE inner man.

This is a huge area of study. I think that the simple take away is that under The Law, the blood of innocent animals was constantly required in atonement for our sins. Jesus is the perfect sacrifice, once for all. We are permanently, forever, "once for all" cleansed of our sins by His shed blood. However, we do acquire the "dirt" of the world in our daily lives, due to our residing in the "old man", as you correctly refer to, below. That is why we need the "daily washing" of scripture, devotion, confession, and repentance -- the "Christian's bar of soap."

As far as the part of Christianity that "still teaches the Law", I am afraid you are correct. It is called "legalism", and it is deadly. There was a battle over it early on in the church, with many Jewish Christians insisting that Gentile converts need to follow the Levitical Law. The matter was settled at the Council of Jerusalem, in Acts 15.

My belief is that the only thing that holds a true believer back is his fallen, disconnected, spiritually darkened body (and brain). All we need to do in order to know truth fully is to be extracted or leave our natural brains and bodies. We are a fully perfect new creation Spirit-being who is still in the shell of the old creation in Adam. I believe God purposely did it that way so none of us could know the truth unless HE reveals it inside us via the Spirit of Christ. Check this verse out, it is pretty amazing to me:

God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.

I believe this refers to all humans being born into a body that was disconnected from him and darkened Spiritually unable to know God at all. Thus, we were "in a prison of our own disobedience". However, the last part of the verse is even more astounding WHY he did that - "so he could be merciful to all!".

I believe our bodies are part of the "domain of darkness" that Christ rescued us from when we believed. We were transferred from our bodies (realm of the flesh) and into the realm of the Spirit yet still using the body for now. Once a person believes, all his sins are no longer connected to him but are quarantined and condemned in the body to die with the natural body. God has already seen them get tossed into the eternal garbage dump and burned! I truly believe that God sees the REAL us inside that does NOT sin and can NOT sin, but it is only the power of sin that still resides in the flesh (natural body) that causes sin to still crop up in our lives. I truly believe that he knows if we didn't still see any sin, we would think WE did something awesome and brag about it. However, NONE if it is counted against us and it's really gone from his eternal perspective outside of time.

Anyway, I hope I didn't take the conversation to a different place you wanted to. I find these things VERY interesting.

God bless,

we-live-now

Excellent points, in my opinion, WLN. I have heard it put this way: once we are saved, when God looks at us, He sees Jesus. Our sins are covered by His shed blood. That whereas before, we "sinned because we were sinners"; that as a "new creation" in Christ, we are no longer sinners, though we do still sin in our flesh. Which, again, is why that daily cleansing is so important, for our "missing the mark" both by commission and omission.

That is what is called "sanctification", and is one of the three parts of salvation: "I am saved; I am being saved; I will be saved."

Justification is when we are forgiven by grace through faith; we are saved from the consequences of sin.
Sanctification is being saved from the power of sin.
Glorification is when we will be saved from the presence of sin.

[we-live-now]

[Replying to post 9 by Volbrigade]

Hey Volbrigate... thanks for the comments! I agree it is VERY hard to find other believers who actually see the finished work of Christ! Most are still trying to finish it themselves and thus are not under the new covenant of Grace. They are still under the old covenant of law. I actually think this is very dangerous ground according to Hebrews!

Paul White teaches the finished work and I love his material as does Joseph Prince and Pastor Clark Whitten of Grace Church, Orlando. Another good one is Steve McVey. Ever listen to any of these?

I believe it get's EVEN BETTER than we current think! I believe that it's even better than being "covered" by his blood. I believe we are a whole new creation inside of him in the true spirit realm. We were born in the natural realm of the flesh in the sins of our body which was in darkness and totally disconnected from God. It is this disconnection that causes us to sin and not vice versa. We sin because we were born sinners (separated) and we didn't become sinners when we sinned. Great thing to think about and ask the Lord about. When we believed he transferred our true spirit man from the body (natural realm) into the actual spiritual realm because it became ONE with Christ himself. God looks at the TRUE us and does NOT see any of the natural part that we are still using. He only sees the truly righteous holy, and FULLY sanctified part that is in Christ and as Christ!

See, darkness covers the earth and thick darkness is over the peoples, but the LORD rises upon you and his glory appears over you.

God has placed all people into the prison of their own disobedience so that he could be merciful to all people.

All of humanity was placed in darkness on purpose. God has a reason for this.

In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.

Then Jesus again spoke to them, saying, "I am the Light of the world; he who follows Me will not walk in the darkness, but will have the Light of life."

God was going to pour out his Spirit via Christ over the entire world after his death so he could light up people's hearts to the truth of the gospel and reveal the father to them personally from within. Without him doing this, they could NOT know God.

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'

Once they believe, they are no longer a fleshly being on earth, but a spiritual being that is in a new realm of the spirit. They are fully sanctified because none of their being exists in the flesh anymore. They need only renew their mind to who they really are now so they can manifest their true self.

For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,

AMEN! This is SO AMAZING when he shows it to us. He moved our spirit man from the human body (natural realm) into the true Spirit realm inside Christ himself. This is true right now! That is why we are "aliens" now and "foreigners". Our old man in the flesh is DEAD. sin only exists in the flesh or our natural body, but NOT in the true and real US! That is how he can say our sins are removed "as far as the east is from the west". That is how far apart these two realms are.

Wow! I LOVE to remind myself of what he did.

we-live-now