Quote micatala:
Atheists are not all of one belief. There are not 'churches of atheism' that teach atheist doctrine. They are not bound be common doctrines except for the commonality of disbelieving that God exists.
AlAyeti:
This is not an accurate statement. It is a cop-out not in keeping with presenting a logical argument.
I claim that Catholics are responsible for almost every Christian atrocity, or that it is not following the Gospels to kill people in the name of Christ, and I don't get of the hook.
No, Al, it is not a copout. I am simply saying that, in my view, you are comparing apples to oranges.
I have added up the numbers of people killed in Christian actions pointed out by the Persnickity Platypus, and those killed in Atheist-Secular actions. Two and half million over two thousand years compared to hundreds of millions being murdered by atheism and secualrism since the Enlightenment.
I always have this comeback to the bobbleheadism of the anti-Christian argument. The Christians did not "start" the Crusades. The Muslims did. Why can't people that hate Christianity get that right?
In addition, if you go back to my full post you will see that I at least would let you off the hook to the extent that I think you are correct in saying that we should not blame all Christians for the crimes of the few. Now, I would not say it is fair to blame all Catholics either, for crimes of the few, but I'll leave it at that.
To judge the guilt od anyone is to present evidence. Catholicism and atheism does not look good to makind. Just use evidence.
My main point continues to be that it is not appropriate to smear an entire group of people for crimes that are committed by only a few people. The only time I could see this being appropriate is if the entire group identity was tied up in or included particular 'criminal acts.'
Humanism IS an religion. Study its history.
One example might be the KKK, a group whose entire mission includes the idea of oppressing, if not annihilating, black people. It is reasonably fair to criticize any KKK member for the crimes committed by the people of that organization because the organization is arguably largely criminal or terrorist in nature.
The KKK is an Aryan religious movement. It can be shown by evidence to not be following the Gospels.
It is absolutley unfair, unsubstantiated, and false to say the same of atheists, just as it is to say the same of Christians.
In history, where Atheism has gone, millions and millions have been slaughterd. That is following the evidence.
In both cases, you have a large group of people (well, much, much larger in the case of Christianity) that are very diverse in their beliefs, outlooks, and actions, even though there is some commonality of belief (or non-belief) as well.
China, Russia, N. Korea, Cuba, SE Asian communist countries, ALL Athiest. Certainly what would qualify as a VERY large group of people. Billion-plus I'm getting on my calculator.
In neither case does the 'group identify' have anything to do per se with the atrocities or crimes that have been cited in an attempt to smear the groups.
I'm feeling pretty comfortable in front of a healthy minded jury.
Stalin may be an atheist, but his crimes had everything to do with his own personal megalomania and paranoia and nothing to do with his atheism.
A mind that actually dwells in chaos is going to lean towards megalomania.
The vast majority of atheists are peaceful, law-abiding citizens, just as is the case with Christians.
I agree with you. But, Atheists en mases continue to perpetuate the myth of Christian atrocities without any reference to other peoples that have killed their victims in millions and millions. I just point out facts. Anyone can see from my "judgmental" perspective, that neither Christians that kill . . . or Muslims, Atheists, Secualrists (or anyone else), that continue to murder to this day, get off my hook.
On to another point. I criticized you earlier for your lack of logic. Here is another example.
AlAyeti wrote:
How many MTV employees are Liberals? That now means Democrat.
This is just as logical as saying
Quote:
How many KKK members are conservatives? That now means Christian (or Republican)
in other words, there is little if any logic in either of these statements.
Conservatives as we can see with the Miers Supremem Court nomination, will hold each other accountable. Any Democrats telling children not to watch the filth on MTV?
The KKK are not welcomed onto the stage at the GOP convention or their money in Republican coffers. While pimps and whores literally dance on stage for Democrat causes, with Presidential candidates. Rappers are good role models to whom? Prison inmates?
Not to repeat myself, but what is wrong in suggesting that Christians in general follow the following advice?
micatala wrote:
Even if some atheists try to lay the blame for the crimes of particular Christians at the feet of all, in my view, we as Christians should 'turn the other cheek' at least to the extent that we do not respond in kind by throwing the same type of illogical and untrue assertions back.
It is logical and fair to compare the worth of belief systems. Atheism is intolerant of any opposing views and yet demands diversity of others. I as a freethinking American, do not tolerate that. Why should I? Now, if they ramp up their hatred to full scale genocide like the Muslims are, to make Christians choose life or Christ, then I pray, that I will go like a lamb to the fate that awits me.
Yes, I think it is appropriate to say that not all Christians are responsible for the crimes of the few. BUt then, leave it at that.
Please tell that to the bobbleheads at infidels.org and the ubiquitous atheists that teach our youth in just about every College and University in the world.
Whe I watch a person smash down a building without cleaning it up, and they b-tch at me for not picking up a gum wrapper I dropped, yeah, I'm going tp point out their hypocrisy.
But the spirit with which you approach the issue is indeed the right one.
Now, those Democrats in the Baptist Church here in question, do you think mthey see anything wrong with Democrat atrocities? If they bdon't then out they go!
