Does Gay Marriage threaten traditional Family Values?

[McCulloch]

I don't think gay marriage is immoral by any means, I just oppose it because I support traditional family values.

But gay marriage does not harm nor does it challenge traditional family values. I don't want to close down the Indian restaurant up the road because I like Italian food.

It challenges the future of the nuclear family, which is generally one mother and one father and a # of children. Anything that does not include these factors (such as single motherhood, foster homes, divorces, and gay marriage) should be avoided in order to preserve traditional family values.

Does Gay Marriage threaten traditional Family Values?
Are Traditional Family Values in any danger of not being preserved?

[Kuan]

She is referring to the persecution of the early members of our church. They were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois till they pioneered across the country to Utah. Then while in Utah, not a part of the U.S. at the time, the U.S. invaded and attacked us.

So the Mormons faced persecution for their religion and their marriage practices. Therefore they should sympathize with those who also may be persecuted by religious dogma for their marriage practices. So the Mormon church stands in solidarity against the foes of same sex marriage. Good to hear it!

Neither of us are arguing that same sex marriage should be illegal. We just dont want to have it forced upon us.

[McCulloch]

She is referring to the persecution of the early members of our church. They were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois till they pioneered across the country to Utah. Then while in Utah, not a part of the U.S. at the time, the U.S. invaded and attacked us.

So the Mormons faced persecution for their religion and their marriage practices. Therefore they should sympathize with those who also may be persecuted by religious dogma for their marriage practices. So the Mormon church stands in solidarity against the foes of same sex marriage. Good to hear it!

Neither of us are arguing that same sex marriage should be illegal. We just don't want to have it forced upon us.

We agree. I would not want to be forced to marry some guy. I would not want to be forced to share my wife with a second husband, nor would I want to be forced to take a second wife.

So why is it that some people claim that gay marriage threatens traditional family values? I just don't see how my heterosexual monogamous family with children and in-laws is in any way threatened by Denise & Monica and their three kids.

[Kuan]

She is referring to the persecution of the early members of our church. They were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois till they pioneered across the country to Utah. Then while in Utah, not a part of the U.S. at the time, the U.S. invaded and attacked us.

So the Mormons faced persecution for their religion and their marriage practices. Therefore they should sympathize with those who also may be persecuted by religious dogma for their marriage practices. So the Mormon church stands in solidarity against the foes of same sex marriage. Good to hear it!

Neither of us are arguing that same sex marriage should be illegal. We just don't want to have it forced upon us.

We agree. I would not want to be forced to marry some guy. I would not want to be forced to share my wife with a second husband, nor would I want to be forced to take a second wife.

So why is it that some people claim that gay marriage threatens traditional family values? I just don't see how my heterosexual monogamous family with children and in-laws is in any way threatened by Denise & Monica and their three kids.

I would say fear of the unknown. In this case, fear of non tradition. The argument that it threatens traditional family values is just a way to cover for the fact that they just think it is not approved by god. Ill be straight with you, (lol, not intended) I think gay marriage is against gods will but im not going to impose my ideology on someone else who doesnt believe in god, or doesnt believe its against gods will.

[Goat]

She is referring to the persecution of the early members of our church. They were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois till they pioneered across the country to Utah. Then while in Utah, not a part of the U.S. at the time, the U.S. invaded and attacked us.

So the Mormons faced persecution for their religion and their marriage practices. Therefore they should sympathize with those who also may be persecuted by religious dogma for their marriage practices. So the Mormon church stands in solidarity against the foes of same sex marriage. Good to hear it!

Neither of us are arguing that same sex marriage should be illegal. We just dont want to have it forced upon us.

No one is saying that anybody has to marry someone of the same sex at all. I have yet to see where anybody suggests that you will be forced to marry someone of the same gender.

If you don't believe in same sex marriage , don't marry someone of the same sex.

[Kuan]

She is referring to the persecution of the early members of our church. They were kicked out of Ohio, Missouri, and Illinois till they pioneered across the country to Utah. Then while in Utah, not a part of the U.S. at the time, the U.S. invaded and attacked us.

So the Mormons faced persecution for their religion and their marriage practices. Therefore they should sympathize with those who also may be persecuted by religious dogma for their marriage practices. So the Mormon church stands in solidarity against the foes of same sex marriage. Good to hear it!

Neither of us are arguing that same sex marriage should be illegal. We just dont want to have it forced upon us.

No one is saying that anybody has to marry someone of the same sex at all. I have yet to see where anybody suggests that you will be forced to marry someone of the same gender.

If you don't believe in same sex marriage , don't marry someone of the same sex.

Exactly, but I think that most churches fear that they will be forced to, or sued because they wont marry a gay couple. I also think that most religious opposition to legalizing it, fear that if gay marriage is legalized than, they will be sued for not marrying a gay couple. I feel that this is a legitimate fear. So if gay marriage is going to be legalized than it should include laws to protect churches rights to perform marriages the way they want to.

(sorry about the bad grammar, im a product of the US public education programs. I havent studied grammar since 3rd grade.)

[micatala]

Moderator Warning

Thats not even close. We are not saying give the gays civil unions and we will keep marriage, we are saying give everyone civil unions. It doesnt matter all it is, is a word.

No; you are trying to monopolize marriage, but you're too cowardly - in the guise of political correctness - to say what you actually mean. But I am not. If our law had any basis in reason, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints would have have been outlawed decades ago, and Utah invaded by the United States military and subsequently razed to the ground. Barring such a divine state of affairs, you will have yourselves to learn to live in a world of varying opinions, not all of which are derived from the ramblings of a failed Yankee soothsayer. Among those opinions are those of religious institutions far more venerable than your cult - I speak, for instance, of Christian denominations not founded upon the basis of Mammon worship, such as the Quakers - who actually believe in human liberty and who wish strongly to conduct marriage. You have no right - none at all - to deprive your betters of their deeply-held sacred institutions to feel better about the gradual failure of your own.

Especially the first sentence here is problematic, as it is really a personal attack.

You can express opposition to a religious view or a religious organization, but you should do so in civil terms.

[McCulloch]

Exactly, but I think that most churches fear that they will be forced to, or sued because they wont marry a gay couple.

Churches today are allowed to refuse to marry people for whatever reason they wish. They can refuse to marry a couple if either or both are not members of their church, or denomination. They can refuse to marry a couple if they do not participate in premarital counseling by a minister of the church. They are allowed to refuse to marry a couple if he has hair too long or she has hair too short. They can refuse to marry a couple if their astrological signs don't match properly. They can even refuse to perform a wedding for racial reasons.

No church has been sued for refusing to perform a marriage. What form of paranoia creates this fear?

[dianaiad]

Exactly, but I think that most churches fear that they will be forced to, or sued because they wont marry a gay couple.

Churches today are allowed to refuse to marry people for whatever reason they wish. They can refuse to marry a couple if either or both are not members of their church, or denomination. They can refuse to marry a couple if they do not participate in premarital counseling by a minister of the church. They are allowed to refuse to marry a couple if he has hair too long or she has hair too short. They can refuse to marry a couple if their astrological signs don't match properly. They can even refuse to perform a wedding for racial reasons.

No church has been sued for refusing to perform a marriage. What form of paranoia creates this fear?

That's not the fear...exactly. In certain circumstances, though, it could very well be. The examples you give are true...but what if the only reason that a minister refuses to marry two people IS because they are gay--when the government not only supports and authorizes gay marriage, but has quite a few laws on the books prohibiting discrimination against someone because of sexual orientation?

It is a very real fear, and it's not a good idea to simply discount it. The government has threatened the non-profit status of churches for considerably less than that.

The real fear is of more government intervention in religious matters; of a very basic and fundamental CHANGE in the way marraige is seen, traditionally and religiously...and there are those of us who are very well aware that the government has, does, and probably will continue to put legal pressure on religions to change their practices to conform in this matter.

[nygreenguy]

That's not the fear...exactly. In certain circumstances, though, it could very well be. The examples you give are true...but what if the only reason that a minister refuses to marry two people IS because they are gay--when the government not only supports and authorizes gay marriage, but has quite a few laws on the books prohibiting discrimination against someone because of sexual orientation?

It is a very real fear, and it's not a good idea to simply discount it. The government has threatened the non-profit status of churches for considerably less than that.

The real fear is of more government intervention in religious matters; of a very basic and fundamental CHANGE in the way marraige is seen, traditionally and religiously...and there are those of us who are very well aware that the government has, does, and probably will continue to put legal pressure on religions to change their practices to conform in this matter.

The government and the courts have always upheld the right of religious organizations to discriminate.

For example, a non-christian sued the Salvation Army for not letting him be a bell ringer and the SA won because they are allowed to chose who works for them. Your worries are simply baseless.

[Kuan]

Exactly, but I think that most churches fear that they will be forced to, or sued because they wont marry a gay couple.

Churches today are allowed to refuse to marry people for whatever reason they wish. They can refuse to marry a couple if either or both are not members of their church, or denomination. They can refuse to marry a couple if they do not participate in premarital counseling by a minister of the church. They are allowed to refuse to marry a couple if he has hair too long or she has hair too short. They can refuse to marry a couple if their astrological signs don't match properly. They can even refuse to perform a wedding for racial reasons.

No church has been sued for refusing to perform a marriage. What form of paranoia creates this fear?

The government and the courts have always upheld the right of religious organizations to discriminate.

For example, a non-christian sued the Salvation Army for not letting him be a bell ringer and the SA won because they are allowed to chose who works for them. Your worries are simply baseless.

It is not baseless at all. Just because it didnt happen that time, doesnt mean it wont.

McCulloch, you said that churches can deny marrying someone for racial reasons. If someone did that the couple would probably sue them for doing that, same thing could happen to churches who wont perform gay marriage.