I received an email today, posted below, and thought it would make a good topic for debate. I cannot vouch for the facts posted therein and it provided no source for the contents. This was one of those emails that people forward to everyone in their address book (which I hate), most of which are urban legend and pure bunk. What do you think?
NETANYAHU AT HIS BEST
Even those who aren’t particularly sympathetic to Israel ’s Benjamin Netanyahu, could get a good measure of satisfaction from this interview with British Television during the retaliation against Hamas’ shelling of Israel .
The interviewer asked him: “How come so many more Palestinians have been killed in this conflict than Israelis?�
Netanyahu: “Are you sure that you want to start asking in that direction?�
Interviewer: Why not?
Netanyahu: “Because in World War II more Germans were killed than British and Americans combined, but there is no doubt in anyone’s mind that the war was caused by Germany ’s aggression. And in response to the German blitz on London , the British wiped out the entire city of Dresden , burning to death more German civilians than the number of people killed in Hiroshima … Moreover, I could remind you that in 1944, when the R.A.F. tried to bomb the Gestapo Headquarters in Copenhagen , some of the bombs missed their target and fell on a Danish children’s hospital, killing 83 little children. Perhaps you have another question?�
Apparently, Benjamin Netanyahu gave another interview and was asked about Israel ’s occupation of Arab lands. His response was, “It’s our land�. The reporter was stunned – read below “It’s our land…� It’s important information since we don’t get fair and accurate reporting from the media and facts tend to get lost in the jumble of daily events.
“Crash Course on the Arab-Israeli Conflict.�
Here are overlooked facts in the current & past Middle East situation:
BRIEF FACTS ON THE ISRAELI CONFLICT TODAY
1. Nationhood and Jerusalem : Israel became a nation in 1312 BC, two thousand (2000) years before the rise of Islam.
2… Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.
3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BC, the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand (1000) years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.
4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 lasted no more than 22 years.
5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem , they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.
6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned even once in the Quran.
7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem . Mohammed never came to Jerusalem .
8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem .
9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: in 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews . Sixty-eight percent left (many in fear of retaliation by their own brethren, the Arabs), without ever seeing an Israeli soldier. The ones who stayed were afforded the same peace, civility, and citizenship rights as everyone else.
10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.
11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.
12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own people’s lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel , a country no larger than the state of New Jersey …
13. The Arab-Israeli Conflict: the Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.
14. The PLO’s Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them.
15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.
16. The UN Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel .
17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel .
18. The UN was silent while 58 Jerusalem synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.
19. The UN was silent while the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives .
20. The UN was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid-like a policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.
Questions for debate:
1) Is this revisionist history or merely anti-Arab propaganda?
2) Do Palestinians have a right to the Gaza Strip and the West Bank, or does it rightfully belong to Israel?
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Cnorman; i knows how it is to be stereotyped for the bad reasons; just ignore him.
There is an old saying; when you wrestle with a pig you both get dirty; but the pig enjoys it.
So don't bother with him.
Thanks. I don't think he'll be a problem. Besides, it was fun exposing his source on the other thread. This isn't my first rodeo with these guys -- I kinda enjoy it, to tell the truth. Call it a guilty pleasure.
Meanwhile, Israeli warplanes have launched new attacks on smuggling tunnels near Gaza’s Egypt border. A resident of Rafah said her family narrowly escaped injury.
Resident: “Planes bombed, and rockets fell near the house. My husband and the children were in the car just five minutes before the strike. They would have been attacked if they had stayed in it.�
Meanwhile, the Israeli government is facing new international criticism over its latest refusal to allow aid into the Gaza Strip. The aid group Mercy Corps says Israel is blocking a ninety-ton shipment of macaroni into Gaza. Much of Gaza’s 1.4 million population relies on humanitarian aid. The US is expected to pledge around $900 million for Gaza at a donors’ conference beginning on Monday. All of the money would go to non-governmental organizations.
Group: Israel May Built 73,000 New Settlement Homes
The Israeli group Peace Now says Israeli authorities are considering plans for 73,000 new housing units in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank. The Israeli newspaper Haaretz reports that if all of the units are built, it would mean a 100 percent increase in the total number of Israeli settlers in the West Bank.
Hagit Ofran of Peace Now: “We believe that if such plans are going to be implemented, this could really prevent a two-state solution and actually any solution to our conflict. And this is why we call the new government not to approve any new construction anywhere in the West Bank whatsoever.�
Donors Pledge $5.2 Billion at Gaza Reconstruction Conference
International donors pledged $5.2 billion Monday at a conference to rebuild the devastated Gaza Strip, but not all of the money will go to Gaza. The Obama administration offered up $900 million, but only $300 million is directed for humanitarian relief for the people of Gaza. The rest of the money will go to the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Hamas spokesperson Mushir al-Masri criticized the international community for not directing more of the money to rebuild Gaza.
Mushir al-Masri: "We would like to stress that the rebuilding of Gaza should not be politicized, and this cause needs to be placed in its correct context—the welfare and humanitarian one. What happened in this conference was directing the rebuilding funds to the wrong people. But we would like to stress that what is most important is opening the crossings and ending the siege that has been placed on the Gaza Strip.�
Democracy Now.org
Israeli Journalist Amira Hass on the Start of the UN’s Probe into Possible Israeli War Crimes during Gaza War
The actions of the Israeli army during its twenty-two-day assault on the Gaza Strip earlier this year are back in the spotlight with the arrival of a United Nations delegation in Gaza this Monday. The fifteen-member team will be investigating possible war crimes and other violations of international law during Israel’s military assault. It’s headed by South African judge Richard Goldstone, who was the former chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Israel opposes the investigation and denied the delegation visas, forcing them to enter Gaza through the Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing .
Amira Hass, author of Drinking the Sea at Gaza: Days and Nights in a Land under Siege and Reporting from Ramallah: An Israeli Journalist in an Occupied Land. Her latest book, out later this month from Haymarket Books, is a diary written by her mother, Hanna Levy-Hass, of surviving the notorious Nazi concentration camp, Bergen-Belsen. It’s called Diary of Bergen-Belsen, 1944-1945.
AMY GOODMAN: The actions of the Israeli army during the twenty-two-day assault on the Gaza Strip earlier this year are back in the spotlight with the arrival of the UN delegation in Gaza this Monday. The fifteen-member team will be investigating whether possible war crimes and other violations of international law during Israel’s military assault. It’s headed by South African judge Richard Goldstone, who was the former chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunals for the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda. Israel opposes the investigation, denies the delegation visas, forcing them to enter Gaza through the Egyptian-controlled Rafah crossing.
Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak met with UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon in New York Monday and said the UN should investigate Hamas’s rockets and not alleged war crimes by Israel. He later told reporters Israel would not cooperate with the investigation.
EHUD BARAK: From our experience, we well know that they will never be able to talk to the other side and to penetrate or to interrogate the series of terrorist operations along years, including thousands of rockets and missiles fell upon the heads of Israeli citizens, in order to get a unbiased conclusion. And knowing the procedures by which such operations are taken, I don’t think that Israel has to or will cooperate with this interrogation.
AMY GOODMAN: Human rights groups and Palestinian officials say over 1,400 Palestinians, including over 900 civilians, were killed in what Israel calls “Operation Cast Lead.� Israel disputes the figures, claiming less than 300 civilian deaths. The Israeli Defense Forces-led investigation concluded last month there was no evidence of serious misconduct by its troops.
I’m joined now by the renowned Israeli journalist Amira Hass, regular columnist for Israel’s Ha’aretz newspaper. She has spent more than a decade living in and reporting from Gaza and the West Bank, the only Israeli journalist to do this, and returned to Gaza this year a few days after the official end of Israel’s assault. She spent the next four months living in Gaza, documenting accounts of the war and its aftermath.
She is the author of Drinking the Sea at Gaza: Days and Nights in a Land under Siege and Reporting from Ramallah: An Israeli Journalist in an Occupied Land. Her latest book, out later this month from Haymarket Books, is a diary written by her mother, Hanna Levy-Hass, of surviving the notorious Nazi concentration camp Bergen-Belsen. It’s called Diary of Bergen-Belsen, 1944-1945.
Amira Hass joins us in the firehouse studio now.
Welcome to Democracy Now!
AMIRA HASS: Hi.
AMY GOODMAN: It’s great to have you with us. The latest news of the UN delegation, headed by the jurist Richard Goldstone of South Africa, being denied visas, so they’re going through the Rafah border controlled by Egypt.
AMIRA HASS: This is not the first delegation and the first investigation committee that has been denied Israeli cooperation. There was one by the Arab League that came in February and also did not receive any cooperation on the Israeli part. And it’s very strange. If they didn’t have anything to hide, if the Israelis didn’t have anything to hide, they would have gladly cooperated and given information to those very esteemed jurists, who have been—who have done a lot of important work dealing with other investigations all over the world. John Dugard led the other delegation, the first delegation of the Arab League. John Dugard is South African, just as Richard Goldstone is. And Richard Goldstone is also a Jew. And it is quite telling, or it is even incriminating, the Israeli refusal to cooperate with them.
AMY GOODMAN: What do you think they’re hiding?
AMIRA HASS: The truth. The truth that it was not an attack against the military threat, because the military threat that Hamas poses is very minor. Israel, for years, has had the need to exaggerate the Palestinian military threat. It served not only Israeli needs, it very often served also internal Palestinian needs, to exaggerate their own threat to Israel, because that’s how they could maybe get more popularity in the Arab world, outside and inside the Palestinian community. So both—this exaggeration served both parties.
And, of course, Israel wants to hide—Israel built a presentation of the reality, not—it didn’t allow the reality to come out easily, the reality of indiscriminate attacks against civilians, mostly civilians. I was there for four months. I found it hard to find—I mean, the majority of people that I met, bereft families, people whose houses were destroyed, people whose houses were occupied by the army, people who were victims to missiles, attacks either by drones or helicopters, or bombs dropped, or being killed or wounded by bombs dropped by war jets. I found it hard to find Hamas—direct Hamas activists, let alone combatants or people who are known to be combatants. There is no way to hide this—there is no way that the Israeli figures about casualties is correct.
I mean, I asked the Israeli army to give me their list of—which they say about 700 casualties that they claim, or 1,000—I don’t remember now. They refused to give me their list. I wanted the list to check name by name and then to compare with the list that Palestinian human rights organizations compiled and to see where the differences are. And they said they could not give me the list, because this would disclose their sources. In one specific question about two women who were killed in short—by short range from a tank, I asked, “Are these two women included in your list of casualties?� I didn’t get an answer. So, the Israeli refusal to cooperate with information is very telling.
It’s true that also Hamas are not telling much. But by being there, of course, you learn a lot. They don’t tell much, because I think they don’t want to tell that—or they don’t want to break the myth that they could stand up against the Israeli army. They could not the Israeli army. And this is not shame. I mean, the discussion is whether one should—whether if you want to get to liberate the Palestinians from the Israeli occupation, whether the armed struggle or the—I call it the symbolic armed struggle, is indeed the way. This is the discussion. They have not—when you look at their abilities, when you look at their—the weapons that were smuggled in, those who sent them weapons did not send them sophisticated weapons at all. And there is no way they could stand up against the Israeli army. And this is something that the Israelis—both the Israelis and Hamas, I think, want to hide.
AMY GOODMAN: And Ehud Barak, the Israeli defense minister, meeting with Ban Ki-moon Monday, saying the UN should investigate Hamas’s rockets, not the alleged war crimes by Israel?
AMIRA HASS: I think that they have—I mean, everybody was talking about the rockets, and I think that the—let me ask you, you know the city of Sderot, right? You are familiar with this. Do you know Ben-e Have you ever mentioned in your program the village Bani Suhaila? How many people know about Beit Hanoun? How many people knew about Abasan? All these—how many people know—knew about Zeitoun? All these Palestinian neighborhoods and villages which were a victim of Israeli attacks. We only know about Sderot.
AMY GOODMAN: Well, it’s interesting. Journalists could get to Sderot.
AMIRA HASS: Exactly, yes, of course.
AMY GOODMAN: The Israeli military let them get to Sderot, but not to Gaza.
AMIRA HASS: Exactly, and not to Abasan in order to see and not to—yeah. So it’s a chutzpah. I mean, really, it’s even tiring to discuss it. So, everybody knows about the rockets, Hamas rockets, on the country. People had the impression that the whole thing—that history started with the rockets, that the history of Israeli-Palestinian conflict started with the rockets, which is, of course—which doesn’t mean, you know—there is a lot of criticism, internal criticism, within the Palestinian society about the rockets, the use of rockets. It’s obvious that rockets did not liberate Gaza, did not liberate Palestine, and they cause more harm to the Palestinians than they even cause to the Israelis.
I asked once two activists of Izz ad-Din al-Qassam, of the Hamas armed wing, I asked them, “Why do you do that?� I mean, it was back in 2003, 2004. And they told me, “We want to teach the Israelis a lesson. We want them to be afraid, just as we are, just as—not we, but just as our women and children are afraid.� This was very interesting. So it is a competition about who can instill more fear. I asked this time when I was in Gaza, I asked an activist in the Islamic jihad, I said, “So, who is more afraid? You or the Israelis?� And he admitted that in this competition over fear, also the Palestinians are the losers.
AMY GOODMAN: Amira Hass, there’s an article in the New York Times that says, “According to […] newly disclosed data, about 58,800 housing units have been built with government approval in the West Bank […] over the [past] 40 years. An additional 46,500 have already obtained Defense Ministry approval within the existing master plans, awaiting nothing more than a government decision to build.� We’re talking about a doubling almost—
AMIRA HASS: Yeah.
AMY GOODMAN: —of the settlements in the West Bank.
AMY GOODMAN: This as Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu says there will be no new Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank, and illegal outposts there will be dismantled.
AMIRA HASS: Look, all settlement is illegal. So when we use the term “illegal outposts,� it’s misleading. It’s unauthorized illegal settlements, while you have the authorized illegal settlements. This is the real distinction.
And the real problem is not these outposts. They are tiny. Most of them are tiny. And they just distract our attention from the real construction. Yeah, this has been Israeli success. And this is, by the way, one of the things I ask the Palestinians, and that’s a problem. Neither the Palestinian so-called armed struggle—I call it symbolic armed struggle—and suicide—and terrorist attacks, both guerrilla and—guerrilla attacks and terror attacks against civilians, both these and Palestinian negotiation strategy have not stopped the settlements. On the contrary, the settlements grew in parallel, in tandem with the Oslo process and with the process of negotiations.
So, actually, Israel—you know, I asked once a Peace Now activist, and it was in ’95 or so, I asked him, “Why did you drop the slogan that you had before ’91 or before ’93, the slogan of ‘no peace with the settlements’?� And he said, “If the Palestinians accept the settlements, actually, if Abu Mazen accepted some settlements, who are we to oppose him or to say differently?� It’s true that with the Oslo agreement, Palestinians gave the impression that they could live with the settlements. And then you had the Geneva—Geneva talks or whatever, not talks, but the convention of some groups, that accepted the existence of two major settlements: Ma’ale Adumim and Givat Ze’ev. So, indeed, the Palestinians gave an impression that they will tolerate these settlements. And we—no, some Palestinians, not all, of course. Others say that it’s too late now to dismantle the settlements. So, actually, it is—any solution which is based on the two states is obsolete.
AMY GOODMAN: Your evaluation, assessment of President Obama so far on the Israel-Palestine conflict, as he heads now to the Middle East, first to Saudi Arabia, then to Egypt?
AMIRA HASS: It’s—
AMY GOODMAN: And then to the Buchenwald concentration camp.
AMIRA HASS: Yeah. My evaluation, it’s—so far I see more hope invested in him than I see real inclinations to pressure Israel. I mean, all the statements that were said so far are encouraging, in the sense that he understands or his administration understands that there must be a way out of this deadlock. But there must be measures taken, such as freeze of sales of arms to Israel, freeze or stoppage of all support, financial support of Israel as long as it continues to build in the settlements. So these things are yet to be seen.
AMY GOODMAN: Amira Hass, I hope this is part one of our conversation this week, that when you come back to New York City, you’ll be with us later in the week, because I particularly also want to talk about your mother’s book that’s out posthumously, Diary of Bergen-Belsen, as President Obama visits a concentration camp, as well. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. Our guest, Amira Hass, columnist for Ha’aretz newspaper, renowned Israeli journalist.
Musaa wrote:
YOU ******** LIARRRRRRRR YOU LIKE TO THROW ROCKS AND HIDE YOUR HANDS YOU 'RE AND A RAT . BY THE WAY I READ SOME OF YOU POST AND YOU GET A FREE PASS BECAUSE YOUR SOCALLED JEW AND I MEAN SOCALL.
You will undoubtedly be banned for this. But perhaps if you apologize and explain the circumstances that have led you to this mental breakdown before you are, you will not forever be remembered merely as an anti-Semitic middle school dropout.
Musaa wrote:YOU *** **** LIARRRRRRRR YOU LIKE TO THROW ROCKS AND HIDE YOUR HANDS YOU 'RE AND A RAT . BY THE WAY I READ SOME OF YOU POST AND YOU GET A FREE PASS BECAUSE YOUR SOCALLED JEW AND I MEAN SOCALL.
Musaa, what is your problem? Calling someone a rat and a *** ****ed liar?
Seriously?
Dude, the Palestinian Israeli conflict is one thing -- but you act like it's all cnorman18's fault because he happens to be Jewish.
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Listen I want you to understand something. If you get banned from this forum for your hateful rhetoric it's because of your civility -- not because "Jews" and "Christians" get special treatment. This forum banns all sorts of people of all faiths and no faiths. And it is always because they repeatedly break the rules.
Last edited by Darias on Mon Nov 29, 2010 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Knock it off, Musaa. It is quite apparent that you are the freshly banned RightKnowledge999 coming back to haunt us.
The cat's out of the bag, buddy boy.
See 'ya.
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Just so everyone, including Musaa, will know: we Jews love this sort of thing. We really do.
When people like those show their true colors, along with their intelligence, literacy levels, and credibility, which (you will notice) I do not characterize, it's nothing but good news for us. I enjoy it like a perfectly broiled prime steak.
I'm going to go make some popcorn and hope the show continues.
fewwillfindit wrote:Knock it off, Musaa. It is quite apparent that you are the freshly banned RightKnowledge999 coming back to haunt us.
The cat's out of the bag, buddy boy.
See 'ya.
And its not even halloween; its not cool at all
RightKnowledge999 had the tendancy to annoy; just look through the Islam section; constantly asking & making idiotic statements.
Do the people think that they will be left to say, "We believe" without being put to the test?
We have tested those before them, for GOD must distinguish those who are truthful, and He must expose the liars.
(Quran 29:2-3)
Musaa wrote:
YOU ******** LIARRRRRRRR YOU LIKE TO THROW ROCKS AND HIDE YOUR HANDS YOU 'RE AND A RAT . BY THE WAY I READ SOME OF YOU POST AND YOU GET A FREE PASS BECAUSE YOUR SOCALLED JEW AND I MEAN SOCALL.
You will undoubtedly be banned for this. But perhaps if you apologize and explain the circumstances that have led you to this mental breakdown before you are, you will not forever be remembered merely as an anti-Semitic middle school dropout.
Ouch, burn. It's quite evident he has no education on account of all the egregious spelling and grammar mistakes.
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