Aliens

[scorpia]

Maybe time with a trekkie I know is getting to me..... but lately I feel the need to ask; people here only believe things on scientific basis. Well then what of the existance of aliens? There seems to be more than enough proof that life existing on a planet other than Earth is possible. There are plenty of planets in other solar sytems discovered already. And if life could happen here on Earth, it can happen again. So would there be by now sufficient proof for the existance of aliens? Are they really that supernatural?

[Zarathustra]

Your first mistake is making the assumption that life arose here on earth in the first place (abiogenesis) then evolved.

And your mistake is assuming it didn't. Neither has been proven or disproven, don't treat your opinion like it is fact; or, at least, don't insult others for having their own opinions.

Though I do tip my hat to you for conceeding that, if your assumption is correct, God very well may have created life elsewhere.

[USIncognito]

No there isn't.

To actually count as evidence, there would need to be indesputable evidence of the 2nd or 3rd kind. As yet, I have seen nothing that stands up to scrutiny.

If Rosewell and Betty and Barney Hill are the best UFO as alien advocates have to offer after 40-400 years, then their case isn't that robust.

[Arthra]

Maybe time with a trekkie I know is getting to me..... but lately I feel the need to ask; people here only believe things on scientific basis. Well then what of the existance of aliens? There seems to be more than enough proof that life existing on a planet other than Earth is possible. There are plenty of planets in other solar sytems discovered already. And if life could happen here on Earth, it can happen again. So would there be by now sufficient proof for the existance of aliens? Are they really that supernatural?

I accept that life isn't restricted to this earth because we're seeing evidence of ice on Mars and traces of Methane in the Martian atmosphere.

Life as we know it though may not be in our solar system but in nearby stars like our sun.

In terms of religion, the Baha'i Writings affirm life is in the universe and "man" is not restricted to this earth.

I think scientists still have a lot of questions about how homosapiens appeared.

Another prospect is that advanced civilizations could have already risen and fallen on the earth long before what for us is historic times, i.e., prior to say 3000 years ago...

It's intrigueing to speculate that echoes of these past civilizations may be found in our ancient epics and scriptures.

- Art

[Zarathustra]

USIncognito, you believe that there is not suffient evidence for life. Does that mean that you believe that there is no life elsewhere?

[Dilettante]

Arthra wrote:

Another prospect is that advanced civilizations could have already risen and fallen on the earth long before what for us is historic times, i.e., prior to say 3000 years ago...

But then, why is there no trace of those civilizations? Nothing is impossible, I suppose, but civilizations usually leave behind remains, artifacts, garbage, etc. I don't think an advanced civilization can vanish into thin air.

[Arthra]

Arthra wrote:

Another prospect is that advanced civilizations could have already risen and fallen on the earth long before what for us is historic times, i.e., prior to say 3000 years ago...

But then, why is there no trace of those civilizations? Nothing is impossible, I suppose, but civilizations usually leave behind remains, artifacts, garbage, etc. I don't think an advanced civilization can vanish into thin air.

I've had this interest in really ancient civilizations from my youth.

and considering our own civilization I frankly admit it's hard to imagine a ancent past civilization without tons of garbage, isn't it?

Say homo sapiens have been around for what a hundred thousand years?...pretty much the way we are today biologically.

It would seem to me there'd be time for more than a few civilizations.

But what would they have used as tools and where would the artifacts be?

Could any have succeeded in leaving this planet in that time and not left any trace? or at least much of a trace that we couldn't find today:

Thu Sep 18, 7:26 PM ET

By PAUL RECER, AP Science Writer

WASHINGTON - The Amazon River basin was not all a pristine,
untouched wilderness before Columbus came to the Americas,
as was once believed. Researchers have uncovered clusters of
extensive settlements linked by wide roads with other
communities and surrounded by agricultural developments.

 The researchers, including some descendants of
pre-Columbian tribes that lived along the Amazon, have found
evidence of densely settled, well-organized communities with
roads, moats and bridges in the Upper Xingu part of the vast
tropical region.

_________________________

Nov 7, 2003, 21:08

By Andrew Lawler

Destitute villagers in south-eastern Iran have uncovered what
appears to be a Bronze Age civilisation that flourished between
ancient Sumer in Mesopotamia and Harappa in the Indus river
valley more than 4,000 years ago. Scholars already had hints of
a mysterious society in the region but the new find pinpoints its
heartland along the banks of the Halil river.

An excavation conducted earlier this year at Jiroft exposed part of
a huge building or fortress, 30 metres by 62 metres, protected by
a massive wall, says Yousef Majidzadeh, the Iranian-born
archaeologist in charge of the dig. The vessels from around
Jiroft are reminiscent of those previously found scattered
throughout the region. "There was obviously tremendous cultural
activity in this area, since small numbers of manufactured
pieces similar to the ones from Jiroft are found over a vast area,
from the Gulf to Central Asia," says Mr Azarnoush. ...

______________________________

From ancient Zoroastrian legend Yima's Enclosure from the Vendidad,there are hints of an advanced sounding civilization:

In order that the new mankind may be exempt from all moral
and physical deformities.
30. 'In the largest part of the place thou shalt make nine streets,
six in the middle part, three in the smallest. To the streets of the
largest part thou shalt bring a thousand seeds of men and
women; to the streets of the middle part, six hundred; to the
streets of the smallest part, three hundred26. That Vara thou
shalt seal up with thy golden seal, and thou shalt make a door,
and a window self-shining within.'

______________________________



So i don't know whether these civilizations of the very ancient past might have left traces and we've already detected some of them or maybe there are some left for future archeologists... is a possible.

Generally, i've found that some of the most ancient ruins are more advanced than later finds that is than in the more recent past which leads one to conclude they've been around a very, very long time...

I include some "evidence" from ancient epics as these could offer some fascinating clues...

- Art

[Wyvern]

First off there is absolutely no PROOF of extraterrestrials, however the probability of there being life on other planets is extremely high. The big problem is that we are still trying to figure out the parameters which make life possible. Fifty years ago most people would have said that the planet you are on had to be such and such distance from the parent star,but now increasingly we are finding biomes on our own planet that are completely different from our standard model(i.e. bacteria living in boiling pools in yellowstone, tube worms at the bottom of the sea next to volcanic vents and others.)
Given what we know now of how resilient life can be in addition to the number of star systems that are out there although life can't be proven without direct evidence, the probability must be extremely high.

[keltzkroz]

First off there is absolutely no PROOF of extraterrestrials, however the probability of there being life on other planets is extremely high. The big problem is that we are still trying to figure out the parameters which make life possible.

I agree that we currently do not have proof of extraterrestrial life. However, the probability of life on other planets is unknown because, as you mentioned, we are still trying to figure out the parameters which make life possible.

Given what we know now of how resilient life can be in addition to the number of star systems that are out there although life can't be proven without direct evidence, the probability must be extremely high.

I agree that life can exist in extreme conditions. But it does not mean that life came about under extreme conditions. We do not even know for sure the conditions on Earth when life first appeared (there are speculations, of course). With our current information, we simply do not know the probability of life arising in a given planet. In my opinion, 'primitive' life might indeed be abundant while 'little green men' might be rare.

[NGR]

I agree with what others have already stated- we have no evidence at all of other life in the Universe hence the reason for exploring our Solar system and for programs such as SETI etc - to find out.

I am a science fiction reader from way back and I would be most dissapointed to find we are alone. Of course should we be alone it would be an awful waste of space considering the size of the Universe.

[Arthra]

I agree with what others have already stated- we have no evidence at all of other life in the Universe hence the reason for exploring our Solar system and for programs such as SETI etc - to find out.

I am a science fiction reader from way back and I would be most dissapointed to find we are alone. Of course should we be alone it would be an awful waste of space considering the size of the Universe.

Considering that we have not done so well with some of the other species on our own planet exterminating many of them...and absorbing a great variety of cultures .... killing off members of whole civilizations by disease and abuse... enslaving many, the thought occurs to me that it is probably just as well we are not in contact with extraterrestrials...

Maybe some future time when we're more mature and have demonstrated a kinder and gentler civilization there will be contact.

- Art