What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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theStudent
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What If...?

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckels many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #141

Post by Bust Nak »

This one question made me laugh.
theStudent wrote: Speaking of Origin of Species
I have another question.
Why did Darwin name his book Origin of Species if he is not talking about origin of life on earth.
The same reason Darwin named one of his book "The Movement and Habits of Climbing Plants" when he is not talking about the movement and habits of dogs. Darwin wanted to talk about the origin of species and not about origin of life on Earth!

More seriously. Yes it is about where the species came from, yes it is about branching, yes it is about a universal common ancestor.

What it isn't about is the origin of life on Earth.
If it's referring to for example the branch the baboon evolved from, can that not be called the origin of the baboon's life?
Sure.
If it's referring to the common ancestor, can that not be called the origin of all life on earth?
No. Note the difference between this and your baboon's example.

A book called "the origin of the baboon's life" is not expected to include an explanation of the origin of the branch baboon evolved from. The same way a book about "the origin of species" is not expected to include an explanation of the origin of the common ancestor.

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Re: What If...?

Post #142

Post by Clownboat »

H.sapiens wrote:
arian wrote:"Science doesn't know everything", .. we hear them say that all the time right, .. I mean what, the claim that millions and billions of years ago humans were rats?

...

Tell that to your Rev. Dawkins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-colBHOFmgQ
You are making a claim that is demonstrably false. Dawkins said: "We are cousins of chimpanzees, more distant cousins of gorillas, ... yet more distant cousins of rats."

Are you both a descendant of, and a cousin to, someone? That would mean that one of your parents had to have had an incestuous relationship with his or her uncle or aunt.
Arian and The Student, like in all other anti evolution threads to date just cannot argue against it without quote mining or offering arguments that have already been falsified.

I enter these with a small hope of seeing something new, but it is the same ol' thing time after time.

If they served an actual creator of the universe, I would think he might help them to make actual arguments or point them to a fossil that is out of place, something... anything. Instead, they appear to be no different than any other creationist we have seen to date, offering the same arguments.

Why is it that you think you god cannot point you or anyone else on this planet to fossil that is not where it belongs? One bunny in the Cambrian and evolution is false.
You can give a man a fish and he will be fed for a day, or you can teach a man to pray for fish and he will starve to death.

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Post #143

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 134 by theStudent]

There are reports, albeit rare and disgusting reports of human chip hybrid people. Humans can only give them birth, because the birth canal isn't wide enough the other way around.

Does this bollix your theory? Or will you just take the easy route of denial?
For the sake of argument, let not go down the path of denial, and say for hypothetical purposes, it's true. What does it mean?
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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Re: What If...?

Post #144

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 135 by arian]

I never really connected the elite with these scientific doctrines, but then, I don't really think of the elite.
I basically just see them as puppets in Satan's control, puppeteering the rest of Satan's world.
However, now that you have pointed it out, and after seeing that ceremony, and connecting Richard Lewontin's words.
It all makes sense.

Looking too at the direction in which some scientific acheivements are going, the picture gets even clearer.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #145

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 138 by Bust Nak]

Okay
So what was the evidence that proved the fact?
John 8:32
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Post #146

Post by theStudent »

Bust Nak wrote: This one question made me laugh.
theStudent wrote: Speaking of Origin of Species
I have another question.
Why did Darwin name his book Origin of Species if he is not talking about origin of life on earth.
The same reason Darwin named one of his book "The Movement and Habits of Climbing Plants" when he is not talking about the movement and habits of dogs. Darwin wanted to talk about the origin of species and not about origin of life on Earth!

More seriously. Yes it is about where the species came from, yes it is about branching, yes it is about a universal common ancestor.

What it isn't about is the origin of life on Earth.
If it's referring to for example the branch the baboon evolved from, can that not be called the origin of the baboon's life?
Sure.
If it's referring to the common ancestor, can that not be called the origin of all life on earth?
No. Note the difference between this and your baboon's example.

A book called "the origin of the baboon's life" is not expected to include an explanation of the origin of the branch baboon evolved from. The same way a book about "the origin of species" is not expected to include an explanation of the origin of the common ancestor.
Hmmm...
You lost me there.
theStudent wrote:If it's referring to for example the branch the baboon evolved from, can that not be called the origin of the baboon's life?
Bust Nak wrote:Sure.
So the baboon originated from the branch, but yet the common ancestor is not the origin of the species on each branch?
I'm lost.
That's something you're going to have to break down like baby food, so I can get it - cause right now I don't.

Want to give me a simple explanation?
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Re: What If...?

Post #147

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 140 by Clownboat]
lownboat wrote:Arian and The Student, like in all other anti evolution threads to date just cannot argue against it without quote mining or offering arguments that have already been falsified.
Can you blame us if we are not seeing the falsifications?
Maybe someone needs to provide those for us. Hint hint. ;)

It's probably the same reason you can't see the verifications to support the Bible's reliability. Perhaps we didn't provide enough. :)
John 8:32
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Post #148

Post by theStudent »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 134 by theStudent]

There are reports, albeit rare and disgusting reports of human chip hybrid people. Humans can only give them birth, because the birth canal isn't wide enough the other way around.

Does this bollix your theory? Or will you just take the easy route of denial?
For the sake of argument, let not go down the path of denial, and say for hypothetical purposes, it's true. What does it mean?
Are you referring to this one?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... icist.html
'Humans evolved after a female chimpanzee mated with a pig': Extraordinary claim made by American geneticist
AhHA HA HA Ha Ha Ha
The human species began as the hybrid offspring of a male pig and a female chimpanzee, an American geneticist has suggested.
:-s
I suggest I was abducted by aliens.
That's why I can't believe the stupidness I am hearing.

Perhaps they should try the experiment, and see what happens.
Maybe then I will consider answering your question
What does it mean?
Because right now my answer is not the one you are looking for.

But here is a suggestion.
Perhaps you should start listening to arian on the reason why people want to marry the sea, trees, bridges, horses, dogs, and God knows what else.
The answer makes sense to me, and it even suggests to me that the spring board for all of this lies one place - the theory of evolution.

Yup.
It's an agenda.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #149

Post by theStudent »

Willum wrote: [Replying to post 134 by theStudent]

There are reports, albeit rare and disgusting reports of human chip hybrid people. Humans can only give them birth, because the birth canal isn't wide enough the other way around.

Does this bollix your theory? Or will you just take the easy route of denial?
For the sake of argument, let not go down the path of denial, and say for hypothetical purposes, it's true. What does it mean?
Oh. Oh.
I just read the one you were referring to.
Humanzee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanzee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilya_Ivanovich_Ivanov
I know the Russians have been for years, carrying out some of the most disgusting experiments.
But this... :shock:
The level that man's mind has reached, due to their rejecting truth.
Man has now reached a level lower than that of an animal.

As is always the case, these words written nearly 2000 years ago are true.
Romans 1:21-32
21For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God nor did they thank him, but they became empty-headed in their reasonings and their senseless hearts became darkened. 22Although claiming they were wise, they became foolish 23and turned the glory of the incorruptible God into something like the image of corruptible man and birds and four-footed creatures and reptiles. 24Therefore, God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, so that their bodies might be dishonored among them. 25They exchanged the truth of God for the lie and venerated and rendered sacred service to the creation rather than the Creator, who is praised forever. Amen. 26That is why God gave them over to uncontrolled sexual passion, for their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature;[/b] 27likewise also the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full penalty, which was due for their error. 28Just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them over to a disapproved mental state, to do the things not fitting. 29And they were filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, and badness, being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, and malice, being whisperers, 30backbiters, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, schemers of what is harmful, disobedient to parents, 31without understanding, false to agreements, having no natural affection, and merciless. 32Although these know full well the righteous decree of God"that those practicing such things are deserving of death"they not only keep on doing them but also approve of those practicing them.


All because they reject creation, as I said before, for an anti-God doctrine.
Hear what else is true...
James 3:15
That kind of wisdom doesn't come from above. It belongs to this world. It is self-centered and demonic.


'nough said.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #150

Post by Willum »

[Replying to post 147 by theStudent]

Answer the question.
Whether it occurs is gratefully in dispute, but there are reported cases. Your Russian failed with orangs, not chimps, not knowing the genetic, probably.

So answer the question, please.
I will never understand how someone who claims to know the ultimate truth, of God, believes they deserve respect, when they cannot distinguish it from a fairy-tale.

You know, science and logic are hard: Religion and fairy tales might be more your speed.

To continue to argue for the Hebrew invention of God is actually an insult to the very concept of a God. - Divine Insight

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