There was no Big Bang. Don't you think the most logical, intelligent question to ask about the Big Bang would be, 'What was the cause of the bang? The bang was an effect. What created it?
The observed expansion of the universe is not the after effect of an almighty bang. It is the growth, the evolutionary growth.
No Big Bang
Moderator: Moderators
Post #21
It suggests no such thing.Sender wrote:The big bang sugests energy created itself. That is impossble. You are right, they can't prove it. Can you tell me? It sounds like you can't.
Hers's a scenario which has just as much evidence in support of it as your theory of a creator god.
The universe previous to this one collapsed into a singularity with energy potential enough to bring itself back into existence.
I noticed Chad asked where your god got the energy from?
You didn't answer are you hiding from him?
What no answer? Surprise, surprise.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
Post #22
I just think this forum would be better served if we stayed on topic, and maybe you answer a question occasionally instead if your one line retorts that may be cute to you but annoying to others. If one would do a history of your 900 posts there probably isn't much insight. just cute comebacks. If that is not a troll whatever it is, it's you.bernee51 wrote:Yeah a troll - with 900+ posts.Sender wrote:Thats why I said what I said in the first palce. bernee denied what I said, you proved me right. I think he is a <b>troll</b> I suspect he is hiding, he he, that's all. Thanks chad.chad wrote:That is purely speculative because we do not yet know, nor may we ever know.
I'm hiding from you - I stand in awe of you.
As if.
BTW According to the definition, if I am a troll, so are you.
Who are you anyway - Upnorthfan or Sender.
Same avatar, same 'thinking'.
Post #23
The big bang is a tough idea to reconcile, not because it doesn't hold with science, but because the beginnings are cloudy. The mechanism holds very well with all know Physics. Concentrated energy expand to find less concentrated spaces. Entropy is increased. It does make sense even on that simplified level. Even the collection of said matter and energy can be explained by naturally occurring outside force, extreme gravitational forces being one.
Discounting the theory based on the fact that energy is neither created nor destroyed so there couldn't be a beginning for a large collection of matter and energy to expand ergo god created everything, ignores the same laws with respect to the creator. How does god create outside the boundaries of all we know, how does god begin? Where did the matter and energy come for him to be and use with his creation?
If the answers are god is not defined by the laws of physics and he has no beginning then its hard to find a debatable point. At least science is on the side of the mechanism when it come to the Big Bang theory.
Discounting the theory based on the fact that energy is neither created nor destroyed so there couldn't be a beginning for a large collection of matter and energy to expand ergo god created everything, ignores the same laws with respect to the creator. How does god create outside the boundaries of all we know, how does god begin? Where did the matter and energy come for him to be and use with his creation?
If the answers are god is not defined by the laws of physics and he has no beginning then its hard to find a debatable point. At least science is on the side of the mechanism when it come to the Big Bang theory.
Post #24
Silly mortals...
Who says that the bible supports creation ex nihilo?
YHWH didn't just speak the universe into existence; he defeated the chaos dragon of the abyss (that's me!) by puffing him up like a balloon and then slicing him in half. He then created the heavens from his back and the earth from his belly. I'll bet you didn't even know that YHWH had a sword!
Observe...
"Nowhere in extant literature is the myth of Yehouah’s combat with the dragon actually narrated… Nevertheless, the fact that in all the passages that speak of the dragon, the myth is not portrayed but simply presupposed, proves that it was very well known and very popular with the people. The absence of the myth in the canon is distinct and conclusive evidence that we possess in our Old Testament a fragment only of the old religious literature." ...from here.
Even Genesis admits to the existence of a watery abyss prior to any creative act of YHWH.
I posted some info on this creation myth, which is basically "The Battle of Tiamat and Marduk" interpreted for Hebrews, on an earlier thread- Another creation myth? More information can be found there.
Who says that the bible supports creation ex nihilo?
YHWH didn't just speak the universe into existence; he defeated the chaos dragon of the abyss (that's me!) by puffing him up like a balloon and then slicing him in half. He then created the heavens from his back and the earth from his belly. I'll bet you didn't even know that YHWH had a sword!
Observe...
"Nowhere in extant literature is the myth of Yehouah’s combat with the dragon actually narrated… Nevertheless, the fact that in all the passages that speak of the dragon, the myth is not portrayed but simply presupposed, proves that it was very well known and very popular with the people. The absence of the myth in the canon is distinct and conclusive evidence that we possess in our Old Testament a fragment only of the old religious literature." ...from here.
Even Genesis admits to the existence of a watery abyss prior to any creative act of YHWH.
I posted some info on this creation myth, which is basically "The Battle of Tiamat and Marduk" interpreted for Hebrews, on an earlier thread- Another creation myth? More information can be found there.
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto His people. Exodus 32:14
Post #25
If you have a problem take it up with the moderators.Sender wrote:
I just think this forum would be better served if we stayed on topic, and maybe you answer a question occasionally instead if your one line retorts that may be cute to you but annoying to others. If one would do a history of your 900 posts there probably isn't much insight. just cute comebacks. If that is not a troll whatever it is, it's you.
Either that or take a quarter, go to a phone box and tell some who cares.
Post #26
another uninformed response. A phone call cost more than a quarter.bernee51 wrote:If you have a problem take it up with the moderators.Sender wrote:
I just think this forum would be better served if we stayed on topic, and maybe you answer a question occasionally instead if your one line retorts that may be cute to you but annoying to others. If one would do a history of your 900 posts there probably isn't much insight. just cute comebacks. If that is not a troll whatever it is, it's you.
Either that or take a quarter, go to a phone box and tell some who cares.
Post #27
At least you got a response...something you are not so inclined to do...Sender wrote: another uninformed response. A phone call cost more than a quarter.
do you care to respond to..
Here's a scenario which has just as much evidence in support of it as your theory of a creator god.
The universe previous to this one collapsed into a singularity with energy potential enough to bring itself back into existence.
I also noticed Chad asked where your god got the energy from?
You didn't deign to answer him either.
A case of pots and kettles perhaps.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
Post #28
bernee51 wrote:At least you got a response...something you are not so inclined to do...
I'm still waiting to find out what it says on page 5 of Allyn and Bacon General Science 1989!And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto His people. Exodus 32:14
Re: No Big Bang
Post #29We don't need to know the cause of the Big Bang for there to have been a Big Bang.Harrison wrote:There was no Big Bang. Don't you think the most logical, intelligent question to ask about the Big Bang would be, 'What was the cause of the bang? The bang was an effect. What created it?
The observed expansion of the universe is not the after effect of an almighty bang. It is the growth, the evolutionary growth.
Re: No Big Bang
Post #30And those key words spoken around the water cooler of their day, scientist realized how to get around the Big Bang problem...and thus the theory of evolution began.ShieldAxe wrote: We don't need to know the cause of the Big Bang for there to have been a Big Bang.
