Adam and Eve were not the first human pair ?

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Colter
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Adam and Eve were not the first human pair ?

Post #1

Post by Colter »

Adam and Eve were not the first human pair. There are clues to this in Genesis right of the bat:

4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.
4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
4:8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
4:9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
4:11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;
4:12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.
4:13 And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
4:14 Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

Who is everyone if Cain is No.3 ?


4:15 And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

Again who is the any thats gonna find him?

4:16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

Who was Nod that this land was named after. I know but I'll tell ya later.


4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.

How did Cain find a wife in the land of Nod if he was No. 3. Seth, Cains (future) brother was born 130 years after Adam. Seth was 105 when he became a father? Enosh, Seths son was 90 befor he had kids


4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.


1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,


2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.


4 There were giants [nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Oh my, :shock: It appears the (sons) of God were mating with people. (sons)? ;)

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gluadys
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Post #21

Post by gluadys »

Amadeus wrote:Dilettante:

What would be the purpose of this "parable" then? What lesson does it teach? The general fall of man? If so, why is the story of Cain and Abel even included?
Yes. Why not?

And the story of Cain and Abel reinforces that by showing how the fall led to dissension in the human family through envy and murder. In fact the stories from Gen. 3-11 are sometimes referred to as "the Sin Cycle". They lead up to the call of Abraham.

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YEC
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Post #22

Post by YEC »

gluadys wrote:
YEC wrote:Dilettante,
If Adam and Eveare to be taken as symbolic...why did the authors of the New Testamnet present them as literal actual people????
How do you know authors of the NT presented them as literal actual people? Are you a mind-reader?
You don't need to be a mind reader...just a reader. It's what the trext claims.

For example:
ROM 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,...

Why is Adam a myth presented with Moses? It's obvious Adam was taken as quite literal.

In this instance Adam once again is spoken of as literal along with Enoch:
JUD 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam,...

Those are just 2 examples of how we know Adam was looked at as very real by the NT writers.

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YEC
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Post #23

Post by YEC »

gluadys,
Are you claiming that the reason for Jesus Christ to come to earth and die is based upon a parable?????

Was Jesus Christ also a parable?

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gluadys
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Post #24

Post by gluadys »

YEC wrote:
gluadys wrote:
YEC wrote:Dilettante,
If Adam and Eveare to be taken as symbolic...why did the authors of the New Testamnet present them as literal actual people????
How do you know authors of the NT presented them as literal actual people? Are you a mind-reader?
You don't need to be a mind reader...just a reader. It's what the trext claims.

For example:
ROM 5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses,...

Why is Adam a myth presented with Moses? It's obvious Adam was taken as quite literal.

In this instance Adam once again is spoken of as literal along with Enoch:
JUD 1:14 Enoch, the seventh from Adam,...

Those are just 2 examples of how we know Adam was looked at as very real by the NT writers.
I don't see any claim in either text that Adam was an historical person. It may be obvious to you, but I expect that it because it accords with your belief. The second text is particularly suspect because we have no reason to believe Enoch is historical either.

With Moses it is a little more dicey. We can't verify that he existed, but there is more reason to believe he was historical. However, the blending of historical and non-historical genealogies was very common in ancient near east cultures (and many other cultures as well.)

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gluadys
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Post #25

Post by gluadys »

YEC wrote:gluadys,
Are you claiming that the reason for Jesus Christ to come to earth and die is based upon a parable?????

Was Jesus Christ also a parable?
The reason for Jesus Christ coming to earth is that we are sinners separated from God in need of redemption and reconciliation with our maker. That's not a parable. That's human experience. Jesus is not a parable either.

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YEC
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Post #26

Post by YEC »

gluadys wrote:
YEC wrote:gluadys,
Are you claiming that the reason for Jesus Christ to come to earth and die is based upon a parable?????

Was Jesus Christ also a parable?
The reason for Jesus Christ coming to earth is that we are sinners separated from God in need of redemption and reconciliation with our maker. That's not a parable. That's human experience. Jesus is not a parable either.
It appears that you are calling the main event...the fall of man in the Garden of Eden and the repercussions a parable.

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YEC
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Post #27

Post by YEC »

gluadys wrote:
I don't see any claim in either text that Adam was an historical person. It may be obvious to you, but I expect that it because it accords with your belief. The second text is particularly suspect because we have no reason to believe Enoch is historical either.

With Moses it is a little more dicey. We can't verify that he existed, but there is more reason to believe he was historical. However, the blending of historical and non-historical genealogies was very common in ancient near east cultures (and many other cultures as well.)
Sorry the text doesn't say...Adam was a historical person...instead Adam is mentioned with historical people and presented as a historical person.

Now it's time to ask this question again, maybe you will provide an answer this time. Where does this linage change from fact to fiction?

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
Heli,
Matthat,
Levi,
Melki,
Jannai,
Joseph,
Mattathias,
Amos,
Nahum,
Esli, was it here?
Naggai,
Maath,
Mattathias,
Semein,
Josech,
Joda,
Joanan,
Rhesa,
Zerubbabel,
Shealtiel,
Neri,
Melki,
Addi, how about here?
Cosam,
Elmadam,
Er,
Joshua,
Eliezer,
Jorim,
Matthat,
Levi,
Simeon,
Judah,
Joseph,
Jonam, perhaps here?
Eliakim,
Melea,
Menna,
Mattatha,
Nathan,
David,
Jesse,
Obed,
Boaz,
Salmon,
Nahshon,
Amminadab,
Ram,
Hezron,
Perez, how about here?
Judah,
Jacob,
Isaac,
Abraham,
Terah,
Nahor,
Serug,
Reu,
Peleg,
Eber,
Shelah,
Cainan,
Arphaxad,
Shem,
Noah,
Lamech,
Methuselah,
Enoch,
Jared,
Mahalalel,
Kenan,
Enosh,
Seth,
Adam, certainly before here?
God.

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gluadys
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Post #28

Post by gluadys »

YEC wrote:
gluadys wrote:
YEC wrote:gluadys,
Are you claiming that the reason for Jesus Christ to come to earth and die is based upon a parable?????

Was Jesus Christ also a parable?
The reason for Jesus Christ coming to earth is that we are sinners separated from God in need of redemption and reconciliation with our maker. That's not a parable. That's human experience. Jesus is not a parable either.
It appears that you are calling the main event...the fall of man in the Garden of Eden and the repercussions a parable.
The main event is not what happened in the Garden of Eden. It is what happened in your life and in my life and in the lives of each and every individual human who has lived, as each individually fell into sin.

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gluadys
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Post #29

Post by gluadys »

YEC wrote: Now it's time to ask this question again, maybe you will provide an answer this time. Where does this linage change from fact to fiction?

Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
Heli,
Matthat,
Levi,
Melki,
Jannai,
Joseph,
Mattathias,
Amos,
Nahum,
Esli, was it here?
Naggai,
Maath,
Mattathias,
Semein,
Josech,
Joda,
Joanan,
Rhesa,
Zerubbabel,
Shealtiel,
Neri,
Melki,
Addi, how about here?
Cosam,
Elmadam,
Er,
Joshua,
Eliezer,
Jorim,
Matthat,
Levi,
Simeon,
Judah,
Joseph,
Jonam, perhaps here?
Eliakim,
Melea,
Menna,
Mattatha,
Nathan,
David,
Jesse,
Obed,
Boaz,
Salmon,
Nahshon,
Amminadab,
Ram,
Hezron,
Perez, how about here?
Judah,
Jacob,
Isaac,
Abraham,
Terah,
Nahor,
Serug,
Reu,
Peleg,
Eber,
Shelah,
Cainan,
Arphaxad,
Shem,
Noah,
Lamech,
Methuselah,
Enoch,
Jared,
Mahalalel,
Kenan,
Enosh,
Seth,
Adam, certainly before here?
God.
Could be any one of those individuals for whom we have no evidence outside the bible that they existed. But my guess is somewhere between Noah and Abraham.

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YEC
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Post #30

Post by YEC »

gluadys wrote:
The main event is not what happened in the Garden of Eden. It is what happened in your life and in my life and in the lives of each and every individual human who has lived, as each individually fell into sin.
Did not sin enter into this world through one man...Adam?

Because of Adams sin, are we all not born with a sin nature? (or as some put it, original sin)

What if Adam obeyed God and did not eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?

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