Did humans descend from other primates?otseng wrote: Man did not descend from the primates.
Are humans primates or should there be special biological taxonomy for humanity?
Please cite evidence.
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Did humans descend from other primates?otseng wrote: Man did not descend from the primates.
otseng wrote:However, it does not necessarily follow that human evolution is true if evolution is true.
There are reasons that would lead reasonable people to believe that humans are excluded from the evolutionary process, such as morality and consciousness.nygreenguy wrote:Actually, it totally follows. There is no logical or scientific reason to exclude humans from the evolutionary process.
There may be what some perceive as reasons, but none of them are legitimate.WinePusher wrote:
There are reasons that would lead reasonable people to believe that humans are excluded from the evolutionary process, such as morality and consciousness.
No one ever claimed that fitness was anything but an individual trait. Fitness by definition is an individual trait. Whats claimed is that evolution works on populations. This is 2 different things.The idea of "survival of the fittest" applies to individual organisms, not communities and populations as some on here suggest. And the pervasiveness of human altruism cuts aganist the idea of human evolution.
Really? Have you read the volumes and volumes of literature explaining it?Evolutionary Psychology has been successful in explaining things such as sexual mating and human behavior, but it cannot explain consciousness
Once again, there is no human evolutionary theory and your claim simply doesnt fit with the research thats out there. There are many other conscious, self-aware animals out there.. The fact that we are conscious, self aware, rational beings also cuts aganist human evolutionary theory.
Why do birds demonstrate flying skills far beyond that of any other organism? Why do bacteria demonstrate survival skills far beyond that of any other organism? Humans, just like these other organism evolved in a way beneficial for themselves. Consciousness is no different than any other evolved trait except for we put it on a pedestal because we have it.Why do human demonstrate emotional levels far beyond animals? And if you claim that they evolved, then you must provide a reason for why they would
Yes, it can "just" happen. Look at sexual selection. This is exclusively limited to how sexy one mate appears to the opposite sex. The sexier you are, the better your fitness. This has nothing to do with the environment.Evolution doesn't just happen, it takes changes in the enviroment that forces the species to adapt and evolve.
I am a reasonable person - I do not see any reasons presented as to why humans are exluded from the evolutionary process.WinePusher wrote:otseng wrote:However, it does not necessarily follow that human evolution is true if evolution is true.
There are reasons that would lead reasonable people to believe that humans are excluded from the evolutionary process, such as morality and consciousness.nygreenguy wrote:Actually, it totally follows. There is no logical or scientific reason to exclude humans from the evolutionary process.
Wrong.WinePusher wrote: The idea of "survival of the fittest" applies to individual organisms, not communities and populations as some on here suggest. And the pervasiveness of human altruism cuts aganist the idea of human evolution.
Of course it can.WinePusher wrote: Evolutionary Psychology has been successful in explaining things such as sexual mating and human behavior, but it cannot explain consciousness.
Because you say so?WinePusher wrote: The fact that we are conscious, self aware, rational beings also cuts aganist human evolutionary theory.
That depends on what you mean by 'environment'WinePusher wrote: Why do human demonstrate emotional levels far beyond animals? And if you claim that they evolved, then you must provide a reason for why they would evolve. Evolution doesn't just happen, it takes changes in the enviroment that forces the species to adapt and evolve.
WinePusher wrote:The idea of "survival of the fittest" applies to individual organisms, not communities and populations as some on here suggest. And the pervasiveness of human altruism cuts aganist the idea of human evolution.
When it comes to survival, some on here claim that the individual species duty is to the population, not to itself. Which you disagree with, yes?nygreenguy wrote:No one ever claimed that fitness was anything but an individual trait. Fitness by definition is an individual trait. Whats claimed is that evolution works on populations. This is 2 different things.
As for altruism, its exceedingly rare if it exists at all.
WinePusher wrote:Evolutionary Psychology has been successful in explaining things such as sexual mating and human behavior, but it cannot explain consciousness
I've read articles by Stephen Pinker.nygreenguy wrote:Really? Have you read the volumes and volumes of literature explaining it?
WinePusher wrote:. The fact that we are conscious, self aware, rational beings also cuts aganist human evolutionary theory.
Again, not on the level that humans are. And I was particularly responding to your statement that there are no reasons that humans should be excluded from evolution. Human's have a level of self awareness that exceeds animals, can evolution account for this?nygreenguy wrote:Once again, there is no human evolutionary theory and your claim simply doesnt fit with the research thats out there. There are many other conscious, self-aware animals out there.
Why do human demonstrate emotional levels far beyond animals? And if you claim that they evolved, then you must provide a reason for why they would
But evolution can account for bird aerodynamics and bacterial survival. Can it account for consciousness? As of now, no.nygreenguy wrote:Why do birds demonstrate flying skills far beyond that of any other organism? Why do bacteria demonstrate survival skills far beyond that of any other organism? Humans, just like these other organism evolved in a way beneficial for themselves. Consciousness is no different than any other evolved trait except for we put it on a pedestal because we have it.
Orajel works wonders.nygreenguy wrote:sorry if this is a little concise or incomplete. Im really just trying to occupy my mind while trying to ignore my intense tooth pain...
I would argue with that. Its all about the individual, or more specifically, the genes.WinePusher wrote:
When it comes to survival, some on here claim that the individual species duty is to the population, not to itself. Which you disagree with, yes?
See, altruism, in a biological context, is sacrificing your fitness for the benefit of another. Giving blood certainly isnt a sacrifice. Being a cop gives someone a good steady job and they rarely get killed, so there is no effect to their fitness either.But altruism is certainly not exceedingly rare in humans. Humans are altruistic beings, we give blood, we have cops and firefighters, we care for the wellbeing of others (even animals). That does cut aganist the idea of survival of the fittest when applied to individual species.
All sorts of organisms have traits and abilities that are above and beyond all other organisms.Again, not on the level that humans are. And I was particularly responding to your statement that there are no reasons that humans should be excluded from evolution. Human's have a level of self awareness that exceeds animals, can evolution account for this?
Firstly, even if this was true, its simply an argument to incredulity. We see, just as we do with all evolutionary traits. gradients in the animal kingdom. We can see levels of consciousness and self awareness in all sorts of animals which sows the differing levels of evolution.But evolution can account for bird aerodynamics and bacterial survival. Can it account for consciousness? As of now, no.
I wish. Ive tried it all. Get, liquid, paste.... I need 2 root canals asap, but my "insurance" (medicaid) doesnt cover it and its about $1000 a tooth! I have some hydrocodon which takes the edge off, but doesnt get rid of the pain!Orajel works wonders.
WinePusher wrote: Again, not on the level that humans are. And I was particularly responding to your statement that there are no reasons that humans should be excluded from evolution. Human's have a level of self awareness that exceeds animals, can evolution account for this?
Why do you say that?WinePusher wrote: But evolution can account for bird aerodynamics and bacterial survival. Can it account for consciousness? As of now, no.
Did Moses write the part about his own death?sniper762 wrote: The Bible states in the book of genesis, written by Moses
You are correct to point out that the creation myth in the first chapter of Genesis does not explicitly state that God created anything from nothing. That idea comes from other passages in the Bible.sniper762 wrote: [...]It appears that within these [first] three days, God merely manipulated what was already here, not creating it all from NOTHING.
You seem to be misinformed. Richard Dawkins is a scientist and he disagrees. John Shelby Spong is a theologian and he disagrees.sniper762 wrote: The generation of man can be accurately traced back to Adam, by historical data and Biblical record to approximately 6000 years ago. All scientists and theologians alike agree to this.
It is one of the many disagreements between science and revelation.sniper762 wrote: Many theologians agree that each of the six days of God’s creation, as stated in the Bible, (2 Peter 3:8) that a day with God is a thousand years with man, therefore adding 6000 years to the 6000 years since the creation of Adam culminating in approximately 12000 years total since God’s beginning of the Earth’s creation. This time frame difference is where science and theology disagree.
All I can ask is: So?Again, not on the level that humans are. And I was particularly responding to your statement that there are no reasons that humans should be excluded from evolution. Human's have a level of self awareness that exceeds animals, can evolution account for this?
Cognition research is getting much closer to fully understanding what consciousness is and how it's caused. And even if it couldn't at present, you're proposing an argument from incredulity.But evolution can account for bird aerodynamics and bacterial survival. Can it account for consciousness? As of now, no.