Aliens

scorpia · Post by **scorpia** » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:16 am

Maybe time with a trekkie I know is getting to me..... but lately I feel the need to ask; people here only believe things on scientific basis. Well then what of the existance of aliens? There seems to be more than enough proof that life existing on a planet other than Earth is possible. There are plenty of planets in other solar sytems discovered already. And if life could happen here on Earth, it can happen again. So would there be by now sufficient proof for the existance of aliens? Are they really that supernatural?

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:28 pm

otseng wrote:

So, the main question would be, why should anyone believe aliens might exist if there are no material evidence to support it?

I think it might be that we are apt to belive anything. How many searches for santa are there? Maybe some 4 year old might go looking for him but A gov. sponsored search? Maybe? We are inquisitive creatures. We fill in gaps with imagination. Given enough facts, data ,and some experimentations we imagine theories. Personally I love theories and don't know what we would do with out them. They help drive our search for meaning and understanding.
I look at the Bible and think aliens would make more sense. Jesus comes in the "clouds of heaven" still sounds like spaceships.
Maybe we are not evolved enough to talk to them?
I am reading this book called "when God disappeared" or something like that, The guy points out that God is always closer in the past or future for the Bible writer and missing in the present(the writers). Usually it was something humans done wrong that God doesn't show up.
The God(s) in the Bible or any mythology seem more like aliens then gods. Unmoved mover, first cause, all knowing, all powerful all seem like ideals and not a God, that alone one that can be understood.

nikolayevich · Post by **nikolayevich** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 4:53 pm

Cathar1950 wrote:Maybe we are not evolved enough to talk to them?
I am reading this book called "when God disappeared" or something like that, The guy points out that God is always closer in the past or future for the Bible writer and missing in the present(the writers). Usually it was something humans done wrong that God doesn't show up. The God(s) in the Bible or any mythology seem more like aliens then gods.

The author must not have read much of the Bible, or remember much of it. God is present in countless situations throughout the old and new testaments according to "the writers":

* God walked with Adam and Eve (Gen 3:8 )
* Appeared to Moses in the burning bush and on Mt. Sinai (Gen 3:2, Exd 19:18 )
* Appeared to all Israel in the desert wilderness in a cloud by day and fire by night (Exd 13:21)
* He Spoke to many prophets directly, in their day:
- * Samuel- 1Sam 3:4;
  * Isaiah- Isa 1:2;
  * Jeremiah- Jer 1:2;
  * Ezekiel- Eze 1:3;
  * etc., etc.
* Jesus (God incarnate) walked with and lived among many of the writers of the New Testament

Looking to what God did in the past and what He would do in the future was common, but not with a persistent absence of God in the present. If you are wanting to draw a conclusion between an absence of God as first mentioned, and an absence of aliens in this discussion, the parallel is not conceded by the scriptural text.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Wed Aug 03, 2005 5:23 pm

I was talking about when the stories were written not when the stories were suppose to be taken place. He is well read.
I know and God is Spirit, no one has seen God and lived, and Moses saw just his butt.

* Jesus (God incarnate) walked with and lived among many of the writers of the New Testament

That is debatable as to if he were God, rather a pagan ideal.
But it is one of the stories.

If you are wanting to draw a conclusion between an absence of God as first mentioned, and an absence of aliens in this discussion, the parallel is not conceded by the scriptural text.

Depends on which part or book of scripture your talking about. There is at least two views with-in the writing on any give subject. I see the the parallels all over the text. I am not drawing any conclusion.
"Not conceded by the scriptural text"? What coloring book have you been reading? I quess it doesn't matter on how much of the Bible you read it is the quality.
Isn't God an alien? The Big Aliens. I seem to remember something about
"and all the Earth rises up against Him and His Anointed"(servents,ones set apart). Sounds like an invasion to me. I am sure you can give me the book and chapter and verse and a very narrow reading.

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 10:24 am

Here is one!

Seriously, folks, I would like to tell you my analysis of this topic.

The universe is homogeneous. There is no reason to think that the physical laws that apply in the surroundings of the Solar System and even in our galaxy do not apply elsewhere.
The universe is also very large, and contains billions of galaxies, each one with billions of stars.
This means that statistically there are reasonable probabilities that life similar to ours and even other civilizations are spread elsewhere.

Primitive forms of life are more probable than advanced civilizations. This means that the probabilities for any form of life are higher than those for advanced civilizations. Most advanced civilizations are much less probable.
This means that an advanced civilization is probably more far away from us than other forms of life.

The scientific arguments to support any contacts between us and one of these civilizations are therefore very poor. And it never happened, as far as we are aware. Our closest civilization can statistically be at such huge distance that they it would even be practically impossible for them to visit us.

About a possible communication, I have also doubts. Each single travel for a set of signals would take hundreds of years. Even assuming to solve the problems of a common coding convention, how would it be practicable? In addition, both they and us might not be able to recognise the "Intelligent design" behind the signal (this opens an interesting topic about ID: how is it distinguisheable from noise or randomness?).

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:06 pm

Like I was saying how would we recognize something really alien?
Alien wrote:
About a possible communication, I have also doubts. Each single travel for a set of signals would take hundreds of years. Even assuming to solve the problems of a common coding convention, how would it be practicable? In addition, both they and us might not be able to recognize the "Intelligent design" behind the signal (this opens an interesting topic about ID: how is it distinguisheable from noise or randomness?).
I like to turn my tv to a non-broadcasting channel so I can watch the big bang. Is that crazy?

The scientific arguments to support any contacts between us and one of these civilizations are therefore very poor. And it never happened, as far as we are aware. Our closest civilization can statistically be at such huge distance that they it would even be practically impossible for them to visit us.

Well there is always inter or multi dimensional travel. Who knows some day we may time travel. That would make a mess or maybe the end of linear time as we know it.

Alien · Post by **Alien** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:18 am

Cathar1950 wrote: Well there is always inter or multi dimensional travel. Who knows some day we may time travel. That would make a mess or maybe the end of linear time as we know it.

Might be.
But, even assuming that an alien civilization is already able to do that, they did not visit us in the past. Therefore, either they did not find us (yet) or the assumption is wrong.
BTW, I have large doubts about time travels. All you can do is slow down your relative time, in order to "travel to the future" more quickly. Nothing more. Time is monodirectional because of the intrinsical thermodynamical properties of this expanding universe. Again, we have not seen any human time traveller arriving from the future: either we will never be able to do it, or our civilization will end completely before reaching that scientific progress.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:48 am

I read a book about building a time machine. I need a cylinder of infinite length. Builders square was all out of them. What if we have to wait till the end of our time to go back because we have to go thru it once or we have nothing to go back to and the future is only there as possibilities.
Maybe as fred allen wolf says it can only be done in the mind.

Cyraka · Post by **Cyraka** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 10:46 am

What if Time Travel is impossible? You would then be wasting your time.

Cathar1950 · Post by **Cathar1950** » Thu Aug 11, 2005 11:00 am

Wasting my time on time travel, Maybe? We don't know until we try.
I waste my time on a lot of things that I like.
I love the paradoxs.