What If...?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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theStudent
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What If...?

Post #1

Post by theStudent »

Currently, I am doing what was suggested by some on these forums.
I am researching information both for, and against evolution, and trust me - I am doing so objectively.
While I am still researching, I want to put this out, to hear the different views on it.

During my research I discovered that lately, just over the last decade or so, a lot of informations has been surfacing about fake fossils.
In fact it has now become common place for fossils sold at museums to be checked for genuineness.
I find this interesting.

Why now, is this happening?
Could it be that evidence as it always does, is now surfacing?

For example
Remember the dinosaur hoax - the one that was said to be put together using different bones?
It has recently been found out that it wasn't a hoax after all.
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2015/02/ ... ecies.html

That is quite interesting.

The fossils aren't the only things that were/are claimed to be fake.
There are the drawings, and pictures as well.
Right now, I am going through a very long document considered a case against some of Darwins picture illustrations.
But have you ever come across this one?

Pictures from the past powerfully shape current views of the world. In books, television programs, and websites, new images appear alongside others that have survived from decades ago. Among the most famous are drawings of embryos by the Darwinist Ernst Haeckel in which humans and other vertebrates begin identical, then diverge toward their adult forms. But these icons of evolution are notorious, too: soon after their publication in 1868, a colleague alleged fraud, and Haeckels many enemies have repeated the charge ever since. His embryos nevertheless became a textbook staple until, in 1997, a biologist accused him again, and creationist advocates of intelligent design forced his figures out. How could the most controversial pictures in the history of science have become some of the most widely seen?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Haeckel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Haec ... eks4-6.jpg
English: The pictures illustrate Ernst Haeckel's biogenetic law. In the beginning embryos of different species look remarkable similar, later different characteristics develop. The images initiated controversies and charges of fraud.

All of this lends to a possibility.
Consdering the fact that fossils can be faked, we must accept the fact that Darwin, and other scientists could have lied.

My question here, isn't whether he did lie or not, but rather, Does this not place evolutionists in the same position as the Christians they claim are believing in fables?

Consider:
Christians accept the Bible, as the word of God.
Here are just a few facts about the Bible.
With estimated total sales of over 5 billion copies, the Bible is widely considered to be the best-selling book of all time.
It has estimated annual sales of 100 million copies.
It has been a major influence on literature and history, especially in the West where the Gutenberg Bible was the first mass-printed book.
It was the first book ever printed using movable type.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

Archaeological findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, also called the Qumran Caves https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_Sea_Scrolls

The evidence is there however, that the book we hold in our hand today (the Bible), contains information written centuries ago.

Atheist call the book fables - the reason I have yet to find out.
Maybe one of the reasons is that they have not seen God, or seen him write any book - whatever.
So they claim that Christians' belief in them and what they present is blind faith, and belief in stories.

However, is this not the case with those who accept the theory of evolution, where all they have to go by, is what scientists claim to be evidence?

By the way...
No one, to this day have seen them recreate the theories.
Any data they give you on species, is usually what already existed (at least what I have come across so far).
As regards other claims, all we have are pictures, and claimed fossils, which could have been edited.

So evolutionists are really believing what men claim - without any substantial proof of their claim.
How is this different to believing a book?

And what if Darwin, and others lied?


I'm just interested in you different opinions and thoughts, on the above.
Here is a nice short video of someone's opinion. Reasonable too.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #581

Post by man »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 575 by man]
man wrote:It doesn't matter what you think anyway, you are on sciences side whether you like it or not, unless you think Hellfire missiles, drones, ICBMs and cruise missiles are made by god.
You believe we have brains, don't you? But you don't believe our brains are made of stone, do you?
I believe in some science, but I don't believe in science driven by anti-religious beliefs.
That imo, is not a bad thing, since I also believe in honesty, and truth.

What is truth?
I believe it exists, but it is not easy to find, due to the fact that men tries to hide it.
If it were as clear as a bowl of soup, none of us would need to debate the topic.

You know soup when you see it, don't you? Me too.
Do you know the truth, when you see it? Yes? Me too.
This is only a three minutes long and it illustrates my feelings on the matter pretty well. It features one of the greatest minds of all time, Richard Feynman.


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Post #582

Post by Bust Nak »

theStudent wrote: If it were as clear as a bowl of soup, none of us would need to debate the topic.

You know soup when you see it, don't you? Me too.
Do you know the truth, when you see it? Yes? Me too.
You say that but yet there are people debating the shape of the Earth right now in this very forum.

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Post #583

Post by Talishi »

theStudent wrote: I believe it exists, but it is not easy to find, due to the fact that men tries to hide it.
If it were as clear as a bowl of soup, none of us would need to debate the topic.
As if the scientific method included debate at all.

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Post #584

Post by H.sapiens »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 575 by man]
man wrote:It doesn't matter what you think anyway, you are on sciences side whether you like it or not, unless you think Hellfire missiles, drones, ICBMs and cruise missiles are made by god.
You believe we have brains, don't you? But you don't believe our brains are made of stone, do you?
I believe in some science, but I don't believe in science driven by anti-religious beliefs.
That imo, is not a bad thing, since I also believe in honesty, and truth.

What is truth?
I believe it exists, but it is not easy to find, due to the fact that men tries to hide it.
If it were as clear as a bowl of soup, none of us would need to debate the topic.

You know soup when you see it, don't you? Me too.
Do you know the truth, when you see it? Yes? Me too.
Science is never pro nor anti religion, it is neural and is pro truth and anti lies. Science is not always right the first time, but it is very. very rarely wrong over time. Religion on the other hand often takes untenable and unsupportable stands from the get-go and sets itself up against what science has shown to be true. As a result, religion repeatedly gets its head handed to it, Black Knight syndrome to the max. The Dali Lama understands this, what's wrong with so many Christians, Muslims and the rare Jew?

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Post #585

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 578 by man]

Okay. Understood.
That's just one perspective of some people.
People will have other perspectives.
Consider this one:
https://www.templeton.org/what-we-fund/ ... -questions
The video - Science and the Big Questions
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #586

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 579 by Bust Nak]
Bust Nak wrote:You say that but yet there are people debating the shape of the Earth right now in this very forum.
I'm not certain what you are trying to say by this statement, but what I am saying is that the truth is not easy to find, due to the fact that wicked men try to hide it. Also, I might add, sometimes people try to hide it from themselves, as though somehow that will make it go away.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #587

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 580 by Talishi]

What's infallible about the scientific method, and those who use it?
I don't think you are suggesting that it/or its application is "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me science".
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #588

Post by Talishi »

theStudent wrote: [Replying to post 580 by Talishi]

What's infallible about the scientific method, and those who use it?
I don't think you are suggesting that it/or its application is "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help me science".
Indeed not, Then it wouldn't be science.

Sometimes science is disproven. By what? More science! That's how science works.

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Post #589

Post by theStudent »

[Replying to post 585 by Talishi]
Talishi wrote:Sometimes science is disproven. By what? More science! That's how science works.
I agree.
What I was getting at is that to believe that men and their systems are infallible is the same as to be gullible. We must be able to differentiate truth from false - even in the systems we put so much faith and confidence in.

Do you think we should trust all doctors and their recommend methods?
Do you think we should trust all politition and their administration?
Do you think we should trust all popes/rabbis and their religious systems?
Do you think we should trust all educators and their institutions?

We still have to use our common sense, and good judgment, don we.
Science is no different, is it?

It's not infallible.
John 8:32
. . .the truth will set you free.

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Post #590

Post by man »

[Replying to post 582 by theStudent]

If you ask a group of children what's around the corner even though they have no idea at all at least one will raise his hand and tell you with a great deal of confidence that they know.

Long ago someone asked a question.

Even though he had absolutely no clue like the child he confidently told everyone exactly what is out there and guess what, he was wrong.

If you ask me if there is a god I will say I don't know because I am not a child, if I don't know something I say, "I don't know".

If you ask me if the bible is true I will tell you with a very high degree of certainty that it's likely not, but I bet you could get a child to believe it.

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