Belief in existence of God scientific. Denial - unscientific

[theStudent]

The length of the thread, in the link below, is largely due to repeated questions.on the contained information. The following is open for debate.
Belief in the existence of God is scientific. Denial - unscientific.

For those who disagree with the above, please state why, and/or provide evidence for the following:

• God does not exist.
• God exists only in the mind of the believer.
• Miracles do not happen.
• The Bible is a book of myths.

[Divine Insight]

I'm not getting the concept, or the point you are trying to make here.

Why would you claim the God is untrustworthy, because you misunderstand his words?
I wouldn't claim someone is untrustworthy, because I misunderstood them.

Not even if they were claiming that if you misunderstand them it necessarily means that you hate all that is good and that you are rejecting their absolute authority, even though they are asking you to do immoral things?

I would love nothing more than for the world to be a total utopia of absolute peace, love, and fairness for everyone.

As long as that includes justice, based on righteousness, I think you have millions of Christians on your side there.

What are you calling "Justice"?

Would you consider it to be justice to condemn someone to a horrible inhumane eternal punishment for simply having misunderstood something even though they were actually a loving peaceful person?

If not, then why would you support Christianity or the Bible?

Remember, Christianity does not allow for rejection of their religion or their Christ for any reason whatsoever. Not even for "misunderstanding".

Well, that's the absolute epitome of "Goodness". So clearly I'm all for "Goodness" and thus if there were a God who was "Good" I would be 100% on his side.

So are you saying, that because the world is a miserable place, that means God is not good?

No, not at all. I'm saying that because the Bible describes God as being necessarily immoral, unrighteous, untrustworthy, and ultimately no Good.

This has absolutely nothing at all to do with what state the world itself might be in.

So there would then be no excuse for this God to have created a religion that in my deep desire for "Goodness" I could not see any rational reason to support or believe in.

If the whole world was under the rule of a perfectly good God, there would be no need for religion.

Exactly. Thanks for helping to make my point.

In fact, most of the reasons why I reject this ancient religion is precisely because it is extremely immoral and barbaric. It hardly represents anything "Good".

Not only you.
If the only religions that existed were the ones that tortured poor souls, in the name of God, just because they did not follow church doctrine, I don't think I would belong to any religion.

I'm not talking about what the religions do. I'm talking about what the God of this religion supposedly does according to the Bible.

Are you familiar with the concept of Hell?

Look up the man named Jesus, he seemed to know quite a bit about it.

Sure, Jesus (not unlike me) eventually came along and also expressed a view of a world where everyone was at peace with each other and love and fairness was the norm. But so what? That hardly makes up for the hideous barbaric and immoral character of the God of the Old Testament.

IMO, I don't think we are being fair in labeling God as barbaric.
I think it is fair to give everyone a fair chance to defend themselves against accusation.

The God of the Bible has already had his say. What do you think the Bible is supposed to be? The ramblings of a bunch of human barbarians just making stuff up?

In fact, even Jesus expresses the idea that the unrighteous deserve to be damned. But that idea is already an idea of hatred and revenge. Why should righteous people be tortured in horrible suffering and pain? What is to be gained by that?

I take it you mean unrighteous people.
But the idea of God torturing anyone for any crime, is not a Biblical truth, as far as I know. Those were practices carried out by persons who believed in deities that they needed to appease, in order to get blessing.
IMO, they were being driven by gods (not mythical ones).

If you're a Christian you should be familiar with the fact that Jesus is the one who taught that the unrighteous shall go the way of everlasting punishment.

Also, if you are claiming that disbelief in the Biblical God and Jesus as his Son is perfectly acceptable and not punishable by the wrath of God then why should anyone care whether anyone believes in Christianity or not? It clearly wouldn't be important.

So even Jesus doesn't represent the epitome of love, peace, and fairness. To the contrary, even Jesus supports hateful revenge.

Face it, this religion demands that its God (even in the form of Jesus) is far beneath my standards of love, peace and fairness.

So you are saying, the death penalty, for evil people is injustice?

Absolutely. I personally do not support the "death penalty" for anyone, especially not as a punishment. IMHO, that's just sick.

But I can understand why Christians would need to feel that this would somehow constitute "Justice". They have no choice but to support that ideal because this is precisely the character of their God.

But no, I don't support that mentality as being an intelligent mentality. From my perspective that's the mentality of a barbarian. Someone who confuses "revenge" with "justice".

True "justice" would be to simply right the wrong. Or better yet, prevent it from ever happening. As mortal humans this may be beyond our abilities, but it most certainly wouldn't be beyond the capability of a truly omnipotent God.

So everything you have suggested about this "God" are actually nothing more than very frail and immoral ideas of barbaric humans.

You are basically asking me to believe in a God who has a horrible sense of morality.

And this is indeed what the Bible is asking me to believe in.

In fact, I blame it on the Bible that people like yourself actually think that this mentality has any merit. You look at the Bible and see it supporting this mentality and since you believe the Bible is the word of God you have come to accept that this kind of immoral barbaric thinking somehow equates to something a divine supernatural God would support.

I reject that whole notion. I reject the "God" of the Bible precisely because it is an immoral character who is far beneath my standards of morality and intelligence. It's clearly a false dogma that was written by barbaric minds.

There is absolutely no good to be had in torturing supposedly "evil" people. That's not "justice" at all. It's nothing more than worthless revenge.

Yet apparently you seem to think that this would be some sort of divine character for a God to have.

Sorry, but I'm just not in agreement with that.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 59 by Divine Insight]

And so explain to me why it should be that I have an "misunderstanding" of love, peace, and fairness, when I'm all for it?

I did not say that about anyone.
You haven't even told me what you consider to be

love, peace, and fairness

This religion demands that I must necessarily be damned to hell. There's no getting around it. Not only to I reject the idea that Jesus is the Son of God or a "Savior", but I even reject that God of the Old Testament as being an immoral barbaric buffoon.

Which religion is that? Certainly not the one I practice.
Why do you view God that way? Not that it's any of my business, but there must be reasons why you hate the God of the Bible.

How could that possibly be if the God actually existed and truly represented love, peace, wisdom, and all that is "Good".

Do you mean how it is possible for you to hate God, if he really exists?
According to the Bible, that easy.
As I said before, some people say what they don't mean; They often change their mind; and more importantly, the Bible portrays God as being, not barbaric, abundnt in love.

Proclaiming that I simply "don't understand" the religion is absolute nonsense that makes no sense at all. It's hardly a defense for a failed religion.

Where have I said that you don't understand a religion?
Could you show me where I said that?

Also, if so many people misunderstand this religion including the vast majority of Christians, then who's fault could that possibly be anyway? It could only be the fault of the God who is supposedly behind this religion. He would be the inept guilty party here.

Oh. I get it.
You are equating the Bible with religion.
They are not the same, and take note, I did not say you don't understand, I said the Bible is subject to misunderstanding.

There clearly is no God behind this religion.

That's a claim, made obviously by someone who admits to being against God, the Bible, and religion.
So how could such a claim possibly hold anything?

So even if there were a "God" entity that started the Big Bang it could have easily designed everything to be on auto-pilot after that anyway. In fact, a God who would need to stick around and baby-sit his universe would actually be an inferior designer.

The Biblical God who had to actually create the universe piece by piece like a child playing in a sandbox is actually a very limited view of what a God should be like. Any decent God should be able to just say, "Let there be a Universe and there was a Universe". Period. Having to stick around and design every little piece of it would be silly.

All of this seem to be saying, Divine Insight, that you know everything, which would make you omniscient.
So I know it can't be what you are saying, because that's impossible.
So I would take it that you are just expressing your feelings.

[Divine Insight]

And so explain to me why it should be that I have an "misunderstanding" of love, peace, and fairness, when I'm all for it?

I did not say that about anyone.
You haven't even told me what you consider to be love, peace, and fairness

This isn't about you and me. This is about the Biblical God. It's the Biblical God that is supposed to be all about love, peace, and fairness. And if it is all about love, peace, and fairness, then why should I misunderstand the Bible?

Surely an omniscient supreme creator could make his position clear?

This religion demands that I must necessarily be damned to hell. There's no getting around it. Not only to I reject the idea that Jesus is the Son of God or a "Savior", but I even reject that God of the Old Testament as being an immoral barbaric buffoon.

Which religion is that? Certainly not the one I practice.
Why do you view God that way? Not that it's any of my business, but there must be reasons why you hate the God of the Bible.

I don't "hate" the God of the Bible. I'm simply reacting to what it says.

The religion I'm talking about is Christianity. Christ is supposed to be the "savior" who is saving us from a God who is out to damn us to hell. So if you don't believe that there is a God who is out to damn you to hell, (and deservedly so I should add), then why in the world would you think you need to be "saved" from that horrible fate?

I don't make this stuff up. This is the basics of Christianity.

How could that possibly be if the God actually existed and truly represented love, peace, wisdom, and all that is "Good".

Do you mean how it is possible for you to hate God, if he really exists?
According to the Bible, that easy.
As I said before, some people say what they don't mean; They often change their mind; and more importantly, the Bible portrays God as being, not barbaric, abundnt in love.

That's not the Bible I've read. Perhaps if you send me your copy I can see something different?

Jesus is supposed to be saving you from a damnation that you supposedly deserve. Or did you miss that part?

Proclaiming that I simply "don't understand" the religion is absolute nonsense that makes no sense at all. It's hardly a defense for a failed religion.

Where have I said that you don't understand a religion?
Could you show me where I said that?

Remember we aren't talking about any personal accusations here.

In post #56 you stated:

I believe the Bible is subject to misinterpretation and misunderstanding.

I'm, simply explaining how that apology for this religion makes no sense in general.

Also, if so many people misunderstand this religion including the vast majority of Christians, then who's fault could that possibly be anyway? It could only be the fault of the God who is supposedly behind this religion. He would be the inept guilty party here.

Oh. I get it.
You are equating the Bible with religion.
They are not the same, and take note, I did not say you don't understand, I said the Bible is subject to misunderstanding.

Christianity is indeed based upon the Bible. In fact, that all there is to the religion. If it wasn't for the existence of the Bible, Christianity wouldn't even exist at all.

So the Bible is the Christian Religion.

And besides, keep in mind that we're talking about a God here who has to be defined somewhere. If you can't point to the Bible as defining the character, behavior, directives, and commandments of your "God" then how do you define your God? Does your God end up being nothing more than a personal whim of what you would personally wish a God might be like?

That would hardly be "Christianity", although I will concede that this is what "Christianity" has indeed become for many people. It's just an imaginary religion that they make up in their own minds that is completely independent and detached from the original Bible from whence it originated.

There clearly is no God behind this religion.

That's a claim, made obviously by someone who admits to being against God, the Bible, and religion.
So how could such a claim possibly hold anything?

It's a claim made by someone who fully recognizes that the religion is a belief in the Biblical narrative. In fact, if you want to strip that away from what you claim Christianity to be, then what are you going to point to as the "commandments" of this God? And why would you think that Jesus was his "Son"? Or a "savior".

What would you need a "savior" for if you hadn't first been told that some God is out to damn you because you supposedly deserve to be damned?

You aren't making any sense. Christianity without the Bible is nothing.

So even if there were a "God" entity that started the Big Bang it could have easily designed everything to be on auto-pilot after that anyway. In fact, a God who would need to stick around and baby-sit his universe would actually be an inferior designer.

The Biblical God who had to actually create the universe piece by piece like a child playing in a sandbox is actually a very limited view of what a God should be like. Any decent God should be able to just say, "Let there be a Universe and there was a Universe". Period. Having to stick around and design every little piece of it would be silly.

All of this seem to be saying, Divine Insight, that you know everything, which would make you omniscient.

I don't need to know everything. All I need to know is that if a God is said to be omniscient and omnipotent then he shouldn't need to baby-sit his universe and constantly tweak things because he failed to get it right the first time.

It's just common sense.

So I know it can't be what you are saying, because that's impossible.
So I would take it that you are just expressing your feelings.

I'm going by the claims of the religion. Christianity claims that "With God all things are possible".

Yet according to you this God would need to guide 'evolution' because he couldn't create a universe capable of evolving on its own. But that wouldn't be a God who is omnipotent or who could do anything. It would be a very limited God who has to baby-sit things and guide them every step of the way because he's not good enough to just engineer a self-propagating universe in the first place.

I mean, after all, even human engineer and programmers are already striving to create computer programs and simulations that can become totally autonomous. Surely an omnipotent God would have already perfected that art.

So it's pretty much a given. You shouldn't need to know everything to realize that an omnipotent God could actually be omnipotent and not be as inept as Creationists expect their God to be.

They need a God who could almost create a universe that could evolve into living entities, but not quite, because one of the mandates of their religion is that the universe needs God to baby-sit it. It's actually a flaw in their religion that requires that they include a flaw in their God.

[theStudent]

[Replying to post 61 by Divine Insight]

Not even if they were claiming that if you misunderstand them it necessarily means that you hate all that is good and that you are rejecting their absolute authority, even though they are asking you to do immoral things?

Something would have to be wrong with that person's head.
According to the Bible, God makes sure a person understands, even if he has to tell them repeatedly. Even a deaf person, he finds a way to communicate his word to them. And as far as I know, God of the Bible never tells anyone to be immoral. He hates immortality.

What are you calling "Justice"?

Justice means doing what is right and fair.

Would you consider it to be justice to condemn someone to a horrible inhumane eternal punishment for simply having misunderstood something even though they were actually a loving peaceful person?

Of course not!
How could that ever be right?
I have never understood the God of the Bible to be that way.
That contradicts practically all the scriptures, imo.

If not, then why would you support Christianity or the Bible?

From what we see, Christianity of the Bible, is not the Christianity that is branded on every "gathering in the name of Jesus".
The duck test – "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck" should probably be applied.
Jesus said similar.
He said, you would be able to tell the difference between a real sheep, and a wolf in sheep covering, describing those who would not be true Christians.

Do you know of any Christian in the Bible who killed someone for not believing their teachings, torturing them, and roasting them alive?
I don't know of any.
I know, from scripture, of the religious leaders - the Scribes and Pharisees, who committed unjustified murders.

There were no different, in my opinion, than the so-called Christians today, who do not follow the first century Christian teachings.

Remember, Christianity does not allow for rejection of their religion or their Christ for any reason whatsoever. Not even for "misunderstanding".

That, imo, is not Christianity of the Bible, and is against the teachings of the God of the Bible. As far as I understand from the Bible, God is judge, and misunderstanding is not an unrighteous act, just as an honest mistake is not unrighteousness.

.the Bible describes God as being necessarily immoral, unrighteous, untrustworthy, and ultimately no Good.

I don't know what Bible you read, but the Bible I know of, does no such thing.
Perhaps it is a matter of misunderstanding. Is that possible?

Exactly. Thanks for helping to make my point.

You are welcomed.
...but the world, according to the Bible, is under the power of a perfectly evil god, described as the Devil, which means slanderer.

Are you familiar with the concept of Hell?

Look up the man named Jesus, he seemed to know quite a bit about it.

The God of the Bible has already had his say. What do you think the Bible is supposed to be? The ramblings of a bunch of human barbarians just making stuff up?

It is important to realize that the Bible was not originally written in English. It was translated, from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So...

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "hell" in most English-language Bibles. They include:

"Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible, and "Hades" in the New Testament. Many modern versions, such as the New International Version, translate Sheol as "grave" and simply transliterate "Hades". It is generally agreed that both sheol and hades do not typically refer to the place of eternal punishment, but to the grave, the temporary abode of the dead, the underworld.

Other traditions, which do not conceive of the afterlife as a place of punishment or reward, merely describe hell as an abode of the dead, the grave, a neutral place located under the surface of Earth (for example, see sheol and Hades).

So again, it seems to be a case of how we understand, but the Bible itself can help to verify if our understanding is correct or not.

If you're a Christian you should be familiar with the fact that Jesus is the one who taught that the unrighteous shall go the way of everlasting punishment.

Also, if you are claiming that disbelief in the Biblical God and Jesus as his Son is perfectly acceptable and not punishable by the wrath of God then why should anyone care whether anyone believes in Christianity or not? It clearly wouldn't be important.

Some translations read "everlasting destruction".
Some translations, are consistent with the Bibles teaching that death is the punishment for sin.

I am concerned with what the Bible teaches, not with what someone chooses to do or believe. Key word chooses.
If someone is seeking help in understanding the Bible, that person, imo, will get the help they need.

True "justice" would be to simply right the wrong. Or better yet, prevent it from ever happening. As mortal humans this may be beyond our abilities, but it most certainly wouldn't be beyond the capability of a truly omnipotent God.

How would you know what true justice is?
If you did, I don't think you would be using a computer to communicate, or waiting on scientific theories to establish anything, because you would be the all wise, medical healer, financial advisor, and inventor, of the most sophisticated technology ever.

[Divine Insight]

[Replying to post 61 by Divine Insight]

Not even if they were claiming that if you misunderstand them it necessarily means that you hate all that is good and that you are rejecting their absolute authority, even though they are asking you to do immoral things?

Something would have to be wrong with that person's head.
According to the Bible, God makes sure a person understands, even if he has to tell them repeatedly. Even a deaf person, he finds a way to communicate his word to them. And as far as I know, God of the Bible never tells anyone to be immoral. He hates immortality.

It makes no sense to say that the God of the Bible hates immorality when he himself is grossly immoral.

What are you calling "Justice"?

Justice means doing what is right and fair.

Exactly. So do you think it's right and fair to torture anyone for all of eternity? Everlasting punishment as Jesus proclaims?

Would you consider it to be justice to condemn someone to a horrible inhumane eternal punishment for simply having misunderstood something even though they were actually a loving peaceful person?

Of course not!
How could that ever be right?
I have never understood the God of the Bible to be that way.
That contradicts practically all the scriptures, imo.

Have you read John 3:18?

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

If you simply don't believe that Jesus is the virgin born demigod Son of Yahweh you are doomed.

If not, then why would you support Christianity or the Bible?

From what we see, Christianity of the Bible, is not the Christianity that is branded on every "gathering in the name of Jesus".
The duck test – "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck" should probably be applied.
Jesus said similar.
He said, you would be able to tell the difference between a real sheep, and a wolf in sheep covering, describing those who would not be true Christians.

I'm not concerned about any concept of "True Christians". In fact, Jesus couldn't possibly have addressed that concept because when Jesus lived there was no such thing as Christianity or Christians.

Do you know of any Christian in the Bible who killed someone for not believing their teachings, torturing them, and roasting them alive?
I don't know of any.
I know, from scripture, of the religious leaders - the Scribes and Pharisees, who committed unjustified murders.

Who's talking about Christians?

Read John 3:18. Apparently it's God who is going to condemn people for not believing in the name of Jesus. What people who call themselves "Christians" might do is totally moot.

There were no different, in my opinion, than the so-called Christians today, who do not follow the first century Christian teachings.

You seem to be making some sort of argument for how people who call themselves Christians might behave. That's totally irrelevant. And besides throughout history people who have called themselves Christians have brutally murdered many people on charges of heresy and even for charges of witchcraft.

Today's progress Christians are extremely mild in comparison. Although much of that is no doubt due to secular laws that prevent them from carrying out these horrible hate crimes.

Remember, Christianity does not allow for rejection of their religion or their Christ for any reason whatsoever. Not even for "misunderstanding".

That, imo, is not Christianity of the Bible, and is against the teachings of the God of the Bible. As far as I understand from the Bible, God is judge, and misunderstanding is not an unrighteous act, just as an honest mistake is not unrighteousness.

So then according to you people of all religious faiths, including Muslims who believe in Allah and the Qur'an are in perfectly good shape with the Jesus and the Christian God.

Atheists too must also be in perfectly good shape with Jesus and God as long as they are righteous atheists.

What you have just said about basically reduces to a claim that it's totally unimportant to believe in Jesus, the Bible, or Christianity.

.the Bible describes God as being necessarily immoral, unrighteous, untrustworthy, and ultimately no Good.

I don't know what Bible you read, but the Bible I know of, does no such thing.
Perhaps it is a matter of misunderstanding. Is that possible?

If I'm misunderstanding the Bible and its God, then I can't very well be charged with rejecting the God that it supposedly does describe right?

So if I misunderstand the Bible then it's actually a GOOD THING that I reject it.

If there really does exist a decent moral God then He/She/It should be absolutely thrilled with me that I reject a dogma that I understand to be extremely immoral.

So if you claim that I misunderstand the Bible this vindicates me personally of any wrong doing in this regard. And the fact that I reject the Bible is a GOOD thing.

Exactly. Thanks for helping to make my point.

You are welcomed.
...but the world, according to the Bible, is under the power of a perfectly evil god, described as the Devil, which means slanderer.

This doesn't make any sense. If there exists an omnipotent GOOD God who is almighty and all-powerful then why would this GOOD God allow this perfectly evil God to destroy the objects of his creation?

If he can't prevent it, then he's impotent.
If he can prevent it but refuses to do so he's as malevolent as the evil God.

Also, aren't we supposed to be able to TRUST this God? Why should we trust a God who allows an evil demonic God to harm us and deceive us?

This is an oxymoron Student.

You can't excuse this God by claiming that there is an evil God on the loose that this God can't control.

Are you familiar with the concept of Hell?

Look up the man named Jesus, he seemed to know quite a bit about it.

The God of the Bible has already had his say. What do you think the Bible is supposed to be? The ramblings of a bunch of human barbarians just making stuff up?

It is important to realize that the Bible was not originally written in English. It was translated, from Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. So...

Different Hebrew and Greek words are translated as "hell" in most English-language Bibles. They include:

"Sheol" in the Hebrew Bible, and "Hades" in the New Testament. Many modern versions, such as the New International Version, translate Sheol as "grave" and simply transliterate "Hades". It is generally agreed that both sheol and hades do not typically refer to the place of eternal punishment, but to the grave, the temporary abode of the dead, the underworld.

Other traditions, which do not conceive of the afterlife as a place of punishment or reward, merely describe hell as an abode of the dead, the grave, a neutral place located under the surface of Earth (for example, see sheol and Hades).

So again, it seems to be a case of how we understand, but the Bible itself can help to verify if our understanding is correct or not.

Have you forgotten that Jesus stated clearly that the unrighteous shall go the way of everlasting punishment? He also spoke of an unquenchable fire, and a "worm" that will never die.

Appealing to bad translations doesn't help a thing.

Also, look what you've just done. You've actually given people very good reason why they should misunderstand the Bible because according to you it was poorly mistranslated.

Also, if there existing a trustworthy God then why is it that he cannot be trusted to keep his Holy Books in order?

This God could not blame anyone for rejecting the Bible. Even you claim that it has been badly mistranslated and cannot be trusted to be truthful. So even you have validated my position that I should indeed reject the Bible as being the word of any God.

If you're a Christian you should be familiar with the fact that Jesus is the one who taught that the unrighteous shall go the way of everlasting punishment.

Also, if you are claiming that disbelief in the Biblical God and Jesus as his Son is perfectly acceptable and not punishable by the wrath of God then why should anyone care whether anyone believes in Christianity or not? It clearly wouldn't be important.

Some translations read "everlasting destruction".
Some translations, are consistent with the Bibles teaching that death is the punishment for sin.

Well, you're still talking about "punishing people". That's already an extremely low mentality view, IMHO. An omnipotent God should be able to do better. Besides, other religions proclaim that their God never loses so much as a single solitary soul. So why not choose one of those religions? Why choose a religion that has a God who loses the vast majority of souls that he creates? And according to the Bible that's precisely what the Biblical God does.

I am concerned with what the Bible teaches, not with what someone chooses to do or believe. Key word chooses.
If someone is seeking help in understanding the Bible, that person, imo, will get the help they need.

Jesus himself proclaimed that the way to everlasting life is narrow and that few will make it. This necessarily then means that the vast majority of human souls will indeed go the way of damnation. Whether that be everlasting punishment or merely destruction doesn't seem to make a lot of difference. This would still be a creator who loses the vast majority of souls that he creates. And that would be an extremely inept creator.

True "justice" would be to simply right the wrong. Or better yet, prevent it from ever happening. As mortal humans this may be beyond our abilities, but it most certainly wouldn't be beyond the capability of a truly omnipotent God.

How would you know what true justice is?
If you did, I don't think you would be using a computer to communicate, or waiting on scientific theories to establish anything, because you would be the all wise, medical healer, financial advisor, and inventor, of the most sophisticated technology ever.

Why do you say that? I'm not omnipotent.

We're talking about a supposedly omnipotent God remember?

If I were omnipotent I wouldn't allow things to get as far out of control as they are.

In fact, the Biblical God clearly has no problem killing people. He drown out countless humans in the Great Flood. He had no trouble turning Lot's Wife into a pillar of salt for merely turning around and looking back when she had been told not to.

This God clearly has no problem killing people. If that's the case, then why doesn't he kill people before they actually commit their heinous crimes? He's supposedly omniscient. He's supposed to know what's in the heart and soul of every mind. Yet, he can't stop a serial killer from brutally killing people even repeatedly?

Sorry Student, but there's just no justification for this fairy tale. And trying to turn the tables on me proclaiming that I should have God-like Powers just because I know better than to fall for an extremely self-contradictory, immoral, mythology makes no sense.

Just because I can tell wisdom from ignorance doesn't make me omnipotent.

~~~~~

[Peds nurse]

[Replying to post 43 by RonE]


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[ttruscott]

Would you consider it to be justice to condemn someone to a horrible inhumane eternal punishment for simply having misunderstood something even though they were actually a loving peaceful person?

I am innocent. Some other dude did it. This sentence is cruel and unusual. GOD has no authority over me. GOD is evil so I should not be punished. GOD's people do worse....ad infinitum.

Does this match the quotations of Christ about weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth?

[The phrase "(there shall be) weeping and gnashing of teeth appears seven times in the New Testament as a description of the torments of the damned in Hell. - Wiki]

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 67 by ttruscott]

What's adorable is you didn't address his point, you simply made a biblical reference about how people WOULD bring up sound objections to a barbaric institution.

Hypothetical person A: "I don't think we should kill puppies."

Hypothetical person B: "I KNEW YOU WOULD SAY THAT."

Does that, by your logic, mean killing puppies is a rational pastime?

[Divine Insight]

Would you consider it to be justice to condemn someone to a horrible inhumane eternal punishment for simply having misunderstood something even though they were actually a loving peaceful person?

I am innocent. Some other dude did it. This sentence is cruel and unusual. GOD has no authority over me. GOD is evil so I should not be punished. GOD's people do worse....ad infinitum.

Does this match the quotations of Christ about weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth?

[The phrase "(there shall be) weeping and gnashing of teeth appears seven times in the New Testament as a description of the torments of the damned in Hell. - Wiki]

What does any of this have to do with my quote?

You say:

I am innocent.

What are you being charged with in the first place?

Some other dude did it.

Some other dude did what? What was the charge again?

This sentence is cruel and unusual.

The only sentence I had suggested as being cruel and unusual is sentencing someone to eternal punishment for merely not believing that we were created by an immoral insane bully.

GOD has no authority over me.

What does authority have to do with anything? Is this God righteous or not?

Zeus could kill you simply because he doesn't like you. He has ultimate authority to do whatever he so desires, be it good or evil.

The Biblical God has no such "authority". The Biblical God is supposed to be benevolent, righteous, and trustworthy, therefore the Biblical God must abide by the "Authority" of righteousness, and therefore he cannot do evil things like casting innocent people into a state of eternal damnation for merely not believing in ancient myths about an immoral God.

GOD is evil so I should not be punished.

What's the charge again? Why should I be punished?

Also, how does eternal punishment solve anything?

GOD's people do worse

I don't recall ever suggesting that there even exists such a thing as "God's People". My complaint with the Bible is the immorality it associates with its God. How people who think they are doing the will of God behave is another matter entirely.

[RonE]

[Replying to post 39 by RonE]

[Replying to post 31 by theStudent]

[Replying to post 24 by RonE]

what you give us is just garbage

See post 30.
But don't be disappointed if you find more "garbage".
It's actually from the same source.

I have challenged you several times to provide evidence of your god.
Maybe I have misunderstood you:
1) Do you claim that god exists?
2) Do you claim that your god is the intelligence behind ID?

To keep it simple for you 'Yes' or 'No' are adequate.

If either or both are 'Yes' answers then please provide the evidence of your god I have previously requested.

Actually I had found your "manifesto" before finding your new topic, that was of course after you abandoned your previous topics, with issues pending by the way.
But never mind, your not going back to those for all the obvious reasons. So, yes I read your document at some leisure wondering all the while what was in your head and where I'd see it again. I found it a mishmash of oddly disjointed thinking. Do you think science is still back in the mid 1800's, cause that's the only thing I came way with. Science has gone a long way in a century & 1/2. When I read anything on science I always look at the publish date first.
I'll probably not get back to this again until Monday, but I'll see if I can find something to help you gain some real understanding to modern science.