What assumptions must be made. Part 1:
What scientific and engineering assumptions must we make about the story of Noah's Ark that would render the story a true fact?
* Can we make assumptions that are based soundly in science that could render the story plausible?
* What gaps in the story must we fill in?
* Christians, what assumptions have you made about the flood story that has kept it alive for you over the years?
We could discuss the science of the flood - but I think it would help to concentrate on one thing at a time: In this case the ship itself and it's ability to contain all the animals 2 by 2 and deal with waves and being shipwrecked on a mountain etc...
Noah's Ark an engineering masterpiece!
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Post #61
Hybernation does not work for me because I have a hedgehog. If they hybernate for to long they die. I guess, it could reduce the food and work needed to take care of the animals but it would not eliminate it.
52,000 pairs does not sound like a doable number. This would require "macro-evolution" on a very rapid scale. To allow the 52,000 pairs we would have to come up with a cause for the rapid evolution. If a creationist excepts 52,000 pairs they have to except speciation on a grand scale.
Bailing the leaky boat would not have to be done. The water would not be very salty due to the amount of water. By passing thru the birch the water would not be very salty. The animals could then drink it. They could have a huge line of animals waiting to step out the window and take a leak to remove the urine.
52,000 pairs does not sound like a doable number. This would require "macro-evolution" on a very rapid scale. To allow the 52,000 pairs we would have to come up with a cause for the rapid evolution. If a creationist excepts 52,000 pairs they have to except speciation on a grand scale.
Bailing the leaky boat would not have to be done. The water would not be very salty due to the amount of water. By passing thru the birch the water would not be very salty. The animals could then drink it. They could have a huge line of animals waiting to step out the window and take a leak to remove the urine.
Post #62
A creationist once told me that Noah would have only needed one pair in the dog/fox/wolf/coyote family - and yet he insists he doesn't accept in evolution! God himself believed in evolution if that's what He expected Noah to do.
If one pair in each family of animals was enough, then Noah would not even need himself or his family in the ark. A couple of chimps would have sufficed.
If one pair in each family of animals was enough, then Noah would not even need himself or his family in the ark. A couple of chimps would have sufficed.
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McCulloch
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Post #63
But, don't you know, the continents were closer back then.cfiott wrote:One of the huge assumptions we would have to make is that technology existed for Noah to travel around the globe in a few days and bring with him two polar bears from the Arctic, two llamas from South America, two kangaroos from Australia, two komodo dragons from Indonesia, and so on and so forth... and then for these animals to adapt to life inside a ship for almost two months.... and then for them to return to their natural habitats. I mean, this was a WORLD flood, was it not?
Oh, and a pair of each type of dinosaur!
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
Post #64
Okay. What exactly did the people do to make God very upset and decided to drown all living things, i.e. , men, women, children, babies, fetuses, innocent animals (except Noah's family and some animals)? How were their sins compared to the sins of people today? I think it's long overdue that God creates another Great Flood and start all over again. Although, flooding the earth is messy. Where will you put all those water if the whole earth is covered by it?
I guess, instead of me questioning the engineering/technical/logistical circumstances of the Ark, I will ask why God would have gone that route. He could have used His magic wand and made all living things disappear and create another ones to His liking. Instead of giving Noah a lot of work.
With God, everything is possible. Remember when He created Light on the first day and the Sun on the fourth day? Amazing feat.
I guess, instead of me questioning the engineering/technical/logistical circumstances of the Ark, I will ask why God would have gone that route. He could have used His magic wand and made all living things disappear and create another ones to His liking. Instead of giving Noah a lot of work.
With God, everything is possible. Remember when He created Light on the first day and the Sun on the fourth day? Amazing feat.
Post #65
Is it possible that only one family on the entire planet was not evil?
I don't know, of course, but that sounds so much like a fairy tale to me.
Why would God go the route of a global flood when He could dispose of the evil people in any number of less messy ways?
He didn't.
Was there a major flood in the Middle East around Noah's time (give or take a few, or many, centuries?
Absolutely. There are many stories about it. Something did happen.
Was it a flood that forced the water to rise 29,000 above sea level?
Absolutely not! Where could all that water come from and where could it disappear to after the flood?
Why do so many people believe such an impossible story?
Because we're no different from other species. Many of us just belong.
I don't know, of course, but that sounds so much like a fairy tale to me.
Why would God go the route of a global flood when He could dispose of the evil people in any number of less messy ways?
He didn't.
Was there a major flood in the Middle East around Noah's time (give or take a few, or many, centuries?
Absolutely. There are many stories about it. Something did happen.
Was it a flood that forced the water to rise 29,000 above sea level?
Absolutely not! Where could all that water come from and where could it disappear to after the flood?
Why do so many people believe such an impossible story?
Because we're no different from other species. Many of us just belong.
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historylass
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Dinosaurs
Post #66I actually heard it preached in a sermon once that dinosaurs must have been on Noah's Ark, because they were obviously alive and since man was created on the seventh day, dinosaurs were alive at the same time men were. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on board the ark. It made the whole Noah story slightly ridiculous I felt, but there were people in the congregation nodding their heads in agreement.
Post #67
Well, to me this is where the creation science version of Noah's Ark really takes a spin. Even if I were to cede that it was possible for all the living animals of the earth to board the ark (which I don't) than the fundamental question that must be asked is "What of the dinosaurs?" I encourage anyone who believes the dinosaurs were on the ship to have a look at "Supersaurus" coming in at over 130 ft. in length. Now, they have to account for two of them. Not only that, but they have to account for all other dinosaur creatures such as T-Rex, Brontosaurus, and countless other giants. After all, God said to take two of EACH creature. He did not mention anything about dinosaurs, and one must assume that God meant dinosaurs as well. Seems to be another errant viewpoint on the creationist side.
Post #68
God required two of each species, but he didn't say how old they had to be. Two adult tyrannosaurus rex would need the entire ark to themselves, but baby dinosaurs take very little room.
Still, such a large collection of animals could not possibly have been found in the first place, let alone dragged into the ark and made to live in an unfamilair habitat for almost two months. People who capture wild animals for beneficial purposes today have all kinds of tools to trap or tranquilize them and to transport them and take care of their medical needs. Yet, even with today's technology, there is not one single zoo in the world that has even a fraction of all the animals of the planet. Now I'm expected to beleive that a 600-year-old man accomplished such a feat in 7 days thousands years of years ago? It's laughable, really!
And can you imagine Noah's family and all those animals living in that stench and all that feces?
Still, such a large collection of animals could not possibly have been found in the first place, let alone dragged into the ark and made to live in an unfamilair habitat for almost two months. People who capture wild animals for beneficial purposes today have all kinds of tools to trap or tranquilize them and to transport them and take care of their medical needs. Yet, even with today's technology, there is not one single zoo in the world that has even a fraction of all the animals of the planet. Now I'm expected to beleive that a 600-year-old man accomplished such a feat in 7 days thousands years of years ago? It's laughable, really!
And can you imagine Noah's family and all those animals living in that stench and all that feces?
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Cathar1950
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Post #69
The worse problem with taking the myth literally is that it ruins the story.
I think the older story was better but we can only wonder what the original was like when it was used by the Hebrew writer as most of the stories were reworked after they first used them.
I can picture a kid asking all kinds of questions.
Maybe they were all in test tubes and then given growth and fertility drugs after the flood.
I think the older story was better but we can only wonder what the original was like when it was used by the Hebrew writer as most of the stories were reworked after they first used them.
I can picture a kid asking all kinds of questions.
Maybe they were all in test tubes and then given growth and fertility drugs after the flood.
Post #70
Sure, but it wouldn't make for a very memorable story now would it? Most of the vivid tales written in our various holy books can be analysed in the same way -- just the right blend of reality and fantasy to keep people fascinated. But to imagine that the architect of this universe would be interested in such triviality is to place him only just above the level of a bronze-age philosopher.anu wrote: I guess, instead of me questioning the engineering/technical/logistical circumstances of the Ark, I will ask why God would have gone that route. He could have used His magic wand and made all living things disappear and create another ones to His liking. Instead of giving Noah a lot of work.
