Biological diversity does not suggest we evolved from fish

[stcordova]

Humans are more similar to chimps than they are to trees. This was well known by creationists even before Darwin.

We might superficially then claim chimps and humans must have descended from a common ancestor. And we could rinse and repeat and say, "we're more similar to fish than to trees as well so we fish and humans must have descended from a common ancestor of fish and humans."

The problem then is we follow the logic carefully, we must therefore conclude we didn't evolve from fish, at best fish and humans descended from some unspecified a common ancestor.

So let me for the sake of argument assume evolutionism is true. What can we conclude from these diagrams:

Vertebrates descend from Vetebrates
Mammals descend from Mammals
Primates descend from Primates
Humans descend from Humans

Therefore: Humans descended from Humans

Evolutionists however will give the following non-sequitur:

Vertebrates descend from Vetebrates
Mammals descend from Mammals
Primates descend from Primates
Humans descend from Humans

Therefore: Humans descended from Fish

Here is a diagram at the anatomical level that shows a very nice hierarchical pattern from universe review.

http://universe-review.ca/I10-82-vertebrates.jpg




and then regarding the bone morphogenetic proteins

http://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1- ... 18-gr1.jpg




What these diagrams show is that Fish will not give birth to anything but something fish like. It won't give rise to Primates!

As Michael Denton pointed out, superficially the structure of diversity in the biosphere suggest common descent, but the problem is it also suggest that there won't be any transitionals even in principle. Hence a careful study of the diagrams might lead one to think special creation is a better explanation since it is evident that fish don't give any hint of being ancestors to primates.

[otseng]

Now that would ALSO be a Supernatural ability that we allegedly have as well, that is suppose to somehow be tied into the remote viewing. Apparently we have the ability to see into the future. Now this is where I GET INCREDULOUS. But this is the claim.[/color]

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[mickeymudge]

Now that would ALSO be a Supernatural ability that we allegedly have as well, that is suppose to somehow be tied into the remote viewing. Apparently we have the ability to see into the future. Now this is where I GET INCREDULOUS. But this is the claim.[/color]

Moderator Comment

5. Support your assertions/arguments with evidence. Do not persist in making a claim without supporting it. All unsupported claims can be challenged for supporting evidence. Opinions require no support, but they should not be considered as valid to any argument, nor will they be considered as legitimate support for any claim.

Please see the page on evidence.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

I see, however when I used the word claim, it wasn't "MY" claim that I was referring to. I wasn't by any means trying to say the claim is impossible, but more that I personally don't see how it could work. So if anyone else agrees with the claim being just a claim, here are some better supporting links that basically prove it to be more than just a claim...


http://science.howstuffworks.com/scienc ... -video.htm

http://www.astralvoyage.com/remote/probable.html

http://www.farsight.org/demo/multiple_u ... iment.html

http://www.nhne.com/specialreports/srremoteviewing.html

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/scientifi ... e_viewing/

http://time-travelers.org/excerpt10.htm

http://www.remote-viewing.com/using.html

http://eventhorizonchronicle.blogspot.c ... s-and.html

http://www.crystalinks.com/remote_viewing.html

http://viewzone.com/rv2013.html

http://wakeup-world.com/2013/04/15/remote-viewing/

http://probablefuture.com/

https://www.remoteviewdaily.com/?p=what ... g&tab=home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project

http://www.learnrv.com/

http://ufosightingshotspot.blogspot.com ... ophic.html

http://www.espresearch.com/espgeneral/WhatWeKnow.shtml

Here is a just a few. I hope this clears up any problems.

[Danmark]

I see, however when I used the word claim, it wasn't "MY" claim that I was referring to. I wasn't by any means trying to say the claim is impossible, but more that I personally don't see how it could work. So if anyone else agrees with the claim being just a claim, here are some better supporting links that basically prove it to be more than just a claim...
....
Here is a just a few. I hope this clears up any problems.

Moderator Warning

Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

Please review our Rules.

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[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 81 by mickeymudge]

Actually all it clears up runs in the opposite direction of where you're trying to go. There's not a technical journal or referred publication on your list. The closest you get to an authoritative source is Wiki, and that says:

The Stargate Project was terminated in 1995 with the conclusion that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague, included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues.

[mickeymudge]

[Replying to post 81 by mickeymudge]

Actually all it clears up runs in the opposite direction of where you're trying to go. There's not a technical journal or referred publication on your list. The closest you get to an authoritative source is Wiki, and that says:

The Stargate Project was terminated in 1995 with the conclusion that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague, included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues.

So you pick the ONLY link that has anything negative to say about it, and consider it to be the only authoritative source. Did it ever occur to you that the biased claims on wiki are perhaps by an incredulous person that is simply not willing to own up to the fact that nothing was doctored, it's actually WORKING! On top of that, you totally ignore the fact that it allegedly took the CIA 23 years to figure out it wasn't working, and you totally overlook the fact that the cold war was over at that point. I wont even mention what these guys got paid.

I guess I forgot to mention that the CIA might want to lead the public to believe that this ability doesn't work, as they might want to be able to use it in the future if they have to. Keeping them on for 23 years sort of tells you whats really going on.


I will say this, I'm HORRIBLE at reading between the lines, but sometimes it's just a little too obvious. All you did was look through the links for anything that would debunk the ability, and totally ignore the rest of it.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, can you please direct me to the person, company, or authoritative department that determine whether or not this ability is legit or working correctly?

[H.sapiens]

[Replying to post 81 by mickeymudge]

Actually all it clears up runs in the opposite direction of where you're trying to go. There's not a technical journal or referred publication on your list. The closest you get to an authoritative source is Wiki, and that says:

The Stargate Project was terminated in 1995 with the conclusion that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague, included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues.

So you pick the ONLY link that has anything negative to say about it, and consider it to be the only authoritative source. On top of that, you totally ignore the fact that it allegedly took the CIA 23 years to figure out it wasn't working, and you totally overlook the fact that the cold war was over at that point. I wont even mention what these guys got paid.

Actually, I picked the only site that even had a resemblance of peer review, I did not bother with the others, they all appearing to be Luny Tune blogs.

I've worked with a fair number of those "CIA guys" over the years, on projects from rural pacification during the Southeast Asia Friendship Games to various underwater "adventures" and often (with a few notable exceptions, whose real affiliation was usually the Office of Naval Research) they were not, "the sharpest rocks in the box," we years to figure this out is proof positive, not of the validity of remote viewing but rather the caliber of the project managers who, "changed the reports so they would fit background cues."

I will say this, I'm HORRIBLE at reading between the lines, but sometimes it's just a little too obvious. All you did was look through the links for anything that would debunk the ability, and totally ignore the rest of it.

I really did not have to "look." As I explained, wiki was the only "impartial" source you listed, so I went straight to it.

[mickeymudge]

[Replying to post 81 by mickeymudge]

Actually all it clears up runs in the opposite direction of where you're trying to go. There's not a technical journal or referred publication on your list. The closest you get to an authoritative source is Wiki, and that says:

The Stargate Project was terminated in 1995 with the conclusion that it was never useful in any intelligence operation. Information provided by the program was vague, included irrelevant and erroneous data, and there was reason to suspect that its project managers had changed the reports so they would fit background cues.

So you pick the ONLY link that has anything negative to say about it, and consider it to be the only authoritative source. On top of that, you totally ignore the fact that it allegedly took the CIA 23 years to figure out it wasn't working, and you totally overlook the fact that the cold war was over at that point. I wont even mention what these guys got paid.

Actually, I picked the only site that even had a resemblance of peer review, I did not bother with the others, they all appearing to be Luny Tune blogs.

I've worked with a fair number of those "CIA guys" over the years, on projects from rural pacification during the Southeast Asia Friendship Games to various underwater "adventures" and often (with a few notable exceptions, whose real affiliation was usually the Office of Naval Research) they were not, "the sharpest rocks in the box," we years to figure this out is proof positive, not of the validity of remote viewing but rather the caliber of the project managers who, "changed the reports so they would fit background cues."

I will say this, I'm HORRIBLE at reading between the lines, but sometimes it's just a little too obvious. All you did was look through the links for anything that would debunk the ability, and totally ignore the rest of it.

I really did not have to "look." As I explained, wiki was the only "impartial" source you listed, so I went straight to it.

Well then, let me just show you how WRONG or biased, Wiki can be...

This ability is listed in the bible, and named "perceive" by God. Along with it we also had the ability to be privy to Telepathic messages within any vision. God called that "Understand."

Isaiah's Commission from the Lord

8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?� Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.� 9 And he said, “Go, and say to this people:

“‘Keep on hearing,[c] but do not understand;
keep on seeing,[d] but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,[e]
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.�[sic]

God removed our ability to Transmit Telepathy in the tower of babel...

The Tower of Babel

7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.� 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused[a] the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.[sic]





*Telepathy*

This is a universal ability, instilled in all humanoids, unless they were altered like we were. This ability acts as an easy communication access point between races and family's. There would be no need to learn a language, it's universal before that adapted process. This is also much more efficient than talking. Our proof that it exists or at least existed for us, is in part from the many reports of abductees, and many passages in the bible are referring to the holy ghost and the holy spirit as people were hearing voices in their heads and had no other way to identify them. I tested this understanding, by asking someone that adamantly refuses to believe in the existence of aliens. I asked her, if she was home alone one day, and heard voices in her head, and that no one was around the house, and that she's not crazy. Where would she think these voices are coming from. She thought for a moment and reports that she would probably figure that it's either a ghost or a spirit. I looked at her in shock, and told her, what a coincidence, those are both mentioned in the bible. Obviously god disabled ours in such a way that we could still receive but not transmit. To explain how it was that God was still able to hear our thoughts and prayers, reading our minds may have been a separate ability in his secondary set of abilities. Primary abilities could be basic functions, like seeing with eyeballs, hearing with ears, smelling with the nose, and talking with the mouth, and even Telepathy, and all humanoids might have these, where as secondary abilities would be proprietary per species.

God's ability to read your thoughts would not be on the same channel as telepathy as telepathy isn't meant to always share your thoughts, just what you want to speak. In other words, if you wanted to have privacy, and not talk out loud, you could. But if God could read your thoughts, he could invade that privacy. This of course proves why he was said to be all knowing. Reading our thoughts, allowed two way communication between us and God, even though our transmit is disabled. Believing that God is all around you is a misconception brought on from people experiencing god talking to them through telepathy (generations later) and reading their thoughts, while they were not able to observe him. Today, believing that God is all around you, and can hear, and tend to your prayers, is the equivalent of having imaginary friends, as I noted earlier, God has surely passed. In the tower of Babel, God was not pleased when the people had built the tower, and as a punishment, he removed our natural Telepathy, and scattered us all over the globe. This is why we have different languages. All of these people were forced to create their own language, now realizing that they would be forced to speak through their mouths. Of course had God of not scattered us, we certainly would have created one language.

The ability to remote view has other names. Astral projection, visions, perceive, the third eye, and when you look them up in wiki, you get a different story from remote view.

But here is another example of wiki being wrong.

The 10% brain myth.

It's important to realize at this point that our doctors know little about the brain. They have learned more about areas in function of the brain. But there has always been skepticism about it's performance as we have no method to know if it's all working to full capacity. The myth was that we only use 10% of our brain. And while I was never able to find anything that proved this theory, I was also never able to find anything to disprove it. We actually have no way of knowing if our brains are functioning correctly. Given the obvious proof of us having disabled abilities, it's possible that some of these would obviously add to the performance. If you're wanting my opinion, It's possible that when scientists are able to witness tiny electrical impulses within the brain, if we were operating correctly, our brains would be lit up like light bulbs. Some research I did about our brain size by comparison, would prove that we have the largest brains per body mass, by far, from any other species here on earth. I was forewarned about relying on Wikipedia for information, and it's obviously an excellent warning per the 10% myth. They are adamant that our brains are operating correctly and that it's just a myth with nothing to back it up. Then in closing they turn around and say, we actually know little about the brain. WOW. Allan Whitenack Snyder is the director of the Centre for the Mind at the University of Sydney, Australia. His research has proven that transcranial magnetic stimulation to the left temporal lobe can induce savant-like skills in healthy people.

[H.sapiens]

Well then, let me just show you how WRONG or biased, Wiki can be...

This ability is listed in the bible, and named "perceive" by God. Along with it we also had the ability to be privy to Telepathic messages within any vision. God called that "Understand."

Isaiah's Commission from the Lord

8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?� Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.� 9 And he said, “Go, and say to this people:

“‘Keep on hearing,[c] but do not understand;
keep on seeing,[d] but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,[e]
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.�[sic]

God removed our ability to Transmit Telepathy in the tower of babel...

The Tower of Babel

7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.� 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused[a] the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.[sic]

Even if the Bible meant what you claim it meant, which I rather doubt ... got some references from respected Biblical Scholars? Preferably in peer reviewed journals?

*Telepathy*

This is a universal ability, instilled in all humanoids, unless they were altered like we were. This ability acts as an easy communication access point between races and family's. There would be no need to learn a language, it's universal before that adapted process. This is also much more efficient than talking. Our proof that it exists or at least existed for us, is in part from the many reports of abductees, and many passages in the bible are referring to the holy ghost and the holy spirit as people were hearing voices in their heads and had no other way to identify them. I tested this understanding, by asking someone that adamantly refuses to believe in the existence of aliens. I asked her, if she was home alone one day, and heard voices in her head, and that no one was around the house, and that she's not crazy. Where would she think these voices are coming from. She thought for a moment and reports that she would probably figure that it's either a ghost or a spirit. I looked at her in shock, and told her, what a coincidence, those are both mentioned in the bible. Obviously god disabled ours in such a way that we could still receive but not transmit. To explain how it was that God was still able to hear our thoughts and prayers, reading our minds may have been a separate ability in his secondary set of abilities. Primary abilities could be basic functions, like seeing with eyeballs, hearing with ears, smelling with the nose, and talking with the mouth, and even Telepathy, and all humanoids might have these, where as secondary abilities would be proprietary per species.

God's ability to read your thoughts would not be on the same channel as telepathy as telepathy isn't meant to always share your thoughts, just what you want to speak. In other words, if you wanted to have privacy, and not talk out loud, you could. But if God could read your thoughts, he could invade that privacy. This of course proves why he was said to be all knowing. Reading our thoughts, allowed two way communication between us and God, even though our transmit is disabled. Believing that God is all around you is a misconception brought on from people experiencing god talking to them through telepathy (generations later) and reading their thoughts, while they were not able to observe him. Today, believing that God is all around you, and can hear, and tend to your prayers, is the equivalent of having imaginary friends, as I noted earlier, God has surely passed. In the tower of Babel, God was not pleased when the people had built the tower, and as a punishment, he removed our natural Telepathy, and scattered us all over the globe. This is why we have different languages. All of these people were forced to create their own language, now realizing that they would be forced to speak through their mouths. Of course had God of not scattered us, we certainly would have created one language.

That cut and past is from "a wiki" but not "the wiki." I trust you understand the difference?

The ability to remote view has other names. Astral projection, visions, perceive, the third eye, and when you look them up in wiki, you get a different story from remote view.

But here is another example of wiki being wrong.

The 10% brain myth.

The 10% brain myth is complete and utter crap that no one of any learning has subscribed to for many, many decades. But that does not lend credence to your arguing from ignorance that ESP of any sort exists.

Snyder did not demonstrate any sort of ESP, he demonstrating that TMS applied to the left temporal lobe can cause a person can draw better or count the number of dots on a screen very fast, hardly "savant" like skills. Magnets also may help wound sites heal, hypothesized to have something to do with concentrating hemoglobin molecules in the area.

[mickeymudge]

Well then, let me just show you how WRONG or biased, Wiki can be...

This ability is listed in the bible, and named "perceive" by God. Along with it we also had the ability to be privy to Telepathic messages within any vision. God called that "Understand."

Isaiah's Commission from the Lord

8 And I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?� Then I said, “Here I am! Send me.� 9 And he said, “Go, and say to this people:

“‘Keep on hearing,[c] but do not understand;
keep on seeing,[d] but do not perceive.’
10 Make the heart of this people dull,[e]
and their ears heavy,
and blind their eyes;
lest they see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.�[sic]

God removed our ability to Transmit Telepathy in the tower of babel...

The Tower of Babel

7 Come, let us go down and there confuse their language, so that they may not understand one another's speech.� 8 So the Lord dispersed them from there over the face of all the earth, and they left off building the city. 9 Therefore its name was called Babel, because there the Lord confused[a] the language of all the earth. And from there the Lord dispersed them over the face of all the earth.[sic]

Even if the Bible meant what you claim it meant, which I rather doubt ... got some references from respected Biblical Scholars? Preferably in peer reviewed journals?

*Telepathy*

This is a universal ability, instilled in all humanoids, unless they were altered like we were. This ability acts as an easy communication access point between races and family's. There would be no need to learn a language, it's universal before that adapted process. This is also much more efficient than talking. Our proof that it exists or at least existed for us, is in part from the many reports of abductees, and many passages in the bible are referring to the holy ghost and the holy spirit as people were hearing voices in their heads and had no other way to identify them. I tested this understanding, by asking someone that adamantly refuses to believe in the existence of aliens. I asked her, if she was home alone one day, and heard voices in her head, and that no one was around the house, and that she's not crazy. Where would she think these voices are coming from. She thought for a moment and reports that she would probably figure that it's either a ghost or a spirit. I looked at her in shock, and told her, what a coincidence, those are both mentioned in the bible. Obviously god disabled ours in such a way that we could still receive but not transmit. To explain how it was that God was still able to hear our thoughts and prayers, reading our minds may have been a separate ability in his secondary set of abilities. Primary abilities could be basic functions, like seeing with eyeballs, hearing with ears, smelling with the nose, and talking with the mouth, and even Telepathy, and all humanoids might have these, where as secondary abilities would be proprietary per species.

God's ability to read your thoughts would not be on the same channel as telepathy as telepathy isn't meant to always share your thoughts, just what you want to speak. In other words, if you wanted to have privacy, and not talk out loud, you could. But if God could read your thoughts, he could invade that privacy. This of course proves why he was said to be all knowing. Reading our thoughts, allowed two way communication between us and God, even though our transmit is disabled. Believing that God is all around you is a misconception brought on from people experiencing god talking to them through telepathy (generations later) and reading their thoughts, while they were not able to observe him. Today, believing that God is all around you, and can hear, and tend to your prayers, is the equivalent of having imaginary friends, as I noted earlier, God has surely passed. In the tower of Babel, God was not pleased when the people had built the tower, and as a punishment, he removed our natural Telepathy, and scattered us all over the globe. This is why we have different languages. All of these people were forced to create their own language, now realizing that they would be forced to speak through their mouths. Of course had God of not scattered us, we certainly would have created one language.

That cut and past is from "a wiki" but not "the wiki." I trust you understand the difference?

The ability to remote view has other names. Astral projection, visions, perceive, the third eye, and when you look them up in wiki, you get a different story from remote view.

But here is another example of wiki being wrong.

The 10% brain myth.

The 10% brain myth is complete and utter crap that no one of any learning has subscribed to for many, many decades. But that does not lend credence to your arguing from ignorance that ESP of any sort exists.

Snyder did not demonstrate any sort of ESP, he demonstrating that TMS applied to the left temporal lobe can cause a person can draw better or count the number of dots on a screen very fast, hardly "savant" like skills. Magnets also may help wound sites heal, hypothesized to have something to do with concentrating hemoglobin molecules in the area.

I was not alleging that this proves we have ESP powers, I was
suggesting that it could, but that at least it proves we OBVIOUSLY DON"T know everything about the brain, and obviously that the brain CAN work better than our once ill perceived notion (based on nothing actually) that our brains are operating at optimum performance.

Maybe you will understand it better if I put it this way. The reason our brains are able to work better, is simply because they can.

No you're right, he did NOT demonstrate any ESP abilities, if you want proof of those you go to this guy...
Dr Michael Persinger, is a cognitive neuroscience researcher and university professor. He was able to prove that humans have thought transference between each other. With one subject in one room, and another in a room with him, he shines a bright flashlight in the subject's eye, and according to computers, the person in the other room, registered a sympathetic response at the same time. Persinger also works in the field's of telepathy and clairvoyance. He also claims that certain gifted people have remote viewing.

Or you could go to these guys...

The only difference I'm able to find about the two, is Psychokinesis looks like it might require some type of physical movement of your body, where Telekinesis appears to be totally through the mind. Nina Kulagina could move objects that were close to her hands, and even stop a frog's heart from beating. Scientists claim that poltergeist activity is generated from the mind of the subject, yet not coherently controlled. Dr. John Ankerberg, Dr. John Weldon, for parapsychologists, and other psychical researchers, poltergeists are often seen as a merely human phenomenon—a manifestation of alleged human (usually adolescent) psychokinesis. You can pretty much guarantee that one of our disabled abilities, is Psychokinesis. This may also explain why we believe we have a subconscious, and also the same reason why automatic writing works, or the Ouija board. If our cerebral cortex isn't able to connect with our cerebellum, this activity could explain our cerebellum trying to grab our attention. If levitation is part of this, the only documented cases of it also happen to always include demonic possession. So it makes it impossible to figure out if it's within us, and just being activated, or if it's from an external source. An example is Donald Decker in Rain man / Donald Decker, was able to cause it to rain, indoors. Witnessed by police, landlord, and tenants. Even stranger was the rain, could form on the floor as a drop, and shoot upward, or sideways. Donald levitated in the event as well, but it was proven that he was possessed. He gave up his abilities when he was exorcised.

[Danmark]

Dr Michael Persinger, is a cognitive neuroscience researcher and university professor. He was able to prove that humans have thought transference between each other.

Rubbish!
"The only published attempt to replicate these effects failed to do so and concluded that subjects' reports correlated with their personality characteristics and suggestibility. They also criticised Persinger for insufficient double-blinding and argued that there was no physiologically plausible mechanism by which his device could affect the brain. Persinger responded that the researchers had an incorrect computer setup and that many of his previous experiments were indeed carried out double-blind. Both claims are disputed.

The evidence base on which Persinger's theory rests has been criticised and commercial versions of Persinger's devices sold by his research associate Todd Murphy have proved unable to produce the effects that Murphy claims under experimental conditions."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Persinger