Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be science?

Creationism, Evolution, and other science issues

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Zzyzx
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Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be science?

Post #1

Post by Zzyzx »

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Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be science?
Science is a systematic and logical approach to discovering how things in the universe work. It is derived from the Latin word scientia, which translates to knowledge. Unlike the arts, science aims for measurable results through testing and analysis. Science is based on fact, not opinion or preferences. The process of science is designed to challenge ideas through research. It is not meant to prove theories, but rule out alternative explanations until a likely conclusion is reached.

The scientific method

When conducting research, scientists observe the scientific method to collect measurable, empirical evidence in an experiment related to a hypothesis (often in the form of an if/then statement), the results aiming to support or contradict a theory.

The steps of the scientific method go something like this:

Make an observation or observations.

Ask questions about the observations and gather information.

Form a hypothesis " a tentative description of whats been observed, and make predictions based on that hypothesis.

Test the hypothesis and predictions in an experiment that can be reproduced.

Analyze the data and draw conclusions; accept or reject the hypothesis or modify the hypothesis if necessary.

Reproduce the experiment until there are no discrepancies between observations and theory.

Some key underpinnings to the scientific method:

The hypothesis must be testable and falsifiable.

Research must involve deductive reasoning, not inductive reasoning. Deductive reasoning is the process of using true premises to reach a logical true conclusion.

An experiment should include a dependent variable (which does not change) and an independent variable (which does change).

An experiment should include an experimental group and a control group. The control group is what the experimental group is compared against.
Scientific theories and laws

The scientific method and science in general can be frustrating. A theory is almost never proven. A few theories do become scientific laws (such as the law of gravity) and laws are generally considered to be without exception " though in fact even some laws have been modified over time after further testing found discrepancies.

This does not mean theories are not meaningful. For a hypothesis to become a theory, rigorous testing must occur, typically across multiple disciplines by separate groups of scientists. Saying something is just a theory is a lay persons term that has no relationship to science, because in science, a theory is something that is very well supported by observation and experimentation.

http://www.livescience.com/20896-scienc ... ethod.html
One can add to the steps: Publish methodology and conclusions for others to evaluate.

Thus, no pronouncement is entitled to call itself science unless it adheres to the Scientific Method " and conjecture based on unverifiable tales and offering nothing that can be tested does NOT qualify as a science.

Questions for debate:

1) Does Creationism (or "Intelligent Design") meet ANY of the requirements of science?

2) Is claiming to be science while not meeting the criteria a case of fraud (or at least false) claim?
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ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence

Bust Nak
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Re: Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be scienc

Post #2

Post by Bust Nak »

Zzyzx wrote: 1) Does Creationism (or "Intelligent Design") meet ANY of the requirements of science?
Well, ID certainly makes observations and have predictions. Meeting just any requirements is a low bar to set, isn't it? It needs to meet every requirements of science, hence the word "requirement."
2) Is claiming to be science while not meeting the criteria a case of fraud (or at least false) claim?
False clam sure, whether it is deceitful or not is difficult to answer.

As an aside, I found the part about "research must involve deductive reasoning, not inductive reasoning" a bit strange. Generalising results from experiments into applicable rules is inductive reasoning.

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Re: Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be scienc

Post #3

Post by Youkilledkenny »

[Replying to post 1 by Zzyzx]
Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be science?
As fraud (wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.) probably not
As fraud (a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.) yes.
Personally, most anything that I can think of that comes from religion is fraudulent to some degree - dishonest at least.
But it doesn't matter really. People can believe in fraudulent things if they want. Personally, if they keep their beliefs to themselves I don't much care what they believe in or what it's called.
Unfortunately, as with most things Christian in the USA, this can't seem to be the case.

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Re: Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be scienc

Post #4

Post by H.sapiens »

Zzyzx wrote: .
Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be science?
Yes.
Last edited by H.sapiens on Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be scienc

Post #5

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 3 by Youkilledkenny]

I would say it is deceit for financial or personal gain because several court cases decided it was not science. Any attempt by these organizations to further attempt to claim this is deceit and if they claim that while achieving a personal gain because of it is committing fraud.

I can think of a few websites that do this.

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Re: Is it fraud for Creationism and ID to claim to be scienc

Post #6

Post by whatsit »

2) Is claiming to be science while not meeting the criteria a case of fraud (or at least false) claim?
www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/120/6-knowledge.htm
in all great revolutions, there is one man with a vision.

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Post #7

Post by Danmark »

whatsit wrote:
2) Is claiming to be science while not meeting the criteria a case of fraud (or at least false) claim?
www.utm.edu/staff/jfieser/class/120/6-knowledge.htm
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Post #8

Post by whatsit »

a large part of that article is direclly related to this discussion.
shall i copy/paste it instead?
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Post #9

Post by DanieltheDragon »

[Replying to post 8 by whatsit]

You could quote the relevant bits and use the link as a reference to your argument. A good structure to follow is:

Make your case in the first paragraph use a quote to support it and use the link as a citation.

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Post #10

Post by whatsit »

almost the entire page is relevant.

contrary to what some would like for you to believe, science isn't the end all, be all when it comes to the acquisition of knowledge.

the piece also spells out various errors people make in this regard.

so, what should i do in this regard?
copy/paste the entire piece?

i've been accused far too many times on this site of quote mining.

you know what they say "darned if you do and darned if you don't"
in all great revolutions, there is one man with a vision.

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