If I can't forgive you, should I leave this place?

[99percentatheism]

I have been here for quite some time now. I claim to be a Christian. That declaration means something. I have seen what I would define as abject unfairness to Christians here. Unless of course you are a liberal or progressive religionist.

The Orthodox, historic voice of Christian reality is so attacked here, (and that attack seems welcomed and encouraged by the "powers that be" here), I see hardly a way to forgive the authorties for allowing the persecutions to continue without cease.

Where are these so-called civil and respectful, intelligent, thoughtful and challenging discussions? It is a Christian-bash fest here. If you do not kowtow to progressive and humanistic morality, that attack is simply like a pack of wolves on a lamb. And Darwin forbid if the lamb fights back in kind.

If "I" cannot find a way to forgive the attacks on me over and over and over again, should I leave, or continue being denigrated in concert from so many different yet connected sides?

What good is a so-called "debate" when there is none?

[99percentatheism]

I find that quite often, how people treat others is the way they get treated in return.

If you find that people are being 'hateful', consistantly to you, perhaps, it is time to look at your own behavior, and seeing if your own behavior is not being reflected upon you.

Disagreement is not being hateful. Disagreement can be perfectly respectful. However, there are some gems of wisdom in the bible to consider when it comes to personal behavior, and how people respond.

Proverbs 15:1
A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.

Proverbs 15:18
A hot-tempered man stirs up dissension, but a patient man calms a quarrel.

Proverbs 14:29
A patient man has great understanding, but a quick-tempered man displays folly.


and from the New Testament.

Colossians 3:8
But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips.

Hmmm, cafeteria quotations? Since you (an atheist) is calling on the authority of scripture . . . let's have at it. Shall we?

Here's some other Biblical quotes:

John 15:

18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

John 14:

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

[Divine Insight]

If I answer this the way it deserves, I will be banned by the end of the day. But the vitriol in your lengthy bash piece is typical I must say.

What you don't seem to understand it that the vitriol isn't aimed at you, or any other modern day person.

I find the Hebrew mythology of God to be highly immoral and an insult to the decency of humanity. In fact, I feel that it would also be an insult to any God that might actually exist.

I'm not about to pretend that ancient Hebrew immorality is respectable. IMHO, it's not respectable, and I'm not going to condone it, or support it as being respectable.

If you take personal exception to that, this is entirely your own problem.

Also, if you want to believe in ancient Hebrew stories, more power to you. But if you're going to try to convince me that they came from some God you're not going to get very far.

[otseng]

Why is there over 90-views and why are non Mods answering me? There are only a handful of Mods right?

I thought I posed this question to the Mod board members? Not the mob.

You never mentioned anything about addressing a moderator in your post.

If I can't forgive you, should I leave this place?

There's really only one reason you should leave ... if you can't follow the rules, which you clearly have shown you cannot. You rank #3 in reported posts and you have been placed on probation twice.

I'm tired of you blaming everyone else for your violations - the moderators, the atheists, the principalities, etc. You have yet to acknowledge that you violate the rules or even express any indication that you want to follow the rules.

There is no unfairness to Christians here. Christians and non-Christians alike have been censored here. The mod team consists of both Christians and non-Christians.

The Orthodox, historic voice of Christian reality is so attacked here

That comes as a surprise? If you don't want Christianity to be attacked, then this is not the place for you.

I see hardly a way to forgive the authorties for allowing the persecutions to continue without cease.

Attacking Christianity on this forum is not persecution. If you were being denied human rights, then that would be persecution.

If you do not kowtow to progressive and humanistic morality, that attack is simply like a pack of wolves on a lamb. And Darwin forbid if the lamb fights back in kind.

One is allowed to attack beliefs here, but not people. One is allowed to fight back using logical arguments, but one is not allowed to attack back by personal insults.

If "I" cannot find a way to forgive the attacks on me over and over and over again, should I leave, or continue being denigrated in concert from so many different yet connected sides?

If someone attacks your belief and you cannot handle it, then you should leave. This is the nature of this forum; beliefs will be attacked. What we do not allow here is personal attacks. And if you cannot debate without resorting to personal attacks, then you should leave.

[iamtaka]

I have been here for quite some time now. I claim to be a Christian. That declaration means something. I have seen what I would define as abject unfairness to Christians here. Unless of course you are a liberal or progressive religionist.

I do not personally find the moderation to be unbalanced (i.e., favoring non-Christians or Christians). Though, I also do not agree with the moderation or rules. I think they should go further, but compared to many discussions forums this one is certain a notch above.

On the other hand, the discussion is unfairly balanced. That is, non-secular or secular influenced perspectives have a much higher presence here than more orthodox or conservation Christian ones.

The Orthodox, historic voice of Christian reality is so attacked here, (and that attack seems welcomed and encouraged by the "powers that be" here), I see hardly a way to forgive the authorties for allowing the persecutions to continue without cease.

The Christian perspective is certainly 'attacked' (i.e., critique with undue harshness). While I can certainly understand some of the harshness, I think it goes too far sometimes. That's particularly why I asked for clarification on 'attacks.' And this is one of those places which cause great disappointment to me with the forums. I feel, given the often deep connection between beliefs and identity, that such attacks should be disallowed. However, it seems the powers that be consider it fair game for the time being. So, my suggestion is to avoid emotional responses and demonstrate the emotion involved in such attacks.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 11 by 99percentatheism]

Where do you get off replying to someone that is using the bible and calling their verse usage cafeteria quotes. You are constantly rude like that from what I can tell of your posts. How did you make Goat feel for using his bible?

[Goat]

Hmmm, cafeteria quotations? Since you (an atheist) is calling on the authority of scripture . . . let's have at it. Shall we?

Here's some other Biblical quotes:

John 15:

18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

John 14:

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

So, you think these quotes justify rude and aggressive behavior? Quite often, it is not the belief, but rather a persons behavior that gets responded to.

[Haven]

99, "persecution" is what evangelicals are doing to LGBT people in Uganda.

Your beliefs being criticized and scrutinized on an Internet forum dedicated to religious debate is decidedly not persecution. Early Roman Christians, who actually did face physical violence for their religious beliefs, would scoff at your whining about "persecution" on a message board.

If you want to experience real persecution of Christians, go to Iran and start to proselytize about your faith -- you'll see what it means to be persecuted then. But please, please save your sanctimonious whining about being "persecuted" because some here, on a debate forum, have had the gall to call you on your nonsense.

You -- a presumably white, straight, Christian male living in America -- don't know what persecution is. You've never experienced it. You've been in a position of absolute privilege your entire life, and now that people you don't like are beginning to sniff equality, you're whining about how your rights are being violated.

Let me make this absolutely clear: the fact that it's no longer acceptable in our society for people like you to oppress people like me does not mean you are being persecuted. One doesn't have the right to strip other people of their human rights.

[99percentatheism]

Hmmm, cafeteria quotations? Since you (an atheist) is calling on the authority of scripture . . . let's have at it. Shall we?

Here's some other Biblical quotes:

John 15:

18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you."

John 14:

6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."


John 1:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men.

5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

So, you think these quotes justify rude and aggressive behavior? Quite often, it is not the belief, but rather a persons behavior that gets responded to.

If you want to quote scripture as authoritative, then scripture is authoritative.

Though I find it rather odd that an atheist would do what you did. Not surprising, just odd. What I have found here is the usual treatment of the mocking and denigration of scripture routine.

All I did was answer your quotes with other quotes.

Nothing more and nothing less. I can't believe for a moment that you are offended by my usage of the same method you employed.

[cnorman18]

[Replying to post 18 by 99percentatheism]

You wanted to hear from a moderator. You got a rather comprehensive reply to your complaint from Otseng himself -- not only a moderator, but the (conservative Christian) owner of this forum.

Why don't you respond to that post?

[Nilloc James]

Not quite 99:

by quoting scripture one can reveal contradictions in the world view of those who take the bible to be (pun intended) holy scripture.

This argumentation style is similar to reductio ad absurdum arguments.

________

This is just basic logic and argumentation. Maybe you should try fully understanding opposing posts and understanding what criticisms are before you have a knee jerk reaction to them. What is the harm in taking the most optimistic interpretation of opposing posts?