Can i call homosexuality a sin?

[OpenYourEyes]

Some have implied that I'm a homophobe or bigot just because I called homosexuality a 'sin'. If so that would make Christian beliefs held by billions of people a sin.

But then i found this from an admin. which is compatible with the rules.

.
Let me say that attacking homosexuality is tolerated here. Any belief system is allowed to be attacked. This includes homosexuality, Christianity, atheism, etc.

Homosexuality is a particularly sensitive topic. It is probably the most contentious issue on the forum since the very founding of this place. Many people attempt to skirt the line of personally attacking another when debating this issue. But really the only time a moderator would step in is when the line is crossed of personally attacking another.

So i can attack homosexuality in a 'civil' manner w/out having to be labelled a bigot and w/out violating forum rules, right Zzyzx?

[Beyonder]

Attack members=Ban
Free Speech=Ok
Very basic here.

[Danmark]

You dont like it when people equate homosexuality with all other sins but it is simple theology. All sins, pedophilia, polygamy, incest are as equally sinful as homosexuality.

You left out adultery and fornication... and masturbation... and looking lustfully at women you are not married to.
Is it a greater sin to look lustfully at a person of the same sex?

Then there's the really big one, Leviticus 19:19,
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material."
I agree with that one, especially about polyester blends.

Then of course there are some instant death penalty sins, like touching the Ark of the Covenant while not wearing the right clothes. I guess that one is way worse than pedophilia.
Speaking of pedophilia, please remind me of the chapter and verse that makes that a sin. And while you're at it, I can't find the verse that makes polygamy a sin either.

[OpenYourEyes]

You dont like it when people equate homosexuality with all other sins but it is simple theology. All sins, pedophilia, polygamy, incest are as equally sinful as homosexuality.

You left out adultery and fornication... and masturbation... and looking lustfully at women you are not married to.
Is it a greater sin to look lustfully at a person of the same sex?

Then there's the really big one, Leviticus 19:19,
“You shall keep my statutes. You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind. You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material."
I agree with that one, especially about polyester blends.

Then of course there are some instant death penalty sins, like touching the Ark of the Covenant while not wearing the right clothes. I guess that one is way worse than pedophilia.
Speaking of pedophilia, please remind me of the chapter and verse that makes that a sin. And while you're at it, I can't find the verse that makes polygamy a sin either.

Let me refer you to Catholic references on the matter:

When the Gospel had been duly promulgated the civil and ceremonial precepts of the Law of Moses became not only useless, but false and superstitious, and thus forbidden.

It was otherwise with the moral precepts of the Mosaic Law. The Master expressly taught that the observance of these, inasmuch as they are prescribed by nature herself, is necessary for salvation — "If thou wouldst enter into life keep the commandments", — those well-known precepts of the Decalogue.

Source: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09071a.htm

Polygamy is very simple to explain. The Catholic Church rejects it. It is against natural law, for instance refer to Tertullian's De Monogomia, chapter 4:

Even in the very animals monogamy is recognised, for fear that even beasts should be born of adultery. “Out of all beasts,� said (God), “out of all flesh, two shall you lead into the ark, that they may live with you, male and female: they shall be (taken) from all flying animals according to (their) kind, and from all creepers of the earth according to their kind; two out of all shall enter unto you, male and female.� In the same formula, too, He orders sets of sevens, made up of pairs, to be gathered to him, consisting of male and female— one male and one female. What more shall I say? Even unclean birds were not allowed to enter with two females each.

Source: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0406.htm

All of your points has been addressed by the Catholic Church. In general, I'll even add that virtually all atheistic objections to the Christian faith has been refuted, look up sources from Christian apologists, like Dr. Craig, JP Moreland, Swinburne, Dr. James White, etc - that is if you are 'truly' looking for answers.

[Danmark]

[Replying to post 23 by OpenYourEyes]

You are citing the Catholic church and its positions and traditions, not the Bible itself.
Do you or the Catholic church, claim their pronouncements are superior authority to the Bible? Many Christians certainly disagree. Pope Francis has set a good tone, but the record of the Catholic church demonstrates it is pathetically fallible. It has supported slavery, covered up atrocities, claimed the Sun revolves around the Earth; that the Earth does not move. It has consistently covered up child abuse, homosexual child abuse, by its priests. The Roman Catholic church is human institution that has been alternately plagued and blessed by its leadership. To cite it as godly authority is a bad joke.

The examples of its failures are both ancient and modern.

There is a Roman Catholic priest at a medieval church an hour's drive from Paris who has been indicted by a United Nations court for genocide, extermination, murder and rape in Rwanda.
Father Wenceslas Munyeshyaka was notorious during the 1994 genocide of 800,000 Tutsis for wearing a gun on his hip and colluding with the Hutu militia that murdered hundreds of people sheltering in his church. A Rwandan court convicted the priest of genocide and sentenced him in absentia to life in prison. The International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda spent years trying to bring him to trial.
But the Catholic church in France does not see any of this as a bar to serving as a priest and has gone out of its way to defend Munyeshyaka.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... de-vatican

The history of the church's failures and atrocities is easily documented by many sources.
http://listverse.com/2011/06/08/top-10- ... c-history/

But I am not condemning the Catholic church, despite its very human nature and failures. I am making the case that it does not speak for God; that its authority as anything more than a human institution is nil.

[Elijah John]

[Replying to post 10 by Haven]

You will not take away my First Amendment right, whether it be on this forum or offline. Do YOU understand that, sir?

Moderator Comment

While freedom of speech and the limits thereof is certainly a debatable issue, this post is somewhat antagonistic and uncivil in tone.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Danmark]

Some have implied that I'm a homophobe or bigot just because I called homosexuality a 'sin'. If so that would make Christian beliefs held by billions of people a sin.

The logic train just jumped the track. Considering homosexuality a sin does not automatically make all Christians sinners, just the ones who obsess on it and treat others with contempt and unfairness. One can consider something a "sin" but recognize others do not come to that conclusion. Also, many fine Christians and Jews do not consider it a sin.
How Evangelicals Are Changing Their Minds on Gay Marriage
http://time.com/3669024/evangelicals-gay-marriage/

In the past two decades, several other religious groups also have moved to allow same-sex couples to marry within their traditions. This includes the Reform and Conservative Jewish movements, the Unitarian Universalist Association and the United Church of Christ.
And the list is growing: Clergy from the Episcopal Church will be able to perform same-sex marriage ceremonies after the church’s General Convention approved a new definition of marriage this week. Another mainline Protestant denomination, the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), voted to formally sanction same-sex marriage earlier this year.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... -marriage/

In response to the latest gay-bashing vote in North Carolina, evangelical writer and speaker Rachel Held Evans wrote an impassioned plea to her fellow Christians to just cut it out. She points to statistics showing how much damage the church has sustained because of its anti-gay crusade. Research conducted by the pro-Christian Barna Group in 2007 on Americans age 16-29 found that “anti-homosexual� was the dominant perception of modern Christians. Ninety-one percent of non-Christians and 80 percent of Christians in this group used this word to describe Christians.
She also points to research documented in the book You Lost Me by David Kinnaman showing that 59 percent of teenagers who grow up as church-going Christians abandon their faith in adulthood. One of the major reasons is the gay rights issue. Overall, the perception--a largely correct one, I’d add--is that modern conservative Christianity is dominated by sex-phobic bigots who use God as a cudgel to beat all sorts of people, but especially gays and lesbians. No wonder many in the younger generation want out.
http://www.alternet.org/story/155462/ho ... ung_people

[postroad]

There seems to be an extensive list of those who will go to hell alongside the homosexuals.


1 Corinthians 6:8-10New International Version (NIV)

8 Instead, you yourselves cheat and do wrong, and you do this to your brothers and sisters. 9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8 [Full Chapter]

But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.�

[Danmark]

When it comes to this "homosexuals are sinners" theme popular with many fundamentalist Muslims and Christians, I think of the Pharisees who sought to catch Jesus and his disciples for "plucking the heads of grain on the Sabbath" for violating the law.
The reply of Jesus:
“The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath," is instructive.
We've repeatedly seen this irrational and indefensible claim that homosexual relationships between consenting adults is the equivalent of sexually molesting children.

This anti homosexual breast beating, this declaration of sin, seems very much like the approach of the Pharisees, that "man was made for the Sabbath;" that the law is more important than the people for whom the law was made.

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 1 by OpenYourEyes]

What makes anything a sin and then why does homosexuality fall in that category?

[Wootah]

*Note: this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not a moderator or administrator.*

I think simply calling homosexuality a "sin" in the context of your Christian beliefs isn't uncivil, especially if you're debating an argument and not attacking a person. On the other hand, I definitely think that comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, rape, or incest, claiming it will result in divine judgment, or claiming that people with homosexual orientations (lesbians and gays, not "homosexuals" [that term is often taken for offensive]) are destroying the nation/country/world is uncivil and deeply offensive.

You dont like it when people equate homosexuality with all other sins but it is simple theology. All sins, pedophilia, polygamy, incest are as equally sinful as homosexuality. Thats Bible and historical Church teaching. But if you cant accept that then its not too far of a jump before some like you will try to keep people from calling homosexuality a sin regardless of if its compared to other sins.

Now you dont want me to use the word 'homosexual'? Can i also recommend that gay forum members not use the words " gay" and "marriage" together?

I think you should include premarital sex. Actually I think Christians might be best only by saying that premarital sexual acts are a sin. What do you think?

And of course sexual sin is only one area of where we sin.