Can i call homosexuality a sin?

[OpenYourEyes]

Some have implied that I'm a homophobe or bigot just because I called homosexuality a 'sin'. If so that would make Christian beliefs held by billions of people a sin.

But then i found this from an admin. which is compatible with the rules.

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Let me say that attacking homosexuality is tolerated here. Any belief system is allowed to be attacked. This includes homosexuality, Christianity, atheism, etc.

Homosexuality is a particularly sensitive topic. It is probably the most contentious issue on the forum since the very founding of this place. Many people attempt to skirt the line of personally attacking another when debating this issue. But really the only time a moderator would step in is when the line is crossed of personally attacking another.

So i can attack homosexuality in a 'civil' manner w/out having to be labelled a bigot and w/out violating forum rules, right Zzyzx?

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 1 by OpenYourEyes]

Don't attack forum members. That's the ultimate ideal of this forum, from what I understand. If you can insult/attack a general characteristic of individuals without attacking members of the forum that hold those characteristics, that would be... something to see.

[otseng]

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Let me say that attacking homosexuality is tolerated here. Any belief system is allowed to be attacked. This includes homosexuality, Christianity, atheism, etc.

Homosexuality is a particularly sensitive topic. It is probably the most contentious issue on the forum since the very founding of this place. Many people attempt to skirt the line of personally attacking another when debating this issue. But really the only time a moderator would step in is when the line is crossed of personally attacking another.

Yes, this still stands true.

So i can attack homosexuality in a 'civil' manner w/out having to be labelled a bigot and w/out violating forum rules, right Zzyzx?

Yes, this is possible, but it's not easy.

I think the key is the tone of your posts. If people discern that you are here to preach against homosexuals / attempt to convert them / here only to attack homosexuality, then it'll be read as a personal attack.

You'll need to evaluate everything that you post, esp when posting something that someone can take personally. How would people interpret what I say? Am I being respectful to other forum members? Can I back up everything I claim? Am I coming across that I'm just here to preach?

[OpenYourEyes]

To speak from the perspective of a Christian, i would say just calling homosexuality a sin does not mean that im trying to convert anyone or express bigotry.

Based on a previous discussion between you and I, i will continue to condemn homosexual lifestyle and equate it to all other sins when relevant.

[Divine Insight]

To speak from the perspective of a Christian, i would say just calling homosexuality a sin does not mean that im trying to convert anyone or express bigotry.

Based on a previous discussion between you and I, i will continue to condemn homosexual lifestyle and equate it to all other sins when relevant.

On something like this you're simply better off being more precise in your declarations. You can say, "As a Christian I have faith that Yahweh exists and that he hates homosexuality and has proclaimed it to be a sin".

I don't see anything wrong with that.

But telling other people that homosexuality is a sin in any absolute sense is actually wrong. There is no evidence to support that these ancient claims ever came from any actual God named Yahweh.

So it's only a sin in the eyes of those who believe on faith that Yahweh is God. And even everyone in that camp doesn't agree on that. There exist Christians who argue that this claim cannot be supported by scriptures. There are even "Gay Christians" who have started Churches in the name of Jesus Christ proclaiming that the New Covenant that Jesus brought is one of love, forgiveness, and acceptance. And they argue that the Old Testament Covenant no longer applies anyway.

Of course that's a debate for Christians to have between themselves.

But for a Christian to tell a non-Christian that homosexuality is a sin, is actually quite meaningless. Christianity is nothing more than a faith-based belief to begin with. So if you believe that homosexuality is a sin, it's only because you have placed your faith in that belief. Not because you can demonstrate that there is any absolute truth to the charge. Because in truth, that can't be demonstrated.

[Haven]

*Note: this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not a moderator or administrator.*

I think simply calling homosexuality a "sin" in the context of your Christian beliefs isn't uncivil, especially if you're debating an argument and not attacking a person. On the other hand, I definitely think that comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, rape, or incest, claiming it will result in divine judgment, or claiming that people with homosexual orientations (lesbians and gays, not "homosexuals" [that term is often taken for offensive]) are destroying the nation/country/world is uncivil and deeply offensive.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 6 by Haven]
Going back 60 years--
everyone I knew as a teenage boy regarded homosexuality as a sin, even an abomination, regardless of whether they were Christians or not--and religion was not anything teenage boys gave any thought about.
And from my perspective now with more experience of life, I think that those of us (boys) who spoke the most nastily about homosexuality were themselves practicing homosexuals. Their way of diverting suspicion from themselves was to denounce such practices and those who performed them. You know, the kind of people who write on bathroom walls. They got the side-benefit of talking and fantasizing about what they themselves acknowledged was perversion.
But what's worse and stupider is that women took the PC chant as something flattering to themselves, I guess, that some males were willing to do what their sex was naturally inclined to do. With the consequence that they and their children risk living in poverty in future years when all the queen's pension and goods goes to the boyfriend.

[Zzyzx]

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Going back 60 years--
everyone I knew as a teenage boy regarded homosexuality as a sin, even an abomination, regardless of whether they were Christians or not--

Going back sixty years many people regarded "Whites Only" drinking fountains, restaurants, and bus seating as appropriate and necessary. Going back a little more and many thought women should not be allowed to vote – a little more and many approved of human slavery.

So what? Does that prove something?

and religion was not anything teenage boys gave any thought about.

In that era there were considerable numbers of fanatically religious teenage boys – just as there are now. Their numbers may have declined along with the overall decline in religion in the US; however, they certainly did exist then as they do now.

My memory does not seem to have dimmed or distorted with the passing of decades. Some contemporaries seem to have difficulty.

And from my perspective now with more experience of life, I think that those of us (boys) who spoke the most nastily about homosexuality were themselves practicing homosexuals.

It is not uncommon for homophobes to be outwardly condemning while actually practicing exactly what they preach against.

Their way of diverting suspicion from themselves was to denounce such practices and those who performed them.

I do not disagree.

You know, the kind of people who write on bathroom walls. They got the side-benefit of talking and fantasizing about what they themselves acknowledged was perversion.

I have no knowledge of the motivations of those who write on bathroom walls -- but leave such pontifications to those who profess such knowledge.

But what's worse and stupider is that women took the PC chant as something flattering to themselves, I guess, that some males were willing to do what their sex was naturally inclined to do.

What, exactly, is "what their sex [gender] naturally inclined to do?

With the consequence that they and their children risk living in poverty in future years when all the queen's pension and goods goes to the boyfriend.

Does this somehow make sense and/or apply to the discussion?

[OpenYourEyes]

*Note: this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not a moderator or administrator.*

I think simply calling homosexuality a "sin" in the context of your Christian beliefs isn't uncivil, especially if you're debating an argument and not attacking a person. On the other hand, I definitely think that comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, rape, or incest, claiming it will result in divine judgment, or claiming that people with homosexual orientations (lesbians and gays, not "homosexuals" [that term is often taken for offensive]) are destroying the nation/country/world is uncivil and deeply offensive.

You dont like it when people equate homosexuality with all other sins but it is simple theology. All sins, pedophilia, polygamy, incest are as equally sinful as homosexuality. Thats Bible and historical Church teaching. But if you cant accept that then its not too far of a jump before some like you will try to keep people from calling homosexuality a sin regardless of if its compared to other sins.

Now you dont want me to use the word 'homosexual'? Can i also recommend that gay forum members not use the words " gay" and "marriage" together?

[Haven]

*Note: this is just my personal opinion, and I'm not a moderator or administrator.*

I think simply calling homosexuality a "sin" in the context of your Christian beliefs isn't uncivil, especially if you're debating an argument and not attacking a person. On the other hand, I definitely think that comparing homosexuality to pedophilia, rape, or incest, claiming it will result in divine judgment, or claiming that people with homosexual orientations (lesbians and gays, not "homosexuals" [that term is often taken for offensive]) are destroying the nation/country/world is uncivil and deeply offensive.

You dont like it when people equate homosexuality with all other sins but it is simple theology. All sins, pedophilia, polygamy, incest are as equally sinful as homosexuality. Thats Bible and historical Church teaching. But if you cant accept that then its not too far of a jump before some like you will try to keep people from calling homosexuality a sin regardless of if its compared to other sins.

Now you dont want me to use the word 'homosexual'? Can i also recommend that gay forum members not use the words " gay" and "marriage" together?

If you don't see why this is uncivil, then I'm not sure what I can say. I hope the moderators agree that comparing people who happen to be gay with violent sexual predators and referring to them with offensive homophobic slurs is not only wildly inappropriate but has no place on this forum based on civility.

Also, I don't believe in "gay marriage" -- marriage is marriage, whether the married couple is gay, straight, or otherwise.