Gay marriage

[inviere1644]

Ok, as a moderate gay man I'm always interested to see what people on the liberal and conservative spectrums have to say about this issue. So, is it right or wrong? why or why not?

[Deadclown]

I am beginning to have some difficulties debating with you, even though i seem to be enjoying the debate. I think prior to this debate you are to tell be who you are as regard your belief and make up.

Why should my personal beliefs be important? What do you need to know?

My points remain that every human activity emanates from intuition. When a child is born he comes into the world not knowing right from wrong until he or she is directed. That is why when you feel hungery you don't and plug the eyes of your kid but you go in for food other than human being. in this case we say, " You were directed to make a choice of taste".

I am having trouble following what you are saying. You say that every human activity emanates from intuition (instinct?) but then talk about learned behaviors. In reality, morality is based primarily off of feelings of altruism and empathy, which are genetic. For example of an opposite case to the norm, look at psychopaths who are born lacking these traits. The specifics of how we apply these inbuilt moral principles are determined through nurture into a given culture.

From your point of view everyone has the right to do what is an anormally or say what is perceived as improper. If our being human was without laid down rules, i am not sure you and i will be on the net chatting. Social Norms shapes us and make us co-exist.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. We are talking about whether homosexual marriage is 'right or wrong'. So essentially discussing morality and ethics.

[Switgent]

I am beginning to have some difficulties debating with you, even though i seem to be enjoying the debate. I think prior to this debate you are to tell be who you are as regard your belief and make up.

Why should my personal beliefs be important? What do you need to know?

My points remain that every human activity emanates from intuition. When a child is born he comes into the world not knowing right from wrong until he or she is directed. That is why when you feel hungery you don't and plug the eyes of your kid but you go in for food other than human being. in this case we say, " You were directed to make a choice of taste".

I am having trouble following what you are saying. You say that every human activity emanates from intuition (instinct?) but then talk about learned behaviors. In reality, morality is based primarily off of feelings of altruism and empathy, which are genetic. For example of an opposite case to the norm, look at psychopaths who are born lacking these traits. The specifics of how we apply these inbuilt moral principles are determined through nurture into a given culture.

From your point of view everyone has the right to do what is an anormally or say what is perceived as improper. If our being human was without laid down rules, i am not sure you and i will be on the net chatting. Social Norms shapes us and make us co-exist.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. We are talking about whether homosexual marriage is 'right or wrong'. So essentially discussing morality and ethics.

1. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

2. IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD, We the People of Ghana, in exercise of our natural and inalienable right to establish a framework of government which shall secure for ourselves and posterity the blessings of liberty, equality of opportunity and prosperity;In a spirit of friendship and peace with all peoples of the world; and in solemn declaration and affirmation of our commitment to;
Freedom, Justice, Probity and Accountability; The Principle that all powers of Government spring from the Sovereign Will of the People; The Principle of Universal Adult Suffrage; The Rule of Law; The protection and preservation of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms, Unity and Stability for our Nation;
DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

You Can accept same sex marriage because your constitution was built minus a supreme being. Mine cannot escape the believe in a supreme being so i cannot accept same. The two different preambles of both countries is specific. I hope you understand my point of view.

[Deadclown]

1. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

2. IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD, We the People of Ghana, in exercise of our natural and inalienable right to establish a framework of government which shall secure for ourselves and posterity the blessings of liberty, equality of opportunity and prosperity;In a spirit of friendship and peace with all peoples of the world; and in solemn declaration and affirmation of our commitment to;
Freedom, Justice, Probity and Accountability; The Principle that all powers of Government spring from the Sovereign Will of the People; The Principle of Universal Adult Suffrage; The Rule of Law; The protection and preservation of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms, Unity and Stability for our Nation;
DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

You Can accept same sex marriage because your constitution was built minus a supreme being. Mine cannot escape the believe in a supreme being so i cannot accept same. The two different preambles of both countries is specific. I hope you understand my point of view.

I can try to, but you appear to be confusing rules/laws with morality.

I would hope you could be able to separate the ideas of morality and law. Whether that is law of a country or law from a god. Morality is born of empathy and altruism, and is a measurement of situational harm. It is immoral to harm anyone or anything that can experience the condition. Consensual sex between two human beings (homosexual or otherwise), is not immoral.

If God was to say clearly to the whole world that he commands all of humanity to kill a puppy, the action would be immoral. It would be immoral five minutes before God's order, and five minutes after, equally.

[Autodidact]

I am beginning to have some difficulties debating with you, even though i seem to be enjoying the debate. I think prior to this debate you are to tell be who you are as regard your belief and make up.

Why should my personal beliefs be important? What do you need to know?

My points remain that every human activity emanates from intuition. When a child is born he comes into the world not knowing right from wrong until he or she is directed. That is why when you feel hungery you don't and plug the eyes of your kid but you go in for food other than human being. in this case we say, " You were directed to make a choice of taste".

I am having trouble following what you are saying. You say that every human activity emanates from intuition (instinct?) but then talk about learned behaviors. In reality, morality is based primarily off of feelings of altruism and empathy, which are genetic. For example of an opposite case to the norm, look at psychopaths who are born lacking these traits. The specifics of how we apply these inbuilt moral principles are determined through nurture into a given culture.

From your point of view everyone has the right to do what is an anormally or say what is perceived as improper. If our being human was without laid down rules, i am not sure you and i will be on the net chatting. Social Norms shapes us and make us co-exist.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make here. We are talking about whether homosexual marriage is 'right or wrong'. So essentially discussing morality and ethics.

1. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

2. IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD, We the People of Ghana, in exercise of our natural and inalienable right to establish a framework of government which shall secure for ourselves and posterity the blessings of liberty, equality of opportunity and prosperity;In a spirit of friendship and peace with all peoples of the world; and in solemn declaration and affirmation of our commitment to;
Freedom, Justice, Probity and Accountability; The Principle that all powers of Government spring from the Sovereign Will of the People; The Principle of Universal Adult Suffrage; The Rule of Law; The protection and preservation of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms, Unity and Stability for our Nation;
DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

You Can accept same sex marriage because your constitution was built minus a supreme being. Mine cannot escape the believe in a supreme being so i cannot accept same. The two different preambles of both countries is specific. I hope you understand my point of view.

Well, not being Ghanian and having only the average American's knowledge of West Africa, i.e. probably could not find Ghana on an unlabeled map, I'll still give my opinion...there are millions of people who think the Almighty God is just fine with same-sex marriage, and even if you believe that the Almighty God is the God of the Bible, He never prohibits it. Indeed, Jesus never mentions the subject at all.

[Switgent]

1. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

2. IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD, We the People of Ghana, in exercise of our natural and inalienable right to establish a framework of government which shall secure for ourselves and posterity the blessings of liberty, equality of opportunity and prosperity;In a spirit of friendship and peace with all peoples of the world; and in solemn declaration and affirmation of our commitment to;
Freedom, Justice, Probity and Accountability; The Principle that all powers of Government spring from the Sovereign Will of the People; The Principle of Universal Adult Suffrage; The Rule of Law; The protection and preservation of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms, Unity and Stability for our Nation;
DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

You Can accept same sex marriage because your constitution was built minus a supreme being. Mine cannot escape the believe in a supreme being so i cannot accept same. The two different preambles of both countries is specific. I hope you understand my point of view.

I can try to, but you appear to be confusing rules/laws with morality.

I would hope you could be able to separate the ideas of morality and law. Whether that is law of a country or law from a god. Morality is born of empathy and altruism, and is a measurement of situational harm. It is immoral to harm anyone or anything that can experience the condition. Consensual sex between two human beings (homosexual or otherwise), is not immoral.

If God was to say clearly to the whole world that he commands all of humanity to kill a puppy, the action would be immoral. It would be immoral five minutes before God's order, and five minutes after, equally.

Not immoral to your law; to our law it is immoral. The preamble in constitution states, "In the name of the Almighty God...". our constitution which in itself a law was instituted in the name of an Almight God. If it is indeed, in the name of this Almighty God then he has shown in all religion and who follows him that it is an abormination persons of the same sex to engage in sex, especially through the anus which is meant primarily for defecation. The primary purpose of sex in marriage as ordained by this supreme being is procreation aside pleasure.

Gay marriage satisfy only one aspect; i.e. pleasure. Tell me about artificial insemination. That is what man has to create when he or she decides to go against the natural order.

[Autodidact]

1. We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

2. IN THE NAME OF THE ALMIGHTY GOD, We the People of Ghana, in exercise of our natural and inalienable right to establish a framework of government which shall secure for ourselves and posterity the blessings of liberty, equality of opportunity and prosperity;In a spirit of friendship and peace with all peoples of the world; and in solemn declaration and affirmation of our commitment to;
Freedom, Justice, Probity and Accountability; The Principle that all powers of Government spring from the Sovereign Will of the People; The Principle of Universal Adult Suffrage; The Rule of Law; The protection and preservation of Fundamental Human Rights and Freedoms, Unity and Stability for our Nation;
DO HEREBY ADOPT, ENACT AND GIVE TO OURSELVES THIS CONSTITUTION.

You Can accept same sex marriage because your constitution was built minus a supreme being. Mine cannot escape the believe in a supreme being so i cannot accept same. The two different preambles of both countries is specific. I hope you understand my point of view.

I can try to, but you appear to be confusing rules/laws with morality.

I would hope you could be able to separate the ideas of morality and law. Whether that is law of a country or law from a god. Morality is born of empathy and altruism, and is a measurement of situational harm. It is immoral to harm anyone or anything that can experience the condition. Consensual sex between two human beings (homosexual or otherwise), is not immoral.

If God was to say clearly to the whole world that he commands all of humanity to kill a puppy, the action would be immoral. It would be immoral five minutes before God's order, and five minutes after, equally.

Not immoral to your law; to our law it is immoral. The preamble in constitution states, "In the name of the Almighty God...". our constitution which in itself a law was instituted in the name of an Almight God. If it is indeed, in the name of this Almighty God then he has shown in all religion and who follows him that it is an abormination persons of the same sex to engage in sex, especially through the anus which is meant primarily for defecation. The primary purpose of sex in marriage as ordained by this supreme being is procreation aside pleasure.

Are you talking about the Christian God and Christian Bible? Then you should know that nowhere is it an abomination for two women to do anything, it's not clear exactly what two men are prohibited from doing, and same-sex marriage is not prohibited.

Gay marriage satisfy only one aspect; i.e. pleasure. Tell me about artificial insemination. That is what man has to create when he or she decides to go against the natural order.

So you're not familiar with love? That's so sad. I hope you find out about it.

[Deadclown]

Not immoral to your law; to our law it is immoral. The preamble in constitution states, "In the name of the Almighty God...". our constitution which in itself a law was instituted in the name of an Almight God. If it is indeed, in the name of this Almighty God then he has shown in all religion and who follows him that it is an abormination persons of the same sex to engage in sex, especially through the anus which is meant primarily for defecation. The primary purpose of sex in marriage as ordained by this supreme being is procreation aside pleasure.

Gay marriage satisfy only one aspect; i.e. pleasure. Tell me about artificial insemination. That is what man has to create when he or she decides to go against the natural order.

I assume that English isn't your first language. It is very possible we are having a communications issue. So, please read this carefully...

Laws are not morality. Morality is not legality. A law can be immoral. It can be moral to disobey the law.

The laws of your land and your opinion of what your God wants, have no impact whatsover on the morality of an issue.

Now, the rest of your opinions are pretty insulting for homosexual people, but nothing I have not seen before. Autodidact's reply is better than anything I'd say on the subject.

[Choir Loft]

Ok, as a moderate gay man I'm always interested to see what people on the liberal and conservative spectrums have to say about this issue. So, is it right or wrong? why or why not?

This discussion is obscene in the extreme.

On the one hand we have people who wish to express their affection for one another in some sort of official way. They choose to build a relationship and add to society.

On the other hand American society worships, to the point of fetishism, the militaristic actions of destruction and killing.

Is there no end to American hypocrisy?

We express our support for those who murder and destroy other nations and then debate whether it is 'right' for somebody to marry in peace, to build a family and to contribute peacefully to society.

AMERICA, pull your head out of the sand and pay attention to the things which truly matter.

MAKE LOVE NOT WAR.

[Switgent]

Not immoral to your law; to our law it is immoral. The preamble in constitution states, "In the name of the Almighty God...". our constitution which in itself a law was instituted in the name of an Almight God. If it is indeed, in the name of this Almighty God then he has shown in all religion and who follows him that it is an abormination persons of the same sex to engage in sex, especially through the anus which is meant primarily for defecation. The primary purpose of sex in marriage as ordained by this supreme being is procreation aside pleasure.

Gay marriage satisfy only one aspect; i.e. pleasure. Tell me about artificial insemination. That is what man has to create when he or she decides to go against the natural order.

I assume that English isn't your first language. It is very possible we are having a communications issue. So, please read this carefully...

Laws are not morality. Morality is not legality. A law can be immoral. It can be moral to disobey the law.

The laws of your land and your opinion of what your God wants, have no impact whatsover on the morality of an issue.

Now, the rest of your opinions are pretty insulting for homosexual people, but nothing I have not seen before. Autodidact's reply is better than anything I'd say on the subject.

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

[Autodidact]

So now let us begin the debate. Legality and Morality; Definition of morality; what makes an act moral or immoral. Does legalizing gay marriage makes it moral?

No. There is no relationship between whether something is legal and whether it's moral.

Legality and Morality.

What is lawful may be immoral. We ask, how do we then define moral:- involving right and wrong: relating to issues of right and wrong and to how individual people should behave. What is immoral? Defying moral principles: contrary to accepted moral principles.

For me, it's about compassion for others and reducing suffering in the world. Love and honesty are moral, and bigotry and lies are immoral. How about you?

Where does gay marriage fall in this line of argument? Is homosexuality an immoral act or a moral act.

Moral.

We can get this from the definition of morality and immorality. The key word is 'accepted principles'. So without legality a society then can decide what to perceive as moral or immoral and homosexuality cannot excape this test. In the United states not all states agree on gay marriage. What then will be the reason for not allowing it. May be it is immoral in the eyes of the law. Take this bite and let me come back again.

The law says nothing about what is moral and what is immoral. It only tells us what is legal and what is illegal.