Does God exist?

[otseng]

Does God exist? What reasons are there to believe that God is real?


Admin note:
This thread used to be called "Does God exist or not?"
I have renamed this thread to be "Does God exist?"
Another thread has been created to discuss God's nonexistence, "Disproving God".

[ST88]

I always wondered what goes on inside an atheist's head: o wait, nothing.

cpoteet:

I realize some of the discussions may get heated, but please treat other members -- ALL other members -- with respect. We all disagree, but that is no reason for us to insult each other.

From the rules:
13. In general, all members are to be civil and respectful.

[ENIGMA]

I hereby request evidence for the first point.

Dude, don't know you're history? Study the nomads running around the Fertile Crescent.

Yes, and you have made a claim that ALL of them pondered about a creator. Please provide evidence to support this claim or retract it.

I always wondered what goes on inside an atheist's head: o wait, nothing.

Only after we're dead.
I'm not dead yet, so support your claim or retract it.

[mrmufin]

1. Every human being to the most primitive civilization has recorded history of pondering about a Creator.
2. Therefore, God exists (he has left his mark).

For the sake of argument, let's assume that every human being --including the very lovely msmufin and myself-- has pondered about a creator. So what? We certainly did not all arrive at the same conclusions. Perhaps the lack of observational data of such pondered creators explains the wide variety of worldviews, including the view that such described creator(s) probably do not exist. Pondered-only creators are consistent with things which exist purely as mental constructs: justice, algebra, trust, opinion exemplify some things which we refer to despite their nonexistence in some tangible, discernable form.

Therefore, no firm conclusions or consequences can be made regarding pondered creators.

I always wondered what goes on inside an atheist's head: o wait, nothing.

A perfect example of how pondering may lead to incorrect conclusions. Check!

Regards,
mrmufin

[bernee51]

...

Do I hear the sound of ruffled feathers. Kitchen getting too hot. Resorting to ad hominems is a sign of intellectual paucity.

[bernee] I dispute that Jesus existed - there is no contemprorary evidence. As to healing the sick and performing miracles. All a folk tale.
O really? Do you believe Julius Ceaser existed? Because we have only 4 historical documents to prove that he lived,...

Read about some secular historian accounts.
http://marshill.org/Jesus%20the%20Messi ... _Jesus.htm.

Typical of many who profess to be christians. They somehow think that we who disagee have not read their propoganda. If we had read it we would have to believe

...but we have over 100 (outside of the Bible) to prove that He existed.

There is not one contemporaneous account of his existence. And the heresay that supports his life is contradictory.

[cpoteet]

We certainly did not all arrive at the same conclusions.

This is the Argument from Inconsistent Revelations.

Typical of many who profess to be christians. They somehow think that we who disagee have not read their propoganda. If we had read it we would have to believe

Nope, remember? We are debating predestination. The Bible clearly professes that no one understands God or the Bible until He saves them.

Romans 3:10-13
as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one." "Their throat is an open grave; they use their tongues to deceive." "The venom of asps is under their lips."

It's not about "reading our propoganda." I agree that someone who gives you a Bible and asks: "bernee: how could not see God and Jesus in this book?" is ludicrous. I experienced that when I searched through Christianity. They asked: "How is that he is not a Christian yet?" The truth is that I was not regenerated yet. I see, understand, and agree with your point, but the predestination explains my point. There is so much more the predestination: there is depravity of man, eternal security, and more.

http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... =6689#6689

[The Hungry Atheist]

The Bible clearly professes that no one understands God or the Bible until He saves them.

All you're saying here is that anyone who disagrees and doesn't believe the Bible to be the word of God simply doesn't understand yet, because God hasn't chosen to enlighten them. Which must be true, of course, because it says so in the Bible.

Anyway, if this is true, what chance does that give us? I'm quite happy to be "saved", as soon as God chooses to do so, but until then I'm apparently not going to have a chance of making any sense of the Bible; but apparently it's not my fault any more, which is a relief.

[dangerdan]

a Every human being to the most primitive civilization has recorded history of pondering about a Creator.

b Therefore, God exists (he has left his mark).

What, they all exist?

[mrmufin]

We certainly did not all arrive at the same conclusions.

This is the Argument from Inconsistent Revelations.

Was my point refuted, or just labeled?

The Bible clearly professes that no one understands God or the Bible until He saves them.

And nobody understood The Well-Tempered Clavier like Bach. So how do we, the non-saved, distinguish between those who really have been saved and the posers? As well, how can those who (allegedly) have been saved be certain that they were not on the receiving end of a skillfully perpetrated Lokian prank? For if one supernatural explanation can be useful, how does one determine where plausability ends and nonsense starts?

Regards,
mrmufin

[concerro]

Typical of many who profess to be christians. They somehow think that we who disagee have not read their propoganda. If we had read it we would have to believe

Nope, remember? We are debating predestination. The Bible clearly professes that no one understands God or the Bible until He saves them.

why should I become saved if I have no reason to beleive the bible and why should I beleive it if I cant understand it.

another point is this---->There are many "saved" people and they still cant agree on what is meant by the bible because if they did Christianity would not have so many different denominations. So unless there is another requirement to understanding the bible I think that counts as at least one bible flaw in a suposedly divine work. Are you trying to tell me your God cant make a perfect book, or are you going to say it has mistakes so I can say why should I beleive it if I dont know which things are true and which things are not.
Using the bible to prove itself would be like asking me am I right(about anything), and then asking me how I know, then accepting the answer of because I said so. You cant be your own proving authority

[kimberly5699]

There are historical (tangible) items that have been found to prove that Jesus did exist. Jesus was God in The flesh, while it is natural to demand to see with our eyes the Bible clearly states greater is he that doesn't see and still believes than he who has seen. Take a look around you at the beautiful things on this earth, they were created by God. Everything in this world is in perfect balance and there is order in everything, it is the same with the Bible. The Bible is the oldest document that absolutely 100% proves the existence of God.