Fine tuning of the Universe

[Mr.Badham]

I'm confused, because it seems like the argument could go both ways.

Either the universe is fine tuned for life, and therefore is full of it, or only Earth is fine tuned for life, and the rest of the universe will have none of it.

I want theists to take a stand right here and say;

The universe is fine tuned, and is full of life.

Or

The Earth is fine tuned, the rest of the universe has none of it.

Then I want you to stake your religiosity on it. If you make the claim, one way or the other, and are shown to be wrong, you will then become an atheist.

If you are not willing to do this, I would like you to proclaim that the argument is bogus, and should never be used.

You have 1 of 3 options;
The universe is full of life.
Only earth has life.
The fine tuning argument is bogus and should never be used.

[Divine Insight]

One thing for absolute certain is that the universe (nor earth) is fined tuned for human life. There are simply far too many hazards for human life.

If the universe were fine tuned for human life, then why is there any disease at all?

[Bust Nak]

If a uranium mine, with a refinery on top of it turns out a million tons of rock and a couple of kilos of plutonium, would that indicate that the whole shebang wasn't fine-tuned to produce plutonium?

That would be analogious to a painting filled with vibrant red (plutonium,) so by my analogy that actually indicate that the refinery IS fine-tuned to produce plutonium. It is the uranium deposite that isn't fine tuned, which is mostly black (rock) with a speck of red (plutonium.)

[Excubis]

Well I got enough sleep to hopefully explain my model. I will be making some illustrations and post those later for now I will do my best to verbally explain.

1.) Dark Energy the force that is attributed to the expansion and Dark Matter the term used to define the unknown source of gravity that is found readily throughout our observable universe. Are actual manifestations of space time(ST) interacting with physical matter.

2.) ST(space time) is not a linear flat plane, but are 1 dimensional bands.

Analogy: think of ST as a rubber band and physical matter as a marble, now secure the band at one point and place the marble at the secured point, and pull the band in opposite direction of where it is secured, what happens?. Well nothing will happen due to friction, but if we eliminate friction, the marble will move in accordance to the direction the band is stretched. It will also speed up as it gets closer to the end of the band due to the cumulative energy that builds behind the marble in the band. Why does it accumulate, well the marble is displacing the structure of the band and the energy is the manifestation of the band trying to right its shape, this energy has no where to go the closer the marble gets to one end of the band so its energy gets put back behind the marble which pushes the marble forward faster.

Now this does not over turn Special Relativity in anyway only the model as space time as a linear plane. The curvature of light occurs the same as per Einstein predicted, and has been shown to be true. How? well we are able to view stars behind the Sun, the shear mass of the sun bends ST so dramatically it bends light emitted from stars behind it. Now my only issue is we see different stars dependent on our point in space, if ST was one linear plane the stars we view should not change.

I will also say under this model of ST would account for the Dark Matter(unknown source of gravity) and Dark Energy problem with out undoing any current laws and constants. I will not have time to create illustration until next week busy this weekend.

Now what has me stumped. I am attempting to define this mathematically, well although I can do algebra I am by no means gifted in math like some. The equation I am attempting to ascertain is this: from the amount of acceleration of the expansion of the universe we should be able to calculate the length of these bands. The acceleration should be in direct correlation to the length or bands energy potential(length and elasticity).

I guess I should add this would also account to the flattening, and bulge seen in galaxies we observe. I should also sate this models does not undo the zero energy equation either. Also accounts for orbits the same way, just would explain the source for Dark Energy and Dark Matter. How? Well as per my analogy a stretched rubber band has more mass than one that is not stretched due to the energy of the band trying to right it's shape, and since energy has mass. This unknown source of gravity(dark matter) is mass of ST bands energy trying to right itself and the force that is causing the expansion(dark energy) is the also due to the band trying to right itself by expelling the foreign mass from it`s structure.

Now that I have posted this I will be sending emails to some physicist after I do my illustrations and hope some will look at it. I am also open to the idea my model is wrong no problem I would just like to be shown I am cause as of yet my calculations of preexisting equations do not show it would not work. Now since those equations work in this model next step is to see if it can work out mathematically. I left out a substantial amount and if you have questions pose them or a point why it this model would not work, based on physics, not spirituality or religion please. I have been working on this since I was 17 but only recently last 5 years have come to a concise model to explain the Dark Energy & Dark Matter problem. Thank for reading.

[Excubis]

[Replying to post 23 by Excubis]

I posted this in wrong place lol had multiple pages open will re post on general chat board. Don`t know how to delete a post or I would sorry Mods & Admin for the double post.

[Wootah]

One thing for absolute certain is that the universe (nor earth) is fined tuned for human life. There are simply far too many hazards for human life.

If the universe were fine tuned for human life, then why is there any disease at all?

We exist. So all the ways we can die do not prevent life.

[rookiebatman]

One thing for absolute certain is that the universe (nor earth) is fined tuned for human life. There are simply far too many hazards for human life.

If the universe were fine tuned for human life, then why is there any disease at all?

We exist. So all the ways we can die do not prevent life.

Try telling that to the dead people.

[Box Whatbox]

Life on another planet especially human level intelligence on another planet would be an issue for my faith.

Why?

At the moment the science says life is only here.

Science is seeing the potential for life in a lot of other places. http://exoplanets.org/

Why could not your God have created life on many planets?

[Mr.Badham]

[Replying to Wootah]

I'm still confused as to which "Fine tuning" argument you adhere to;
The one that says "Earth is fine tuned", or the one that says "The Universe is fine tuned".

[sf]

I'm confused, because it seems like the argument could go both ways.

Either the universe is fine tuned for life, and therefore is full of it, or only Earth is fine tuned for life, and the rest of the universe will have none of it.

I want theists to take a stand right here and say;

<snip>

You have 1 of 3 options;
The universe is full of life.
Only earth has life.
The fine tuning argument is bogus and should never be used.

I didn't realize this concept had its own term! I haven't thought about it in years -- since I was an atheist -- because it seems to be based on the assumption that the things in the universe developed over time instead of being spontaneously created.

[Hatuey]

I didn't realize this concept had its own term! I haven't thought about it in years -- since I was an atheist -- because it seems to be based on the assumption that the things in the universe developed over time instead of being spontaneously created.

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=dan ... &FORM=VDRE