To an omnipotent mind...

[Willum]

I am going to take a strong position:

If something is omnipotent, then the universe consists of that creature's beliefs and opinions about the universe.

Is there any possible way to suggest this position is wrong?

[wiploc]

[Replying to post 6 by wiploc]

I am not going to spend the next thirty pages discussing grammar or what you think I said, it covered, speak or move on, thanks.

Ah, here's maybe a way of bridging the gap; an omnipotent creatures thoughts and opinions define reality, they are stronger than matter and materials.

We have to think of an omnipotent thing who isn't also omniscient. If she were omniscient, she'd never be wrong. I'll call her Sara.

The question is whether Sara's thinking that the moon is made of green cheese turns it into actual green cheese. You've given no reason to think that the answer is yes.

Suppose, for instance, that we ask whether omnipotent Sara is strong enough to make moonrock withstand misunderstanding. If she can't do it, she isn't omnipotent, right?

In any case, we can imagine someone for whom everything they believe magically becomes true, but there's no reason to assume that that's the case for every omnipotent being.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 11 by wiploc]

Why not?
If an omnipotent Sarah (I like that) believes something impossible is true, I see nothing preventing it from becoming both possible and true...

In fact I see no way for her to prevent it... she believes it right?

Let me speak in stronger terms: I don't understand any way for her to prevent it.

[wiploc]

In fact I see no way for her to prevent it...

Then she's weak. She can't do anything she wants. She's not omnipotent.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 13 by wiploc]

That is incorrect.
Because reality follows her whim, it makes her omnipotent.
If she wants it to go against her will, that must still be in accordance with her will.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 9 by ttruscott]

I am afraid I don't see/understand this.
If something omnipotent believed gravity was inconstant, wouldn't it be inconstant?

Where does the ability to use power to anything power can do imply that thinking about something makes it true? I contend HE has total control of HIS creative acts, HIS creative decrees which are not a part of HIS thoughts at all, only of HIS decision making, HIS will.

[wiploc]

[Replying to post 13 by wiploc]

That is incorrect.
Because reality follows her whim, it makes her omnipotent.
If she wants it to go against her will, that must still be in accordance with her will.

She could will reality to follow her whim. Then it would have to. But she doesn't have to will reality to follow her misunderstandings. There is no rule that all possible omnipotent beings work that way.

If Jehovah thought that having the Jews cut off the ends of their dicks would make them happy, does that mean the Jews are happy? No, a less-than-omniscient god can be wrong.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 16 by wiploc]

I think we're saying the same thing.

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

Not thinking, believing.

Big difference.

[ttruscott]

[Replying to post 16 by wiploc]

I think we're saying the same thing.

[Replying to post 15 by ttruscott]

Not thinking, believing.

Big difference.

Hmmmmm...thinking, thinking...

[Willum]

[Replying to post 18 by ttruscott]

What do you think your particular omnipotent creature believes?

[The Tanager]

[Replying to post 17 by Willum]

An omnipotent being that is not omniscient could believe something wrong about reality. Therefore, an omnipotent being believing something to be true does not make it true.