Did Allah start Christianty?

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Wed May 30, 2012 3:51 pm

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

LaaIlahaIllAllah · Post by **LaaIlahaIllAllah** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:17 am

HaLi8993 wrote: BISMILLAH,

Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

My brother, let us learn from some words of Imam al-Shafi'ee:

"I have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that I won the debate, and I have never debated with an ignorant person, except that I lost."

We might as well stop wasting our time here... And I had enough of all this hypocrisy, devilishness, and intellectual dishonesty.

Wa alaykum salaam

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:00 am

LaaIlahaIllAllah wrote:
HaLi8993 wrote: BISMILLAH,
Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

My brother, let us learn from some words of Imam al-Shafi'ee:

"I have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that I won the debate, and I have never debated with an ignorant person, except that I lost."

We might as well stop wasting our time here... And I had enough of all this hypocrisy, devilishness, and intellectual dishonesty.

Wa alaykum salaam

Just going over this thread but it looks like you have handwaved every point made while freely using hyperbole(I'm being kind in merely calling it this)to over state your position not to mention you claiming refutations have been made when none are actually evident in this thread. You actually have to perform a refutation before you can claim one was made much less the thousands you claim have been made here.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:53 am

QUOTE: Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

My brother, let us learn from some words of Imam al-Shafi'ee:

"I have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that I won the debate, and I have never debated with an ignorant person, except that I lost."

We might as well stop wasting our time here... And I had enough of all this hypocrisy, devilishness, and intellectual dishonesty.Â

Wa alaykum salaam

ANSWER:Â Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

I'm not a brother rather a sister lol, thank you for the advice however I don't see this as a waste of time if it means defending the religion of Islam.

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:21 am

HaLi8993 wrote: QUOTE: Assalaamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,

My brother, let us learn from some words of Imam al-Shafi'ee:

"I have never debated with a knowledgeable person, except that I won the debate, and I have never debated with an ignorant person, except that I lost."

We might as well stop wasting our time here... And I had enough of all this hypocrisy, devilishness, and intellectual dishonesty.Â

Wa alaykum salaam

ANSWER:Â Wa alaykum salam wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.

I'm not a brother rather a sister lol, thank you for the advice however I don't see this as a waste of time if it means defending the religion of Islam.

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge without wisdom and God's direction is dangerous. I don't feel that i am wasting time here. If I did, I wouldn't post. I am only interested in sharing truth about my faith. I am so sure that Islam is the path of error that i am willing to put my life on the line. If you have had enough hypocrisy, devilishness and intellectual dishonesty, does that now mean you are now willing to hear the gospel that can save your soul? Jesus gave Himself so you could be made righteous before God.

Satan doesn't want you to believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Jesus said: "NO man comes to the father except through me." "He knows how to get there to the the father. If I invite someone to my house and give specific directions, it's because that is the only way to arrive. They need followed. If they try another way, they won't arrive. I am the only one that knows how to get to my house. Jesus is the only one who knows how to get there to paradise, and it is only through Him. Why won't you hear and live?

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:10 am

@BurninglightÂ

QUOTE: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge without wisdom and God's direction Â is dangerous. I don't feel that i am wasting time here. If I did, I wouldn't post. I am only interested in sharing truth about my faith. I am so sure that Islam is the path Â of error that i am willing to put my life on the line. If you have had enough hypocrisy, devilishness and intellectual dishonesty, does that now mean you are now willing to hear the gospel that can save your soul? Jesus gave Himself so you could be made righteous before God.Â

Satan doesn't want you to believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Jesus said: "NO man comes to the father except through me." "He knows how to get there to the the father. If I invite someone to my house and give specific directions, it's because that is the only way to arrive. They need followed. If they try another way, they won't arrive. I am the only one that knows how to get to my house. Jesus is the only one who knows how to get there to paradise, and it is only through Him. Why won't you hear and live?

ANSWER: ok now I am getting really confused was this post for me??

If it is through Jesus (peace be upon him) that we learn how to get to paradise then what about the people that existed before Jesus (peace be upon him) are they doomed for hellfire?? The only way to heaven is through Islam.

If Jesus (peace be upon him) is the only way of getting into paradise then why in theÂ Gospel of John does Jesus (peace be upon him) speak of someone (Muhammad - peace be upon him) coming after him that will guide you. If Jesus (peace be upon him) has already guided you then who is he referring too??Â

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:16 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @BurninglightÂ

QUOTE: The fear of the Lord is the beginning of Knowledge and wisdom. Knowledge without wisdom and God's direction Â is dangerous. I don't feel that i am wasting time here. If I did, I wouldn't post. I am only interested in sharing truth about my faith. I am so sure that Islam is the path Â of error that i am willing to put my life on the line. If you have had enough hypocrisy, devilishness and intellectual dishonesty, does that now mean you are now willing to hear the gospel that can save your soul? Jesus gave Himself so you could be made righteous before God.Â

Satan doesn't want you to believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation. Jesus said: "NO man comes to the father except through me." "He knows how to get there to the the father. If I invite someone to my house and give specific directions, it's because that is the only way to arrive. They need followed. If they try another way, they won't arrive. I am the only one that knows how to get to my house. Jesus is the only one who knows how to get there to paradise, and it is only through Him. Why won't you hear and live?

ANSWER: ok now I am getting really confused was this post for me??

If it is through Jesus (peace be upon him) that we learn how to get to paradise then what about the people that existed before Jesus (peace be upon him) are they doomed for hellfire?? The only way to heaven is through Islam.

If Jesus (peace be upon him) is the only way of getting into paradise then why in theÂ Gospel of John does Jesus (peace be upon him) speak of someone (Muhammad - peace be upon him) coming after him that will guide you. If Jesus (peace be upon him) has already guided you then who is he referring too??Â

You err not knowing the Scriptures or the power thereof. Before Christ, they had types and shadows of Christ. When Christ came the shadow and types do no good.

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:33 am

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "You err not knowing the Scriptures or the power thereof. Before Christ, they had types and shadows of Christ. When Christ came the shadow and types do no good"

ANSWER:

Please explain, any evidence of this??

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Sat Jun 02, 2012 11:28 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight

QUOTE: "You err not knowing the Scriptures or the power thereof. Before Christ, they had types and shadows of Christ. When Christ came the shadow and types do no good"

ANSWER: Please explain, any evidence of this??

There is much for starters the is Isaiah 53 that speaks of how and why Christ would die.
Look at the Passover the Jews celebrate. Do you understand the significance. The blood on the door post from the innocent lamb spared the people the death angel coming to claim the first begotten. That is a shadow and type that Christ blood applied to our lives spares us from the death angel that claim for hell! additionally. Moses was told to beat the rock to give life flowing water to the children of Israel He did and out came the water of life. Later God told Moses to speak to the rock. The shadow is once the rock of our salvation has been smitten all we need to do is speak to the rock that means pray to the rock. He doesn't need to be beaten to death again. Also Moses holding up the serpent and the people being healed. That represented Christ who became a curse for us to be healed

HaLi8993 · Post by **HaLi8993** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 3:42 am

@Burninglight

QUOTE: "There is much for starters the is Isaiah 53 that speaks of how and why Christ would die.
Look at the Passover the Jews celebrate. Do you understand the significance. The blood on the door post from the innocent lamb spared the people the death angel coming to claim the first begotten. That is a shadow and type that Christ blood applied to our lives spares us from the death angel that claim for hell! additionally. Moses was told to beat the rock to give life flowing water to the children of Israel He did and out came the water of life. Later God told Moses to speak to the rock. The shadow is once the rock of our salvation has been smitten all we need to do is speak to the rock that means pray to the rock. He doesn't need to be beaten to death again. Also Moses holding up the serpent and the people being healed. That represented Christ who became a curse for us to be healed"

ANSWER: Now we can say this about anything, what was the shadow for the first group of people created?

Burninglight · Post by **Burninglight** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:32 am

HaLi8993 wrote: @Burninglight

QUOTE: "There is much for starters the is Isaiah 53 that speaks of how and why Christ would die.
Look at the Passover the Jews celebrate. Do you understand the significance. The blood on the door post from the innocent lamb spared the people the death angel coming to claim the first begotten. That is a shadow and type that Christ blood applied to our lives spares us from the death angel that claim for hell! additionally. Moses was told to beat the rock to give life flowing water to the children of Israel He did and out came the water of life. Later God told Moses to speak to the rock. The shadow is once the rock of our salvation has been smitten all we need to do is speak to the rock that means pray to the rock. He doesn't need to be beaten to death again. Also Moses holding up the serpent and the people being healed. That represented Christ who became a curse for us to be healed"

ANSWER: Now we can say this about anything, what was the shadow for the first group of people created?

For the first (Adam) people created there were no types and shadows. Jesus is the last Adam