The Qu'ran

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McCulloch
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The Qu'ran

Post #1

Post by McCulloch »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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bernee51
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Re: The Qu'ran

Post #11

Post by bernee51 »

McCulloch wrote:
CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:quraan is written by allah but other books written by person so you have to read it to make sure
mar wrote:Well i am sure the quran is much unique from among all the other books. [...] the quran has never been changed. The quran was and is as god says himself in the quran that the quran is copyrighted. So there are millions of copys in the world in many translation--but all the same thing. Ones in english, urdu, arabic, chinese, brail... and so on. So which one shall you read? The one that says Quran or koran or coran on the cover. And as the biggining chapter introduces the author (god). You can order many free ones from islam tomorow, or even better go to your local mosque.[...]

So I went to the quran. I read it and I felt closer to god in my whole life. I actually cryed. And now i am closer to god then ever.
I have been invited to read the Qu'ran. It has been claimed that it has the answers to the questions, How can I know if God exists? and How can I know what God wants of me? It has been implied that the divine truth of the Quran is self-evident.

For Debate: If you have read the Qu'ran or part of it, is its divine origin self-evident? Does it make a convincing argument for the existence of God?
Or is the Koran merely a 'borrowing' from Judaism and Christianity? Is it a coincidence that the same angel (Gabriel) revealed to Mary her 'state' and to Mohammad the 'word of god'? After the initial 'revelation', the Prophet confided in his wife Khadijah who took him to see her cousin - Waraqa ibn Naufal - a scholar who allegedly knew the scriptures of the Jews and the Christians. It was this man who supposedly determined that the divine envoy who had once visited Moses had come now to Mount Hira.

Could it have been that the Arabs of the time felt wounded that they had been left out of history? God had appeared to Christians and Jews but had sent no prophet and no scripture in their own language. Perhaps they felt that the time for a local revelation was long overdue. The history of the Prophet and his musings, like the OT, quickly becomes an account of vicious quarres between warring tribes in which the finger of god supposedly settles and determines the outcome. Just like the bloody history of Cannan and Sinai, unattested as they are by independent evidence, these parochial battles have held millions hostage ever since due to their supposedly god-provided outcomes.

The Prophet died in 632. No history was written until 120 years later and even this is not attested to until Ibn Hisham who dies in 834. There is no clear evidence as to how or when the Koran as we know it became 'standardized'. Some hold that this task was performed independently by Zaid Ibn Thabit soon after the prophets demise. Others attribute the task to Caliph Uthman who asked Thabit to perform the role that Irenaeus had earlier carried out for the christian bible. Thabit determined which tests were sacred and 'inerrant' and which merely stories - destroying the latter. Given that Arabic itself was not standardized until the latter part of the 9th century it is likely that different versions and interpretations of Thabit's 'final version' were circulated. For example the Arabic words written of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem are different from any version that appears in the Koran.

The Koran, like the Jewish and Christian texts, is the work of man. And like the texts from which it is derived this work of man is responsible for the subjugation of much of humanity to superstition.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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CONVERTED TO ISLAM
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Post #12

Post by CONVERTED TO ISLAM »

There were a group of apes
who created them ?
If you think otherwise, please post your reasons there
why the Evolutionary theory can not create any apes/human in in this century
( i never heard about any person/campanzee/apes/ created by Evolutionary theory in this centurey )?
why the Evolutionary theory just created the first human/apes/chimpanzee ??

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Fallibleone
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Post #13

Post by Fallibleone »

Converted, the theory of evolution has it that changes are absolutely tiny and take a very long time to come about, ie. generations and generations - thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of years, not decades. That is one of the reasons why you have not seen any humans created by evolution in this century. Evolution is not observable in such a relatively short space of time.
''''What I am is good enough if I can only be it openly.''''

''''The man said "why you think you here?" I said "I got no idea".''''

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Par la nuit si noire.
Tu attends, et je tombe
Dans tes ailes blanches,
Et je vole,
Et je coule
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Post #14

Post by CONVERTED TO ISLAM »

Fallibleone wrote:Converted, the theory of evolution has it that changes are absolutely tiny and take a very long time to come about, ie. generations and generations - thousands or hundreds of thousands or millions of years, not decades. That is one of the reasons why you have not seen any humans created by evolution in this century. Evolution is not observable in such a relatively short space of time.
so human created by the theory of evolution but what kind of things they were?

i mean .. what human were>> apes or chimpanzees or soil or .. what ??

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Post #15

Post by McCulloch »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:so human created by the theory of evolution but what kind of things they were?

i mean .. what human were>> apes or chimpanzees or soil or .. what ??
Humans are a species of ape.
Apes are a genus of primate.
Primates are a family of mammals.
Mammals are class of vertebrates.
Vertebrates are a phylum of animals.
Animals are a kingdom of eukarya.
Eukarya are a domain of living things.

This is not specific to evolution, this is simple biology.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Pazuzu bin Hanbi
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Post #16

Post by Pazuzu bin Hanbi »

Converted: I would recommend these as a starting point:

Charles Darwin’s On The Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection,
as well as Richard Dawkins’ The Blind Watchmaker
and Daniel Dennett’s Darwin’s Dangerous Idea

if you want to understand evolution and the processes of natural selection more clearly.
لا إلـــــــــــــــــــــــــــه

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Post #17

Post by McCulloch »

For a more detailed view of the biology, see The Ancestor's Tale by Richard Dawkins.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John

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Post #18

Post by CONVERTED TO ISLAM »

Hmm .. human kind were apes !! :blink:

where apes came from ?
are they created or they were rocks !?

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Post #19

Post by bernee51 »

CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote:Hmm .. human kind were apes !! :blink:
Correction: humans ARE apes.
CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote: where apes came from ?
They evolved from earlier mamalian ancestors.
CONVERTED TO ISLAM wrote: ..are they created or they were rocks !?
neither. .
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"

William James quoting Dr. Hodgson

"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."

Nisargadatta Maharaj

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Post #20

Post by CONVERTED TO ISLAM »

They evolved from earlier mamalian ancestors.
where does the ancestors mamalian came from?

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