Did Allah start Christianty?

[Burninglight]

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

[Goat]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "You err not knowing the Scriptures or the power thereof. Before Christ, they had types and shadows of Christ. When Christ came the shadow and types do no good"

ANSWER: Please explain, any evidence of this??

There is much for starters the is Isaiah 53 that speaks of how and why Christ would die.
Look at the Passover the Jews celebrate. Do you understand the significance. The blood on the door post from the innocent lamb spared the people the death angel coming to claim the first begotten. That is a shadow and type that Christ blood applied to our lives spares us from the death angel that claim for hell! additionally. Moses was told to beat the rock to give life flowing water to the children of Israel He did and out came the water of life. Later God told Moses to speak to the rock. The shadow is once the rock of our salvation has been smitten all we need to do is speak to the rock that means pray to the rock. He doesn't need to be beaten to death again. Also Moses holding up the serpent and the people being healed. That represented Christ who became a curse for us to be healed

Uh. No. Isaiah 53 is mistranslated a little bit, and then taken out of context. Isaiah 53 is written in the perfect tense, which means it was a completed action, and , if you read the 4th suffering servant song in context, you will see that the author of the 4th servant song specifically identifies the suffering servant as the Nation of Israel.

[Burninglight]

Prophecy is sometimes written in the perfect tense to give a furture event. I bear witness that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus and no other.

[Goat]

Prophecy is sometimes written in the perfect tense to give a furture event. I bear witness that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus and no other.

Well, I read it, in context, and honestly.. your witness is incorrect. And no, the perfect tense is always a completed action, not past tense. You are proclaiming an error.

One reason I would NEVER become a Christian is they lie about the Jewish scriptures to the Jews.

[Burninglight]

Prophecy is sometimes written in the perfect tense to give a furture event. I bear witness that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus and no other.

Well, I read it, in context, and honestly.. your witness is incorrect. And no, the perfect tense is always a completed action, not past tense. You are proclaiming an error.

One reason I would NEVER become a Christian is they lie about the Jewish scriptures to the Jews.

My witness is perfectly accurate. Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world. It had been decided Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world way before He was born! Do lets look at Isaiah 53 that stumbles people the Jew first:

Who has believed what he has heard from us?[a]
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows,[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e]
and as one from whom men hide their faces[f]
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned"every one"to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when his soul makes[h] an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

It has billions convinced. Those that are not, they are in error (Deep error).

[Goat]

Prophecy is sometimes written in the perfect tense to give a furture event. I bear witness that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus and no other.

Well, I read it, in context, and honestly.. your witness is incorrect. And no, the perfect tense is always a completed action, not past tense. You are proclaiming an error.

One reason I would NEVER become a Christian is they lie about the Jewish scriptures to the Jews.

My witness is perfectly accurate. Jesus was crucified from the foundation of the world. It had been decided Jesus is the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world way before He was born! Do lets look at Isaiah 53 that stumbles people the Jew first:

Who has believed what he has heard from us?[a]
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 For he grew up before him like a young plant,
and like a root out of dry ground;
he had no form or majesty that we should look at him,
and no beauty that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by men;
a man of sorrows,[c] and acquainted with[d] grief;[e]
and as one from whom men hide their faces[f]
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he has borne our griefs
and carried our sorrows;
yet we esteemed him stricken,
smitten by God, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions;
he was crushed for our iniquities;
upon him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with his wounds we are healed.
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
we have turned"every one"to his own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
yet he opened not his mouth;
like a lamb that is led to the slaughter,
and like a sheep that before its shearers is silent,
so he opened not his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away;
and as for his generation, who considered
that he was cut off out of the land of the living,
stricken for the transgression of my people?
9 And they made his grave with the wicked
and with a rich man in his death,
although he had done no violence,
and there was no deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the will of the Lord to crush him;
he has put him to grief;[g]
when his soul makes[h] an offering for guilt,
he shall see his offspring; he shall prolong his days;
the will of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.
11 Out of the anguish of his soul he shall see and be satisfied;
by his knowledge shall the righteous one, my servant,
make many to be accounted righteous,
and he shall bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will divide him a portion with the many,[j]
and he shall divide the spoil with the strong,[k]
because he poured out his soul to death
and was numbered with the transgressors;
yet he bore the sin of many,
and makes intercession for the transgressors.

It has billions convinced. Those that are not, they are in error (Deep error).

Yes, they are in error.. because, you, of course, left out quote a bit before Isaiah 53..

AND, you did a translation that was a mistranslation.. and you skip the following
passages, which directly identify the servant as isreal. Context anyone??

"But you, O Israel, my servant..." -Isaiah 41:8

"But now listen, O Jacob, my servant, Israel, whom I have chosen..." -Isa. 44:1

"Remember these things, O Jacob, for you are my servant, O Israel. I have made you, you are my servant..." -Isa. 44:21

"For the sake of Jacob my servant, of Israel my chosen..." -Isa. 45:4

"He said to me, 'You are my servant, Israel, in whom I will display my splendor'." -Isa. 49:3

And.. lets look at a Jewish translation.

. Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?
2. And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?
3. Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.
4. Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.
5. But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.
6. We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us.
7. He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.
8. From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.
9. And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth.
10. And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand.
11. From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear.
12. Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.

Your entire 'oh, sometimes the future tense is used for prophecy' is a vain and fruitless attempt by Christian missionaries to justify it being a prophecy for Jesus when it is not.'

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

This still doesn't answer the question, if it is believed that you need to believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) to attain eternal paradise then how did those who lived at the time of Adam (peace be upon him) know and belive in Jesus (peace be upon him) ???

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

This still doesn't answer the question, if it is believed that you need to believe in Jesus (peace be upon him) to attain eternal paradise then how did those who lived at the time of Adam (peace be upon him) know and belive in Jesus (peace be upon him) ???

I answered it. They had the law and the prophets, but in these last days God speaks to us through His son. The prophets of old pointed to shadows and types of Jesus Christ. I gave some examples dealing with the Passover and other OT recorded word

[HaLi8993]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "I answered it. They had the law and the prophets, but in these last days God speaks to us through His son. The prophets of old pointed to shadows and types of Jesus Christ. I gave some examples dealing with the Passover and other OT recorded word"

ANSWER: No you haven't, you said that there was no types and shadows for the first people so how are they believing in Jesus (peace be upon him) to get eternal life??? If your saying they had laws and prophets then Christianity isn't the true religion of God if people were following other prophets and if there were other laws then they didn't even know Jesus (peace be upon him) to accept him, that means you don't even need Jesus (peace be upon him) to have Eternal Paradise.

[charles brough]

I am surprised that the question has involved so much debate! Islam figures their faith began with Abraham. They are linking it with the Torah as does Christianity. But actually, Christianity began with Jesus, and Mohammed came more than a half century after Jesus. Christianity is the older of the two faiths.

[Burninglight]

Burninglight

QUOTE: "I answered it. They had the law and the prophets, but in these last days God speaks to us through His son. The prophets of old pointed to shadows and types of Jesus Christ. I gave some examples dealing with the Passover and other OT recorded word"

ANSWER: No you haven't, you said that there was no types and shadows for the first people so how are they believing in Jesus (peace be upon him) to get eternal life??? If your saying they had laws and prophets then Christianity isn't the true religion of God if people were following other prophets and if there were other laws then they didn't even know Jesus (peace be upon him) to accept him, that means you don't even need Jesus (peace be upon him) to have Eternal Paradise.

I didn't say there were no types and shadows before Jesus. I said that is all they had, but when Christ came the types and shadows did no good. You need to read more carefully! I gave you examples of the THE SHADOWS and types. If you don't read more carefully, we will go in circles, and I am not willing to do that with you. If you want paradise it is a gift God gives only through Jesus Christ.