Does the Koran condemn this?

[achilles12604]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080202/ts_nm/iraq_dc

Using mentally handicapped women as unknowing bombs? Is this condemned in the Koran? Is it supported?

[achilles12604]

I notice my post is unanswered.

Common now. Don't let me down.

[carolineislands]

They're probably over on the Muzlim forum copying and pasting answers to infidels that read (the worst kind).

[umair]

achilles wrote:

How about this . . .

You read the second article I presented as you only addressed one. Then you show me the verses where it says not to do this. Then I will research and try to find verses where it says TO do this. And we can compare.

Agreed?

well if you are talking about jihad, then ofcourse you can find many verses in the quran regarding it ,

but the question is that how do you interpret them.

if they are taken out of context ,then they appear to be violent, but if you want to know the real meaning then it is always neccessary to read them in context,

i suspect that even you have any such out of context quotings of the verses of the quran,

so it would be better if you post your queries first.

Ok. Lets start with the laws regarding women.

"4.34": Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Women are to obey men.

"Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise." The Cow 2:28

Women are NOT equal to men. Interestingly this contradicts . . .

Surah 30(Ar-Rum), verse 21 says, “ And of His Signs is that he creates for you mates out of yourselves, so that you may find tranquility in them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Surely in this there are indeed Signs for a people who reflect.” Unlike Christianity, Islam does not say that a woman was created out of a man’s ribs. Islam says that man and woman were created equal. Relation between a husband and wife should be of love and understanding.

This person's account of things. Is the writer of the piece above simply wrong in their interpretation or does the Koran have a contradiction?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... koran.html

"33.59": O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Women must cover themselves.




Ok so we can see that those who are Muslim are in fact supposed to do the things that these women were killed for. The women who are killed were not covering themselves, they were not obedient to men, etc.

So now we should look to see what happens to those who refuse to obey the holy Koran . . .

"33.60": If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;

"33.61": Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.

Ok, so let's get this straight. Those who proclaim Muslim beliefs and then do not obey (hypocrites), shall be murdered a horrible murdering.



It seems pretty clear cut to me. Those who murdered the women were justified and right according to the holy Koran.


Your turn.

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

[achilles12604]

achilles wrote:

How about this . . .

You read the second article I presented as you only addressed one. Then you show me the verses where it says not to do this. Then I will research and try to find verses where it says TO do this. And we can compare.

Agreed?

well if you are talking about jihad, then ofcourse you can find many verses in the quran regarding it ,

but the question is that how do you interpret them.

if they are taken out of context ,then they appear to be violent, but if you want to know the real meaning then it is always neccessary to read them in context,

i suspect that even you have any such out of context quotings of the verses of the quran,

so it would be better if you post your queries first.

Ok. Lets start with the laws regarding women.

"4.34": Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Women are to obey men.

"Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise." The Cow 2:28

Women are NOT equal to men. Interestingly this contradicts . . .

Surah 30(Ar-Rum), verse 21 says, “ And of His Signs is that he creates for you mates out of yourselves, so that you may find tranquility in them; and He has put love and mercy between you. Surely in this there are indeed Signs for a people who reflect.” Unlike Christianity, Islam does not say that a woman was created out of a man’s ribs. Islam says that man and woman were created equal. Relation between a husband and wife should be of love and understanding.

This person's account of things. Is the writer of the piece above simply wrong in their interpretation or does the Koran have a contradiction?
http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... koran.html

"33.59": O Prophet! say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers that they let down upon them their over-garments; this will be more proper, that they may be known, and thus they will not be given trouble; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Women must cover themselves.




Ok so we can see that those who are Muslim are in fact supposed to do the things that these women were killed for. The women who are killed were not covering themselves, they were not obedient to men, etc.

So now we should look to see what happens to those who refuse to obey the holy Koran . . .

"33.60": If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist, We shall most certainly set you over them, then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while;

"33.61": Cursed: wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered, a (horrible) murdering.

Ok, so let's get this straight. Those who proclaim Muslim beliefs and then do not obey (hypocrites), shall be murdered a horrible murdering.



It seems pretty clear cut to me. Those who murdered the women were justified and right according to the holy Koran.


Your turn.

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

You told me to put forth my case.

I did so.

And this is your reply?

WERE THE WOMEN KILLED WITHIN THE LAWS OF THE KORAN OR NOT?

[umair]

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

You told me to put forth my case.

I did so.

And this is your reply?

WERE THE WOMEN KILLED WITHIN THE LAWS OF THE KORAN OR NOT?[/quote]




NO!


do you think it is a small topic?

that is why i had requested you to read that article completely, so that you could know about the manifold rights enjoyed by women in comparision to men.

little knowledge , gives you little understanding.

[achilles12604]

next post

[achilles12604]

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

You told me to put forth my case.

I did so.

And this is your reply?

WERE THE WOMEN KILLED WITHIN THE LAWS OF THE KORAN OR NOT?

NO!


do you think it is a small topic?

that is why i had requested you to read that article completely, so that you could know about the manifold rights enjoyed by women in comparision to men.

little knowledge , gives you little understanding.

I don't want to read your article. I never asked you to read my article. I want to debate with you.

So are you willing to debate or not? You told me to go first and present my argument. I did. Now you are refusing to reply to it.

Why?

[umair]

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

You told me to put forth my case.

I did so.

And this is your reply?

WERE THE WOMEN KILLED WITHIN THE LAWS OF THE KORAN OR NOT?

NO!


do you think it is a small topic?

that is why i had requested you to read that article completely, so that you could know about the manifold rights enjoyed by women in comparision to men.

little knowledge , gives you little understanding.

I don't want to read your article. I never asked you to read my article. I want to debate with you.

So are you willing to debate or not? You told me to go first and present my argument. I did. Now you are refusing to reply to it.

Why?

no my dear friend , you are taking it in a wrong sense,

i am not defying your argument, instead inshallah i will,


i was just asking you to read that article because your answers lie in it, and i did not wanted to repeat it, as i just wanted you to gain some more knowledge on the topic.

[achilles12604]

well ,

if you really want to talk about womens right in islam then i would first request you to read the topic (womens right in islam) , plz read it completely.

You told me to put forth my case.

I did so.

And this is your reply?

WERE THE WOMEN KILLED WITHIN THE LAWS OF THE KORAN OR NOT?

NO!


do you think it is a small topic?

that is why i had requested you to read that article completely, so that you could know about the manifold rights enjoyed by women in comparision to men.

little knowledge , gives you little understanding.

I don't want to read your article. I never asked you to read my article. I want to debate with you.

So are you willing to debate or not? You told me to go first and present my argument. I did. Now you are refusing to reply to it.

Why?

no my dear friend , you are taking it in a wrong sense,

i am not defying your argument, instead inshallah i will,


i was just asking you to read that article because your answers lie in it, and i did not wanted to repeat it, as i just wanted you to gain some more knowledge on the topic.

Ok fine. Provide me with a link and I will go do the work. although you really should pull out the quotes which refute what I wrote. That is the proper way to debate.

[Goat]

From http://www.speroforum.com/site/article. ... 14478&tag=

Convicted Saudi witch to be stoned to death
Fawza Falih is sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia, having been convicted of witchcraft in 2005. Human Rights Watch asks to stop her execution by stoning.
Saturday, February 16, 2008
By Asia News See all articles by this author


Witch hunting is not a thing of the past, at least not in Saudi Arabia. A court in the oil-rich kingdom handed down a death sentence against Fawza Falih, a woman accused of witchcraft, stunning NGO Human Rights Watch which has reacted by appealing to Saudi King Abdullah to stop the execution.

The illiterate woman was detained by religious police in 2005 for allegedly causing impotence in one of her accusers.

Ms Falih said that she was beaten and forced to fingerprint a confession that she could not understand because she cannot read.

Saudi Arabia does not have a written criminal code and witchcraft is not defined as a crime. Yet the Saudi court in charge of the case passed a death sentence exercising its own discretionary powers to protect the nation’s principles, soul and identity.

For Joe Stork, Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, this case underscores Saudi judges’ inability to carry out objective criminal investigations.