Did Allah start Christianty?

[Burninglight]

Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.

The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!

[Burninglight]

God used an ass to talk to a prophet. God speaks in many ways. "God uses lots of things to talk to us. But actually hearing from God isn't so much a matter of if he's talking, but rather, whether we're listening."

[A Troubled Man]

Can you show me where in the Bible it states that we cannot hear from God?

No, but I can show you other books that help explain why people believe they can hear voices talking to them.

THERE IS no reason we can't hear Him by faith according to the Scriptures.

It's truly amazing the things people believed and acted upon because of faith according to the Scriptures..

Besides, why do you contradict yourself? You told Hali you don't need a prophet.

True, I don't need prophets because only God himself can tell us all who is and who isn't a prophet.

[A Troubled Man]

God used an ass to talk to a prophet.

So, whenever I hear a braying ass, how will I know it's not God speaking to me?

God speaks in many ways. "God uses lots of things to talk to us.

Why all the unnecessary nonsense? Why not just show himself to us and explain it everything in terms we can all understand? Why is He so coy?

But actually hearing from God isn't so much a matter of if he's talking, but rather, whether we're listening."

Baloney. If there's some manual describing the correct way in which to "listen" over and above what we all know and understand as listening, then please show it to us?

A talking god is a talking god is a talking god. We are listening...

[Burninglight]

God used an ass to talk to a prophet.

So, whenever I hear a braying ass, how will I know it's not God speaking to me?

Well, one way would be if you heard it calling your name in English through the braying, and saying, "Start praying before saying.... Now, you listen, stop messing with Christians that believe they can hear my small still voice by faith" If you heard something like that, you would have to make a decision was that God, an angel, the devil or the ass speaking or am I losing my mind? When God wants you attention He'll get but it may not be the way we like. I believe we can learn to be sensitive to His voice or we could be calloused from hearing Him.
Are you a Christian?

[A Troubled Man]

am I losing my mind?

That would be the most likeliest.

When God wants you attention He'll get but it may not be the way we like.

Nonsense, you are speaking for God and asserting what He would do.

If a god wants me to know he's there and wants to talk with me, he doesn't have to play immature games of hide and seek and sticking his hand up an asses bottom and using him for a puppet.

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "But, we can easily see that the Quran is wrong about so many things in reality, we can reject it as mythical nonsense"

ANSWER: Like what exactly?, lol refusing to reject Islam does not make it a mythical nonsense.

QUOTE: "No, God did not tell you that, you just made it up yourself in order to support your faith. It's called intellectual dishonesty. It's what Islamic propagandists rely on in order to show their religion as being a whole lot more than what it really is"

ANSWER: There are most certainly Angels that will carry out punishments,Angels are a mighty creation, and they perform many tasks, and they are divided into many groups, which no one knows except God, some tasks include

1) Carrying the Throne: 

“Those (angels) who bear the Throne (of Allaah) and those around it glorify the praises of their Lord, and believe in Him, and ask forgiveness for those who believe (in the Oneness of Allaah)…�

[Ghaafir 40:7 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Among them is the one who brings down the Revelation to the Messengers. He is Jibreel (peace be upon him), who brought the Qur’aan down to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): 

“Which the trustworthy Rooh [Jibreel (Gabriel)] has brought down

Upon your heart (O Muhammad) that you may be (one) of the warners�

[al-Shu’araa 26:193 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Among them is Mikaa’eel, who is appointed in charge of the rain and vegetation, and Israafeel who is appointed to blow the Trumpet when the Hour begins. And among them are the recording angels who are appointed to watch over the sons of Adam and their deeds:

 “But verily, over you (are appointed angels in charge of mankind) to watch you,

Kiraaman (Honourable) Kaatibeen —writing down (your deeds),

They know all that you do

[al-Infitaar :10-12 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Among them are those who are entrusted with the task of writing down all deeds, whether good or evil: 

“(Remember) that the two receivers (recording angels) receive (each human being), one sitting on the right and one on the left (to note his or her actions)

Not a word does he (or she) utter but there is a watcher by him ready (to record it)

[Qaaf 50:17-18 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Among them are those who are entrusted with the task of seizing the souls of the believers:

 “Those whose lives the angels take while they are in a pious state (i.e. pure from all evil, and worshipping none but Allaah Alone) saying (to them): Salaamun ‘Alaykum (peace be on you) enter you Paradise, because of that (the good) which you used to do (in the world)�

[al-Nahl 16:32 – interpretation of the meaning] 

Among them are the gatekeepers of Paradise and the servants of the people of Paradise: 

“And angels shall enter unto them from every gate (saying):

Salaamun ‘Alaykum (peace be upon you) for you persevered in patience! Excellent indeed is the final home!�

[al-Ra’d 13:23-24 – interpretation of the meaning] 

And among them are the gatekeepers of Hell: 

“O you who believe! Ward off yourselves and your families against a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe�

[al-Tahreem 66:6 – interpretation of the meaning] 

QUOTE: "It's bad enough that Islamic propagandists litter internet forums attempting to place Islam in a light of perfection, but they ultimately are forced to fabricate lies and say anything to support their propaganda. The funny thing is that they believe we are all so stupid as to just swallow their nonsense hook, line and sinker and not point out the elementary and obvious flaws and fabrications they create"

ANSWER: lol the last time I checked this sub-forum was littered with Anti-Islamic threads, so now I cannot defend my religion??, I haven't seen any flaws or fabrications so far. No one is forcing you to accept anything.

[HaLi8993]

@ A Troubled Man

QUOTE: "That makes no sense. If God has expectations of me, He can tell me himself. So-called Prophets can be liars and frauds, like Muhammad and Joseph Smith. 

Of course, you can explain why Prophets are needed and why God can't just tell us himself his expectations? Why is that a problem. It is the most logical and obvious solution"

ANSWER: No one has seen God, hence the reason why Prophets are sent to convey His Message, this is where the ultimate test lies because you are believing without seeing, furthermore the reason why Prophets were sent with miracles, one of the blessings which God bestows upon the believers in this world, is that He has blessed them with Islam, and chosen them to be guided by the Quran, and He will bless them exclusively in Paradise with the greatest blessing that He can bestow, which is the honour of looking upon His holy Face in the Paradise of ‘Adan, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Some faces that Day shall be Naadirah (shining and radiant).

Looking at their Lord (Allaah)�

[al-Qiyaamah :22-23] 

i.e. the faces of the believers will be beautiful and radiant, joyful because they are looking at the Face of their Lord. Al-Hasan (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “They will look at their Lord and their faces will become radiant with His Light.� 

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “[The phrase] ‘Some faces that Day shall be Naadirah (shining and radiant)’ means, because of the blessing. ‘Looking at their Lord’ means, looking upon the Face of their Lord.�  This is the opinion of the mufassireen among the scholars of the Sunnah and hadeeth. 

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):  

“There they will have all that they desire and We have more (for them, i.e. a glance at the All-Mighty, All-Majestic�

[Qaaf 50:35] 

What is meant by “more� here is looking upon the Face of Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, as that was interpreted by ‘Ali and Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with them). 

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“For those who have done good is the best reward and even more (i.e. having the honour of glancing at the Countenance of Allaah)�

[Yoonus 10:26] 

The “best reward� is Paradise, and “even more� is looking upon the Face of Allaah, as that was explained by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as was narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh (266) from Suhayb, according to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 

“When the people of Paradise enter Paradise, Allaah will say, ‘Do you want anything more?’ They will say, ‘Have You not brightened our faces, admitted us to Paradise and saved us from Hell?’ Then the veil will be lifted and they will not have seen anything more dear to them than looking upon their Lord, may He be glorified and exalted. This is what is meant by ‘even more.’� Then he recited the verse (interpretation of the meaning): 

“For those who have done good is the best reward and even more (i.e. having the honour of glancing at the Countenance of Allaah)�

[Yoonus 10:26] 

So once you know that the people of Paradise will not be given anything there that is more dear to them than looking upon the Face of their Lord, it will become clear to you just how great is the deprivation and loss that awaits the sinners whom Allaah warns with the words (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Nay! Surely, they (evil doers) will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day� 

[al-Mutafiffoon 83:15] 

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Are you now saying Allah is limited? He can't tell us what he wants directly. The Christian God tells us what He wants. We can hear from God directly. Through Christ we have all been made kings and priests unto our God so that we have no need for any man especially Muhammad & Joseph Smith to tell us what to do. We are commanded in the Bible to try the spirits and not believe all we are told or read. 

I have tested Muhammad and his message, and I have found him to be weighing in the balances wanting! You are believing him without testing him; so, you blindly follow a man who is leading you down the wide gate that leads to destruction. 
I silence satan and his demons just long enough for you to get a glimpse in Jesus' name! Come out now!"

ANSWER: How has God told the Christians what he wants directly? How can you hear from God directly? Why do you have to go through Jesus (peace be upon him) to get to God? So God told you what to follow not Jesus (peace be upon him)??

Lol what is it with you people do you all hear voices from Satan lol (just kidding) 

[HaLi8993]

@ Burninglight

QUOTE: "Why is that because she believes God does not speak to his creation as all other Muslims believe? Then she must not have been a convert from Christianity to Islam. She would have had to have been born Muslim; otherwise, she would be able to identify with what I said. All true Biblical Christians believe they can hear from God. Besides, she should be the one to tell me that not you? If what you say is true, then, all of Christianity has blown credibility with HaLi and possibly all Muslims, but tell me something I don't know! Hasn't it been that way for centuries between Christianity and Islam? 
What about you have you blown your credibilty with her? You said the same thing as me"

ANSWER: If you mean God speaks to his creation through the Quran I agree, what Muslim believes that God speaks to his creation directly (face to face)?

Burninglight wouldn't you want to know if I was a revert or not?? 

Can you explain this to me please, so this is interesting you believe you can hear from God? Can I get some references.

[A Troubled Man]

ANSWER: No one has seen God, hence the reason why Prophets are sent to convey His Message

Then, we can conclude that if no one has seen God, those Prophets are obviously liars and frauds.

this is where the ultimate test lies because you are believing without seeing

No, its the acceptance of the word of a Prophet, who are liars and frauds. It has nothing to do with seeing or not seeing anything.

furthermore the reason why Prophets were sent with miracles, one of the blessings which God bestows upon the believers in this world, is that He has blessed them with Islam, and chosen them to be guided by the Quran, and He will bless them exclusively in Paradise with the greatest blessing that He can bestow, which is the honour of looking upon His holy Face in the Paradise of ‘Adan, as He says (interpretation of the meaning): 

Islamic propaganda. You can't possibly know that without having heard it directly from God.

“Some faces that Day shall be Naadirah (shining and radiant).

Looking at their Lord (Allaah)�

[al-Qiyaamah :22-23] 

i.e. the faces of the believers will be beautiful and radiant, joyful because they are looking at the Face of their Lord. Al-Hasan (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “They will look at their Lord and their faces will become radiant with His Light.� 

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “[The phrase] ‘Some faces that Day shall be Naadirah (shining and radiant)’ means, because of the blessing. ‘Looking at their Lord’ means, looking upon the Face of their Lord.�  This is the opinion of the mufassireen among the scholars of the Sunnah and hadeeth. 

You just said no one has seen God, so how can people be looking upon the Face of their Lord? Did Ibn 'Abbaas see God or talk with Him? If not, then he cannot know that.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):  

“There they will have all that they desire and We have more (for them, i.e. a glance at the All-Mighty, All-Majestic�

[Qaaf 50:35] 

What is meant by “more� here is looking upon the Face of Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, as that was interpreted by ‘Ali and Anas ibn Maalik (may Allaah be pleased with them). 

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): 

“For those who have done good is the best reward and even more (i.e. having the honour of glancing at the Countenance of Allaah)�

[Yoonus 10:26] 

The “best reward� is Paradise, and “even more� is looking upon the Face of Allaah, as that was explained by the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as was narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh (266) from Suhayb, according to whom the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: 

“When the people of Paradise enter Paradise, Allaah will say, ‘Do you want anything more?’ They will say, ‘Have You not brightened our faces, admitted us to Paradise and saved us from Hell?’ Then the veil will be lifted and they will not have seen anything more dear to them than looking upon their Lord, may He be glorified and exalted. This is what is meant by ‘even more.’� Then he recited the verse (interpretation of the meaning): 

“For those who have done good is the best reward and even more (i.e. having the honour of glancing at the Countenance of Allaah)�

[Yoonus 10:26] 

So once you know that the people of Paradise will not be given anything there that is more dear to them than looking upon the Face of their Lord, it will become clear to you just how great is the deprivation and loss that awaits the sinners whom Allaah warns with the words (interpretation of the meaning): 

“Nay! Surely, they (evil doers) will be veiled from seeing their Lord that Day� 

[al-Mutafiffoon 83:15] 

That's all just more Islamic propaganda that means nothing because you said no one has seen God.