Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
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Burninglight
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Burninglight
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Challenge
Post #402You are patronizing me in your ignorance. Sikhism is a very small pantheistic religion founded during the 15th century in the Punjab region, by some weird Guru Dev which has nothing to do with the Abrahamic religions. What Allah did by his deception started Christianity by making it look like Jesus died on the cross. Lol, he even arranged for someone less to be put to death in place of the target person who was Jesus. Of course, I know this is not true, but Muslims believe this. Since they do, I am challenging you with this thread's topic "Why did Allah start Christianity" a religion that is larger and stronger than Islam? IOW, there is a connection with the one religion but not with the other; so your example comment doesn't work.Peace wrote: @Burninglight:
'So why did Allah start Christianity if he didn't want Muslims following it?
Seriously dude how old are you?
That's like saying why did God start Sikhism if he didn't want Christians following it?
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A Troubled Man
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A Troubled Man
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Post #404
Evolution explains my existence.HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Notice how the Evolutionist wants me to use science to prove the Quran to be true, Science that cannot even explain the reason for his existence, nor what will happen to him after his death, nor how the first humans to set foot onto the face of the earth were created, lol. Your obviously not reading properly cause the companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) were witnesses
I will be dead after I die.
Evolution explains humans.
Sorry to burst your fabricated bubble.
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Burninglight
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Post #405
Which god? The Islamic moon god may have chose Islam as the ultimate religion, but Christians don't recognize it as from our Creator, and we don't see Muhammad to be a prophet; in fact, there is no prove that Muhammad considered himself or anyone else considered him a prophet at the time of his ministry if you can even call it that.HaLi8993 wrote: God chose Islam as the ultimate religion for all of mankind not for a specific group of people.
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Peace
Post #406
@Burninglight:
Different from Christians who believe that only Christians go to Heaven and that Jesus was sent for the whole world, we he very clearly say he was sent 'to the lost sheep of the Children of Israel'. There are many people who aren't the children of Israel.
God made a disciple take Jesus's (peace be upon him) position to save the Messiah from the transgressing people that wanted to kill him.
If God created fire, is it His fault that people would start worshiping it? No, because we have free will so we can make decisions for ourselves. It would be our fault if we started worshiping the fire and not God.
Same reasoning can be used here.
If God helped save Jesus, is it His fault that hundreds of years later people would actually start and worship the cross and elevate Jesus (peace be upon him) to the rank of God? Of course God knows all that is going to happen, and He knew people would worship the fire and He knew people would worship Jesus, but He didn't make it unfair. He gave us the free will to do as we wish and even though He knew, it is still our fault for not using our reason and intellect. He did not make it obvious that we should worship Jesus (especially when the Bible says no such thing), He only saved His Prophet. Our own imaginations and interpolations have lead man down a stray road.
God makes it clear that such practices are in error, like you error riddled Bible and the absurd notion that God is One yet three. He makes it clear that your books that have no historical accuracy and have completely anonymous sources, cannot be held as reliable sources on Jesus's life. I don't think Jesus carried around a cross and I don't think his name was Jesus. In fact, if you went to his time and shouted Jesus he wouldn't even look at you since that wasn't his name. There is soo much unknown and added that I cannot possibly use my reason and arrive at the concept of One God with three forms. I cannot use my intellect and conclude that God ordered the enslaving of cities and ordered the killing of babies. I cannot use my intellect and insist that a rape victim should marry her attacker. These are things an All-Loving God would not have ordered.
So you see, He knew this would happen, but He didn't tell us to worship Jesus, we did that all on our own.
I judge a religion based on what it teaches, on its wisdom and on its message. A part is played when we look at the proper practitioners of such a religion and how they act. I also look to what such a message could do to a world. I look at the bigger picture, not focus on numbers and 'strength'. Even at Moses's (peace be upon him) time, Pharaoh was much 'stronger' and 'bigger', but by God's will, he was destroyed.
Some advice from me, it will help your arguments if you digest every point I make, not simply quote me and give me your ideas. Its almost like you don't even read my posts just skim through them (especially the 'Deception of God' absurdity that you are spreading). Quote sentences and words, not whole 'responses', or at least make it clear which point of mine you have addressed and which you haven't.
OK, I understand your point now. In Islam we believe God sent messengers to all of mankind, so it is possible that the roots of Sikhism or Buddhism or any 'ancient' religion started with the worship of One God, but then evolved into a completely different religion.You are patronizing me in your ignorance. Sikhism is a very small pantheistic religion founded during the 15th century in the Punjab region, by some weird Guru Dev which has nothing to do with the Abrahamic religions.
Different from Christians who believe that only Christians go to Heaven and that Jesus was sent for the whole world, we he very clearly say he was sent 'to the lost sheep of the Children of Israel'. There are many people who aren't the children of Israel.
I thoroughly refuted your misconception and mistranslated verse previously. The page right before actually. You should stop spreading lies now that I have shown otherwise.What Allah did by his deception
OK, I know exactly how to tackle your argument, there are several points I should make as well.started Christianity by making it look like Jesus died on the cross. Lol, he even arranged for someone less to be put to death in place of the target person who was Jesus. Of course, I know this is not true, but Muslims believe this.
God made a disciple take Jesus's (peace be upon him) position to save the Messiah from the transgressing people that wanted to kill him.
If God created fire, is it His fault that people would start worshiping it? No, because we have free will so we can make decisions for ourselves. It would be our fault if we started worshiping the fire and not God.
Same reasoning can be used here.
If God helped save Jesus, is it His fault that hundreds of years later people would actually start and worship the cross and elevate Jesus (peace be upon him) to the rank of God? Of course God knows all that is going to happen, and He knew people would worship the fire and He knew people would worship Jesus, but He didn't make it unfair. He gave us the free will to do as we wish and even though He knew, it is still our fault for not using our reason and intellect. He did not make it obvious that we should worship Jesus (especially when the Bible says no such thing), He only saved His Prophet. Our own imaginations and interpolations have lead man down a stray road.
God makes it clear that such practices are in error, like you error riddled Bible and the absurd notion that God is One yet three. He makes it clear that your books that have no historical accuracy and have completely anonymous sources, cannot be held as reliable sources on Jesus's life. I don't think Jesus carried around a cross and I don't think his name was Jesus. In fact, if you went to his time and shouted Jesus he wouldn't even look at you since that wasn't his name. There is soo much unknown and added that I cannot possibly use my reason and arrive at the concept of One God with three forms. I cannot use my intellect and conclude that God ordered the enslaving of cities and ordered the killing of babies. I cannot use my intellect and insist that a rape victim should marry her attacker. These are things an All-Loving God would not have ordered.
So you see, He knew this would happen, but He didn't tell us to worship Jesus, we did that all on our own.
Again with this 'larger' and 'stronger', (this is why I called this childish) is that how you judge the success of a religion? How strong and large it is? It's very clear of your 'military' ideas and nearness to the appeal to popularity fallacy is a motivating factor here.Since they do, I am challenging you with this thread's topic "Why did Allah start Christianity" a religion that is larger and stronger than Islam?
I judge a religion based on what it teaches, on its wisdom and on its message. A part is played when we look at the proper practitioners of such a religion and how they act. I also look to what such a message could do to a world. I look at the bigger picture, not focus on numbers and 'strength'. Even at Moses's (peace be upon him) time, Pharaoh was much 'stronger' and 'bigger', but by God's will, he was destroyed.
Of course both religions are connected, they are both interpolations and creations of man. Your Holy Bible shows this, your concepts show this and your persistence to not accept winning opposing arguments (God being deceiving) leads me to think that you will stay this way, and not debate properly.IOW, there is a connection with the one religion but not with the other; so your example comment doesn't work.
Some advice from me, it will help your arguments if you digest every point I make, not simply quote me and give me your ideas. Its almost like you don't even read my posts just skim through them (especially the 'Deception of God' absurdity that you are spreading). Quote sentences and words, not whole 'responses', or at least make it clear which point of mine you have addressed and which you haven't.
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Burninglight
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Allah "The Best of Deceivers"
Post #407I know the accuracy of a religion doesn't depend on size, but this source proves I am right about the deception of Allah. http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/ ... ceiver.htmPeace wrote: @Burninglight:
OK, I understand your point now. In Islam we believe God sent messengers to all of mankind, so it is possible that the roots of Sikhism or Buddhism or any 'ancient' religion started with the worship of One God, but then evolved into a completely different religion.You are patronizing me in your ignorance. Sikhism is a very small pantheistic religion founded during the 15th century in the Punjab region, by some weird Guru Dev which has nothing to do with the Abrahamic religions.
Different from Christians who believe that only Christians go to Heaven and that Jesus was sent for the whole world, we he very clearly say he was sent 'to the lost sheep of the Children of Israel'. There are many people who aren't the children of Israel.
I thoroughly refuted your misconception and mistranslated verse previously. The page right before actually. You should stop spreading lies now that I have shown otherwise.What Allah did by his deception
OK, I know exactly how to tackle your argument, there are several points I should make as well.started Christianity by making it look like Jesus died on the cross. Lol, he even arranged for someone less to be put to death in place of the target person who was Jesus. Of course, I know this is not true, but Muslims believe this.
God made a disciple take Jesus's (peace be upon him) position to save the Messiah from the transgressing people that wanted to kill him.
If God created fire, is it His fault that people would start worshiping it? No, because we have free will so we can make decisions for ourselves. It would be our fault if we started worshiping the fire and not God.
Same reasoning can be used here.
If God helped save Jesus, is it His fault that hundreds of years later people would actually start and worship the cross and elevate Jesus (peace be upon him) to the rank of God? Of course God knows all that is going to happen, and He knew people would worship the fire and He knew people would worship Jesus, but He didn't make it unfair. He gave us the free will to do as we wish and even though He knew, it is still our fault for not using our reason and intellect. He did not make it obvious that we should worship Jesus (especially when the Bible says no such thing), He only saved His Prophet. Our own imaginations and interpolations have lead man down a stray road.
God makes it clear that such practices are in error, like you error riddled Bible and the absurd notion that God is One yet three. He makes it clear that your books that have no historical accuracy and have completely anonymous sources, cannot be held as reliable sources on Jesus's life. I don't think Jesus carried around a cross and I don't think his name was Jesus. In fact, if you went to his time and shouted Jesus he wouldn't even look at you since that wasn't his name. There is soo much unknown and added that I cannot possibly use my reason and arrive at the concept of One God with three forms. I cannot use my intellect and conclude that God ordered the enslaving of cities and ordered the killing of babies. I cannot use my intellect and insist that a rape victim should marry her attacker. These are things an All-Loving God would not have ordered.
So you see, He knew this would happen, but He didn't tell us to worship Jesus, we did that all on our own.
Again with this 'larger' and 'stronger', (this is why I called this childish) is that how you judge the success of a religion? How strong and large it is? It's very clear of your 'military' ideas and nearness to the appeal to popularity fallacy is a motivating factor here.Since they do, I am challenging you with this thread's topic "Why did Allah start Christianity" a religion that is larger and stronger than Islam?
I judge a religion based on what it teaches, on its wisdom and on its message. A part is played when we look at the proper practitioners of such a religion and how they act. I also look to what such a message could do to a world. I look at the bigger picture, not focus on numbers and 'strength'. Even at Moses's (peace be upon him) time, Pharaoh was much 'stronger' and 'bigger', but by God's will, he was destroyed.
Of course both religions are connected, they are both interpolations and creations of man. Your Holy Bible shows this, your concepts show this and your persistence to not accept winning opposing arguments (God being deceiving) leads me to think that you will stay this way, and not debate properly.IOW, there is a connection with the one religion but not with the other; so your example comment doesn't work.
Some advice from me, it will help your arguments if you digest every point I make, not simply quote me and give me your ideas. Its almost like you don't even read my posts just skim through them (especially the 'Deception of God' absurdity that you are spreading). Quote sentences and words, not whole 'responses', or at least make it clear which point of mine you have addressed and which you haven't.
Muslims reject the gospel story of Jesus being a substitute for our sins, the just for the unjust. They use the illustration of a man having to pay for a speeding ticket he did not commit. My question is: How do you explain that in the Muslim view of the cross, someone completely innocent died in Jesus place, after God made him appear to be Jesus? Was not this a Substitutionary sacrifice?
Peace, you bring up the trinity a lot as if Christians have a problem with it, and they don’t. Please don’t bring it up anymore unless you can provide me with the following information:
1. Produce a Quranic reference attacking the exact formulation of the Trinity as hammered out by Christians in the official Creeds.
2. Show us where the Quran says that they are infidels/disbelievers who assert that God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
3. Present a text stating that Christians are blasphemers for believing that God is one and three at the same time.
4. Quote a citation which blames Christians for believing that Jesus is God in those exact words.
5. Moreover, find a passage that accurately defines the Christian understanding of Jesus’ Sonship and which claims that this is what it rejects.
6. Finally, show us a single place in the Quran which says that it is not possible for Allah to appear as or become a man.
God's word makes no provision to confirm Muhammad a prophet nor is there any record that he or anyone else considered him a prophet during his life time. Islam is just a false religion to me with a false god and prophet!!!
It is written: " He (Jesus) came unto His own but they rejected Him, but as many as received Him, to them gave He the power to become the sons of God. The Jews were supposed to present Jesus to the world as Messiah and God's son, but they rejected Him, but Jesus was meant for all mankind not just the Jews God's chosen people!!!
Post #408
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Yes, that's why it was revealed in the international language of Arabic, so everyone in the world could understand it, even the Cherokee and Navaho. LOL!"
ANSWER: lol, Everyone in the world can understand it, the Arabic language is unique, it is the most eloquent, plain, deep and expressive of the meanings that might arise in one's mind. Therefore, the most honorable Book, was revealed in the most honorable language. The Quran is perfect in every respect, it is easy, plain and clear and beautiful of all languages. The Quran is so eloquent and perfect in its wording and meanings, those do not believe in it their disbelief is one of stubbornness. It is a cure for doubts and confusion that exists in peoples hearts and a guidance of the hearts for these who believe in it. How could  foreign words be revealed to an Arab who does not understand them???Â
QURAN 41:44
And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness.Â
QURAN 12:2
Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.
QURAN 42:7
And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities [Makkah] and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.
QURAN: 44:58
And indeed, We have eased the Qur'an in your tongue that they might be reminded.
QUOTE: "Yes, that's why it was revealed in the international language of Arabic, so everyone in the world could understand it, even the Cherokee and Navaho. LOL!"
ANSWER: lol, Everyone in the world can understand it, the Arabic language is unique, it is the most eloquent, plain, deep and expressive of the meanings that might arise in one's mind. Therefore, the most honorable Book, was revealed in the most honorable language. The Quran is perfect in every respect, it is easy, plain and clear and beautiful of all languages. The Quran is so eloquent and perfect in its wording and meanings, those do not believe in it their disbelief is one of stubbornness. It is a cure for doubts and confusion that exists in peoples hearts and a guidance of the hearts for these who believe in it. How could  foreign words be revealed to an Arab who does not understand them???Â
QURAN 41:44
And if We had made it a non-Arabic Qur'an, they would have said, "Why are its verses not explained in detail [in our language]? Is it a foreign [recitation] and an Arab [messenger]?" Say, "It is, for those who believe, a guidance and cure." And those who do not believe - in their ears is deafness, and it is upon them blindness.Â
QURAN 12:2
Indeed, We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an that you might understand.
QURAN 42:7
And thus We have revealed to you an Arabic Qur'an that you may warn the Mother of Cities [Makkah] and those around it and warn of the Day of Assembly, about which there is no doubt. A party will be in Paradise and a party in the Blaze.
QURAN: 44:58
And indeed, We have eased the Qur'an in your tongue that they might be reminded.
Post #409
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Evolution explains my existence.Â
I will be dead after I die.Â
Evolution explains humans.Â
Sorry to burst your fabricated bubble"
ANSWER: What is your existence?? What will happen to you after death? Â and how can nothing turn into something through natural selection???
QUOTE: "Evolution explains my existence.Â
I will be dead after I die.Â
Evolution explains humans.Â
Sorry to burst your fabricated bubble"
ANSWER: What is your existence?? What will happen to you after death? Â and how can nothing turn into something through natural selection???
Post #410
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Which god? The Islamic moon god may have chose Islam as the ultimate religion, but Christians don't recognize it as from our Creator, and we don't see Muhammad to be a prophet; in fact, there is no prove that Muhammad considered himself or anyone else considered him a prophet at the time of his ministry if you can even call it that"
ANSWER: Islamic moon God?? Lol, how many times have we been through this. That's the problem you reject the truth, there is ample proof, God himself confirms the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well as the Torah and the Injeel, every single person who accepts Islam testifies that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a Prophet and the final Messenger to come for all of mankind.
QUOTE: "Which god? The Islamic moon god may have chose Islam as the ultimate religion, but Christians don't recognize it as from our Creator, and we don't see Muhammad to be a prophet; in fact, there is no prove that Muhammad considered himself or anyone else considered him a prophet at the time of his ministry if you can even call it that"
ANSWER: Islamic moon God?? Lol, how many times have we been through this. That's the problem you reject the truth, there is ample proof, God himself confirms the Prophethood of Muhammad (peace be upon him) as well as the Torah and the Injeel, every single person who accepts Islam testifies that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is a Prophet and the final Messenger to come for all of mankind.
