Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
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Burninglight
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Post #431
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Yes, I know, which is why no amount of evidence from biology, chemistry or physics will ever change Muhammad's words as far as you're concerned"
ANSWER: So are you going to answer the question?, what evidence does the study of biology, chemistry or physics offer in support that after you die it is the end?
The Quran is the words of God, we believe in the Creator of biology, chemistry and physics, who do you think would be correct the Creator or the Created?? People attribute to themselves such knowledge, prestige and arrogance thinking they can play with the Rules of God, claiming to be able to explain all that exists using science to justify it all, the fact of the matter is science cannot explain the matters of the Unseen, nor can it explain or know or predict the future, nor can it provide any information in matters that are not already known yet.
 God gives humans the ability to prosper in the face of factual science not through man himself, man himself is  unable to do anything without  God.  God has given us a perfect religion he has given us all we need to know about life, our existence and what will happen to us once we die, anything apart from what we have is not relevant. Therefore while scientists  continuing in search for the answers to life, we are striving to gain eternal happiness in the Hereafter.Â
QUOTE: "Yes, I know, which is why no amount of evidence from biology, chemistry or physics will ever change Muhammad's words as far as you're concerned"
ANSWER: So are you going to answer the question?, what evidence does the study of biology, chemistry or physics offer in support that after you die it is the end?
The Quran is the words of God, we believe in the Creator of biology, chemistry and physics, who do you think would be correct the Creator or the Created?? People attribute to themselves such knowledge, prestige and arrogance thinking they can play with the Rules of God, claiming to be able to explain all that exists using science to justify it all, the fact of the matter is science cannot explain the matters of the Unseen, nor can it explain or know or predict the future, nor can it provide any information in matters that are not already known yet.
 God gives humans the ability to prosper in the face of factual science not through man himself, man himself is  unable to do anything without  God.  God has given us a perfect religion he has given us all we need to know about life, our existence and what will happen to us once we die, anything apart from what we have is not relevant. Therefore while scientists  continuing in search for the answers to life, we are striving to gain eternal happiness in the Hereafter.Â
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A Troubled Man
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Post #432
Yes, I understand from previous posts that you will get us all to run around collecting all kinds of evidence so you can just ignore or deny it outright in favor of telling us you're a Muslim who will never change their mind because the Quran is perfect and beautiful or some such other propaganda.HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: So are you going to answer the question?, what evidence does the study of biology, chemistry or physics offer in support that after you die it is the end?
And, there we have the propaganda, right on schedule.The Quran is the words of God, we believe in the Creator of biology, chemistry and physics, who do you think would be correct the Creator or the Created??
What's really hypocritical is the fact you attempt to align verses from the Quran with scientific discoveries and now proceed to fallaciously tear science down because it doesn't align with your beliefs in the least.People attribute to themselves such knowledge, prestige and arrogance thinking they can play with the Rules of God, claiming to be able to explain all that exists using science to justify it all, the fact of the matter is science cannot explain the matters of the Unseen, nor can it explain or know or predict the future, nor can it provide any information in matters that are not already known yet.
Islamic propaganda. All of it.God gives humans the ability to prosper in the face of factual science not through man himself, man himself is unable to do anything without God. God has given us a perfect religion he has given us all we need to know about life, our existence and what will happen to us once we die, anything apart from what we have is not relevant. Therefore while scientists continuing in search for the answers to life, we are striving to gain eternal happiness in the Hereafter.
Post #433
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Yes, I understand from previous posts that you will get us all to run around collecting all kinds of evidence so you can just ignore or deny it outright in favor of telling us you're a Muslim who will never change their mind because the Quran is perfect and beautiful or some such other propaganda"
ANSWER: That is 100% correct, because the evidence you provide cannot be called evidence at all.
QUOTE: "And, there we have the propaganda, right on schedule"
ANSWER: Have you contributed anything to this debate??? Lol
QUOTE: "What's really hypocritical is the fact you attempt to align verses from the Quran with scientific discoveries and now proceed to fallaciously tear science down because it doesn't align with your beliefs in the least"
ANSWER: It's actually the other way around the Science is now proving the Quran correct. We don't disapprove of science provided it is the truth.
QUOTE: "Islamic propaganda. All of it"
ANSWER: I think you should replace Islamic with Atheist lol.
QUOTE: "Yes, I understand from previous posts that you will get us all to run around collecting all kinds of evidence so you can just ignore or deny it outright in favor of telling us you're a Muslim who will never change their mind because the Quran is perfect and beautiful or some such other propaganda"
ANSWER: That is 100% correct, because the evidence you provide cannot be called evidence at all.
QUOTE: "And, there we have the propaganda, right on schedule"
ANSWER: Have you contributed anything to this debate??? Lol
QUOTE: "What's really hypocritical is the fact you attempt to align verses from the Quran with scientific discoveries and now proceed to fallaciously tear science down because it doesn't align with your beliefs in the least"
ANSWER: It's actually the other way around the Science is now proving the Quran correct. We don't disapprove of science provided it is the truth.
QUOTE: "Islamic propaganda. All of it"
ANSWER: I think you should replace Islamic with Atheist lol.
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A Troubled Man
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Post #434
The Islamic propagandist does as much if not more harm to their religion than anything or anyone else, other than the violence we see from the extremists the propagandist will be totally dishonest, never once telling the truth if it conflicts with Islam even going so far as to admit they will only approve of science or reality as long as it supports their vague interpretation of Islam.HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: It's actually the other way around the Science is now proving the Quran correct. We don't disapprove of science provided it is the truth.
Post #435
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "The Islamic propagandist does as much if not more harm to their religion than anything or anyone else, other than the violence we see from the extremists the propagandist will be totally dishonest, never once telling the truth if it conflicts with Islam even going so far as to admit they will only approve of science or reality as long as it supports their vague interpretation of Islam"
ANSWER: I think you should be more concerned about the harm you are causing to yourself while continuing to believe there is no God, the problem the way I see it is that Man thinks he knows everything about life placing himself higher than God in knowledge relying on science to prove it, while God is the Creator of all that exists including himself.
QUOTE: "The Islamic propagandist does as much if not more harm to their religion than anything or anyone else, other than the violence we see from the extremists the propagandist will be totally dishonest, never once telling the truth if it conflicts with Islam even going so far as to admit they will only approve of science or reality as long as it supports their vague interpretation of Islam"
ANSWER: I think you should be more concerned about the harm you are causing to yourself while continuing to believe there is no God, the problem the way I see it is that Man thinks he knows everything about life placing himself higher than God in knowledge relying on science to prove it, while God is the Creator of all that exists including himself.
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Burninglight
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Post #436
Simply believing in God does not keep us from spiritual harm. For instance, The devils believe, fear and tremble. That cannot save a persons soul for eternity. Only Jesus canHaLi8993 wrote: @ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "The Islamic propagandist does as much if not more harm to their religion than anything or anyone else, other than the violence we see from the extremists the propagandist will be totally dishonest, never once telling the truth if it conflicts with Islam even going so far as to admit they will only approve of science or reality as long as it supports their vague interpretation of Islam"
ANSWER: I think you should be more concerned about the harm you are causing to yourself while continuing to believe there is no God, the problem the way I see it is that Man thinks he knows everything about life placing himself higher than God in knowledge relying on science to prove it, while God is the Creator of all that exists including himself.
Post #437
@ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Simply believing in God does not keep us from spiritual harm. For instance, The devils believe, fear and tremble. That cannot save a persons soul for eternity. Only Jesus can"
ANSWER: Yes, but not believing in God brings harm to other and yourself, Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God, so you can he save you when he did not possess the power to save himself on the cross??Â
QUOTE: "Simply believing in God does not keep us from spiritual harm. For instance, The devils believe, fear and tremble. That cannot save a persons soul for eternity. Only Jesus can"
ANSWER: Yes, but not believing in God brings harm to other and yourself, Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God, so you can he save you when he did not possess the power to save himself on the cross??Â
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A Troubled Man
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Post #438
[quote="[url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 779#484779&]
ANSWER: I think you should be more concerned about the harm you are causing to yourself while continuing to believe there is no God[/quote]
Then, there is little harm if none at all because it has nothing to do with a belief in a God that doesn't exist, I simply don't accept Muhammad's claims as plausible.
ANSWER: I think you should be more concerned about the harm you are causing to yourself while continuing to believe there is no God[/quote]
Then, there is little harm if none at all because it has nothing to do with a belief in a God that doesn't exist, I simply don't accept Muhammad's claims as plausible.
Man does no such thing and does not place himself higher than gods simply because there is no evidence for gods, so gods are not a concept in their minds to consider when attempting to understand nature.the problem the way I see it is that Man thinks he knows everything about life placing himself higher than God in knowledge relying on science to prove it, while God is the Creator of all that exists including himself.
Post #439
@ A Troubled Man
QUOTE: "Then, there is little harm if none at all because it has nothing to do with a belief in a God that doesn't exist, I simply don't accept Muhammad's claims as plausible"
ANSWER: It is one of the greatest harms a person can achieve, as denial of God is worse than that of Saytan who (at least) acknowledged Him. You are causing harm to yourself by depriving yourself of the Rewards, Mercy, Guidance, Protection and most importantly Paradise that awaits those true believers and worshipers of God according to His laws. You are also harming others as you are diverting them from following the Message, hence misguiding them and leading them to a path of destruction, you will be held accountable for what you have caused them to do.
The strange view that Atheism has in regards to the universe and everything in it coming about purely by chance is contrary to sound human nature, reason and logic, and is contrary to simple logic and indisputable facts. Such a person would transgress every sacred limit and fall into every sin, his worldview would be distorted.
The way that I see it is that Atheism goes against natural tendencies to believe in God, this belief is not always deeply rooted in the hearts of the atheists, and they affirm that they are only professing atheism outwardly, deep down he believes in one God. But he continues his life denying it due to stubbornness or other worldly reasons.
QUOTE: "Man does no such thing and does not place himself higher than gods simply because there is no evidence for gods, so gods are not a concept in their minds to consider when attempting to understand nature"
ANSWER: There is plenty of evidence that leads to none other but the belief in a Creator, but people are in search of the answers from science instead of reliance on the Creator of science. God is the one that has Created nature and yet people want to turn to others who are constantly changing their theories, where by science keeps developing and brains are limited in knowing the matters of the Unseen. If I were to discover a watch on the beach with such mechanisms that make it function, I would certainly not call this chance or coincidence because someone must have put that watch there, it must of come from some where it must have a Maintainer, Owner, Creator and Sustainer.
QUOTE: "Then, there is little harm if none at all because it has nothing to do with a belief in a God that doesn't exist, I simply don't accept Muhammad's claims as plausible"
ANSWER: It is one of the greatest harms a person can achieve, as denial of God is worse than that of Saytan who (at least) acknowledged Him. You are causing harm to yourself by depriving yourself of the Rewards, Mercy, Guidance, Protection and most importantly Paradise that awaits those true believers and worshipers of God according to His laws. You are also harming others as you are diverting them from following the Message, hence misguiding them and leading them to a path of destruction, you will be held accountable for what you have caused them to do.
The strange view that Atheism has in regards to the universe and everything in it coming about purely by chance is contrary to sound human nature, reason and logic, and is contrary to simple logic and indisputable facts. Such a person would transgress every sacred limit and fall into every sin, his worldview would be distorted.
The way that I see it is that Atheism goes against natural tendencies to believe in God, this belief is not always deeply rooted in the hearts of the atheists, and they affirm that they are only professing atheism outwardly, deep down he believes in one God. But he continues his life denying it due to stubbornness or other worldly reasons.
QUOTE: "Man does no such thing and does not place himself higher than gods simply because there is no evidence for gods, so gods are not a concept in their minds to consider when attempting to understand nature"
ANSWER: There is plenty of evidence that leads to none other but the belief in a Creator, but people are in search of the answers from science instead of reliance on the Creator of science. God is the one that has Created nature and yet people want to turn to others who are constantly changing their theories, where by science keeps developing and brains are limited in knowing the matters of the Unseen. If I were to discover a watch on the beach with such mechanisms that make it function, I would certainly not call this chance or coincidence because someone must have put that watch there, it must of come from some where it must have a Maintainer, Owner, Creator and Sustainer.
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Burninglight
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In Jesus dwells the fullness of the Godhead bodily!
Post #440Jesus said, "I have power to lay down my life and take it back again." Jesus did rise from the dead. Your argument is insincere, because you are using an argument that you don't even believe in to support your claims.HaLi8993 wrote: @ Burninglight
QUOTE: "Simply believing in God does not keep us from spiritual harm. For instance, The devils believe, fear and tremble. That cannot save a persons soul for eternity. Only Jesus can"
ANSWER: Yes, but not believing in God brings harm to other and yourself, Jesus (peace be upon him) is not God, so you can he save you when he did not possess the power to save himself on the cross??Â
Muslim don't believe Jesus died on the cross so why do you use what isn't real to you to support Islam's deceptions? This is what is deceptive and twisted about Islam. It will say everything and anything to get adherents and keep them whether it is true or not. IMO, Islam's enemy is truth and knoweldge; its friend is ignorance and deception...
