Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
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Burninglight
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Post #51
Burninglight
QUOTE: "They're deviants? That is what they say about those that ascribe a partner to Allah in the Shahadah. For instance, they know that you can't just say you believe in Allah as your only true god; you must say and Muhammad is his messenger or prophet or apostle. If you don't mention or associate Muhammad's name in the shahadah prayer, you can't be a Muslim. How can you say Quranist are not Muslims, but you are when you are the one associating Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah?"
ANSWER: Quranist don't follow Hadith so how are they Muslim??, we know a pillar of Islam is praying so if they don't follow Hadith how would they even know how to pray? We are commanded in the Quran to obey Allah and the Messenger, how to we obey the Messenger by following his Hadith.
Explain to be how it is associating partners with Allah. We are not saying Allah is the only true God in the Shahada, we are acknowledging that there is none worthy of worship but God.
QUOTE: "They're deviants? That is what they say about those that ascribe a partner to Allah in the Shahadah. For instance, they know that you can't just say you believe in Allah as your only true god; you must say and Muhammad is his messenger or prophet or apostle. If you don't mention or associate Muhammad's name in the shahadah prayer, you can't be a Muslim. How can you say Quranist are not Muslims, but you are when you are the one associating Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah?"
ANSWER: Quranist don't follow Hadith so how are they Muslim??, we know a pillar of Islam is praying so if they don't follow Hadith how would they even know how to pray? We are commanded in the Quran to obey Allah and the Messenger, how to we obey the Messenger by following his Hadith.
Explain to be how it is associating partners with Allah. We are not saying Allah is the only true God in the Shahada, we are acknowledging that there is none worthy of worship but God.
Post #52
Did Allah start Christianity?Christianity existed long before Islam or the concept of Allah. In my opinion, the only thing Allah ever started was a war.
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
. . . . the list goes on and on and on, the entire book is a war against 'infidels' it seems. To me, this is not a peaceful religion, nor one that should be tolerated.
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
"Seek out your enemies relentlessly." (Surah 4:103-)
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
"Believers, when you encounter the infidels on the march, do not turn your backs to them in flight. If anyone on that day turns his back to them, except it be for tactical reasons...he shall incur the wrath of God and Hell shall be his home..." (Surah 8:12-)
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
"...make war on the leaders of unbelief...Make war on them: God will chastise them at your hands and humble them. He will grant you victory over them..." (Surah 9:12-)
"Fight against such as those to whom the Scriptures were given [Jews and Christians]...until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued." (Surah 9:27-)
"It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the true Faith [Islam] to make it triumphant over all religions, however much the idolaters [non-Muslims] may dislike it." (Surah 9:31-)
"If you do not fight, He will punish you sternly, and replace you by other men." (Surah 9:37-)
"Prophet make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home." (Surah 9:73)
. . . . the list goes on and on and on, the entire book is a war against 'infidels' it seems. To me, this is not a peaceful religion, nor one that should be tolerated.
Post #53
Ankhhape
It is very easy to just pick out verses from the Quran and misinterpret them as you have, I think you should take a closer look at your own bible first before you jump to conclusions about Islam. The bible has many verses just like this also. I could go through every single verse you have posted and give you an answer but I will just explain the first one cause I don't really see a point in educating people that don't want to search for the truth:
In regards to fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
The verses you quoted came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in the verses below:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"
"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"
"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"
It is very easy to just pick out verses from the Quran and misinterpret them as you have, I think you should take a closer look at your own bible first before you jump to conclusions about Islam. The bible has many verses just like this also. I could go through every single verse you have posted and give you an answer but I will just explain the first one cause I don't really see a point in educating people that don't want to search for the truth:
In regards to fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
The verses you quoted came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in the verses below:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"
"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"
"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"
Post #54
Just as easy as interpreting them as you need them?HaLi8993 wrote: Ankhhape
It is very easy to just pick out verses from the Quran and misinterpret them as you have
What bible would that be? I am a Luciferian.I think you should take a closer look at your own bible first before you jump to conclusions about Islam
Agreed, the Christian bible is full of hypocrisies and the OT in particular is extremely evil.The bible has many verses just like this also. I could go through every single verse you have posted and give you an answer but I will just explain the first one cause I don't really see a point in educating people that don't want to search for the truth:
Twist your own book of the word of god anyway you wish, I remain unconvinced to the peacefulness of Islam.In regards to fighting the hostile enemy, Allah Almighty Made it crystal clear in the Noble Quran about being peaceful to ordinary and peaceful non-Muslims, and being very hostile to the hostile enemy:
"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. (The Noble Quran, 2:190)"
The verses you quoted came for specific times and places. They don't apply for all times and everybody! I can't slay you, a non-Muslim, just because you're not a Muslim. The pagan Arabs were very hostile people and only knew the sword as an answer. Many wars were imposed upon the Muslims, and thus, it is only normal and natural to find Noble Verses that deal with these specific hostile situations. But the Message of the Noble Quran is PEACE, as clearly proven in the verses below:
"On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (The Noble Quran, 5:32)"
"Those who invoke not, with God, any other god, nor slay such life as God has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; - and any that does this (not only) meets punishment. (But) the Penalty on the Day Of Judgement will be doubled To him, and he will dwell Therein in ignominy. (The Noble Quran, 25:68-69)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God: for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things). (The Noble Quran, 8:61)"
"If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee: for I do fear God, the cherisher of the worlds. (The Noble Quran, 5:28)"
"God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers. (The Noble Quran, 60:8)"
"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for God. But if they desist, then let there be no hostility except against wrongdoers. (The Noble Quran 2:193)"
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy handhold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. (The Noble Quran, 2:256)"
"Again and again will those who disbelieve, wish that they had bowed (to God's will) in Islam. Leave them alone, to enjoy (the good things of this life) and to please themselves: let (false) hope amuse them: soon will knowledge (undeceive them). (The Noble Quran, 15:2-3)"
"Say, 'The truth is from your Lord': Let him who will believe, and let him who will, reject (it):......(The Noble Quran, 18:29)"
"If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, against their will, to believe! (The Noble Quran, 10:99)"
"Say: 'Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger: but if ye turn away, he is only responsible for the duty placed on him and ye for that placed on you. If ye obey him, ye shall be on right guidance. The Messenger's duty is only to preach the clear (Message). (The Noble Quran, 24:54)"
"Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine. (The Noble Quran, 109:1-6)"
Post #55
And christians do not call upon pieces of stone.QUOTE: "How can you argue against something you do not understamd in the least? If simply calling upon something is idol worship you most certainly do worship mohammed"
ANSWER: What's there to understand it's very simple. We don't call upon Muhammad (peace be upon him) maybe deviant sects do.
Neither do christians. Strange that all muslims face Mecca and at the center of Mecca there is a large stone idol which during the hajj thousands of muslims circle endlessly.QUOTE: "They are a means to focus prayer just as you face mecca. How are islamic worry beads any different than a rosary?"
ANSWER: It's an idol why would you need an idol to focus prayer, when this is disallowed in your religion. We don't worship an idol to direct ourselves to Mecca. Beads are not idols we don't worship beads, nor ask from them or direct our prayers to them.
No the master has a choice not the slave.QUOTE: "Freedom, slaves have no choice as to what they do while servants have the ability to choose"
ANSWER: Slaves in Islam have a choice, they can be set free.
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Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #56
They circle the kaaba. This shows the futileness of Islam. They walk around it in a counter clockwise way. Some people get trampled and die during this ritual. There is more than one Kaaba too.Wyvern wrote:And christians do not call upon pieces of stone.QUOTE: "How can you argue against something you do not understamd in the least? If simply calling upon something is idol worship you most certainly do worship mohammed"
ANSWER: What's there to understand it's very simple. We don't call upon Muhammad (peace be upon him) maybe deviant sects do.
Neither do christians. Strange that all muslims face Mecca and at the center of Mecca there is a large stone idol which during the hajj thousands of muslims circle endlessly.QUOTE: "They are a means to focus prayer just as you face mecca. How are islamic worry beads any different than a rosary?"
ANSWER: It's an idol why would you need an idol to focus prayer, when this is disallowed in your religion. We don't worship an idol to direct ourselves to Mecca. Beads are not idols we don't worship beads, nor ask from them or direct our prayers to them.
No the master has a choice not the slave.QUOTE: "Freedom, slaves have no choice as to what they do while servants have the ability to choose"
ANSWER: Slaves in Islam have a choice, they can be set free.
Post #57
Ankhhape:
QUOTE: "Just as easy as interpreting them as you need them?"
ANSWER: No, actually I'm not in the position to interpret Quranic verses.
QUOTE: "What bible would that be? I am a Luciferian"
ANSWER: Do you believe that Lucifer is Satan??
QUOTE: "Agreed, the Christian bible is full of hypocrisies and the OT in particular is extremely evil"
ANSWER: ok....fair enough
QUOTE: "Twist your own book of the word of god anyway you wish, I remain unconvinced to the peacefulness of Islam"
ANSWER: What is so unpeaceful about it??
QUOTE: "Just as easy as interpreting them as you need them?"
ANSWER: No, actually I'm not in the position to interpret Quranic verses.
QUOTE: "What bible would that be? I am a Luciferian"
ANSWER: Do you believe that Lucifer is Satan??
QUOTE: "Agreed, the Christian bible is full of hypocrisies and the OT in particular is extremely evil"
ANSWER: ok....fair enough
QUOTE: "Twist your own book of the word of god anyway you wish, I remain unconvinced to the peacefulness of Islam"
ANSWER: What is so unpeaceful about it??
Post #58
Wyvern,
QUOTE: "And christians do not call upon pieces of stone"
ANSWER: Christians create images and statues and commit idolatry whenever they revere a creature in place of God. Why do Christians have images and statues when they are disallowed??
QUOTE: "Neither do christians. Strange that all muslims face Mecca and at the center of Mecca there is a large stone idol which during the hajj thousands of muslims circle endlessly"
ANSWER: When Muslims pray facing the direction of the Kabah, we do so because Allaah has commanded us to do that. If he had commanded us to pray facing in any other direction we would of had to do that.
Our prayers facing the direction of the Kabah has nothing to do with the structure of the Kabah, rather it has to do with its location. If it were to be destroyed, we would still pray in that direction, not to that structure.
Muslims in Mecca pray on the second storey and on the roof of the Grand Mosque in the Sanctuary of Mecca, facing the direction of the Kabah even though it is not directly in front of them. This is what millions of Muslims do throughout the world, praying in the direction of the Kabah even though they cannot see it.
This demonstrates the great difference between the laws of Islam and the actions of those who their worship ceases when these objects cease to exist. Therefore if the object of worship or idol is not present, he does not face the direction of that thing.
QUOTE: "No the master has a choice not the slave"
They can request freedom.
QUOTE: "And christians do not call upon pieces of stone"
ANSWER: Christians create images and statues and commit idolatry whenever they revere a creature in place of God. Why do Christians have images and statues when they are disallowed??
QUOTE: "Neither do christians. Strange that all muslims face Mecca and at the center of Mecca there is a large stone idol which during the hajj thousands of muslims circle endlessly"
ANSWER: When Muslims pray facing the direction of the Kabah, we do so because Allaah has commanded us to do that. If he had commanded us to pray facing in any other direction we would of had to do that.
Our prayers facing the direction of the Kabah has nothing to do with the structure of the Kabah, rather it has to do with its location. If it were to be destroyed, we would still pray in that direction, not to that structure.
Muslims in Mecca pray on the second storey and on the roof of the Grand Mosque in the Sanctuary of Mecca, facing the direction of the Kabah even though it is not directly in front of them. This is what millions of Muslims do throughout the world, praying in the direction of the Kabah even though they cannot see it.
This demonstrates the great difference between the laws of Islam and the actions of those who their worship ceases when these objects cease to exist. Therefore if the object of worship or idol is not present, he does not face the direction of that thing.
QUOTE: "No the master has a choice not the slave"
They can request freedom.
Post #59
Burninglight
QUOTE: "They circle the kaaba. This shows the futileness of Islam. They walk around it in a counter clockwise way. Some people get trampled and die during this ritual. There is more than one Kaaba too"
ANSWER: what's your point?? There is no second Kabah this is false. Your video is an attempt to defame Islam once again. Prove these things to be true and I will believe you.
QUOTE: "They circle the kaaba. This shows the futileness of Islam. They walk around it in a counter clockwise way. Some people get trampled and die during this ritual. There is more than one Kaaba too"
ANSWER: what's your point?? There is no second Kabah this is false. Your video is an attempt to defame Islam once again. Prove these things to be true and I will believe you.
Post #60
Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other imagesQUOTE: "And christians do not call upon pieces of stone"
ANSWER: Christians create images and statues and commit idolatry whenever they revere a creature in place of God. Why do Christians have images and statues when they are disallowed??
What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?QUOTE: "Neither do christians. Strange that all muslims face Mecca and at the center of Mecca there is a large stone idol which during the hajj thousands of muslims circle endlessly"
ANSWER: When Muslims pray facing the direction of the Kabah, we do so because Allaah has commanded us to do that. If he had commanded us to pray facing in any other direction we would of had to do that.
Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding.Our prayers facing the direction of the Kabah has nothing to do with the structure of the Kabah, rather it has to do with its location. If it were to be destroyed, we would still pray in that direction, not to that structure.
Muslims in Mecca pray on the second storey and on the roof of the Grand Mosque in the Sanctuary of Mecca, facing the direction of the Kabah even though it is not directly in front of them. This is what millions of Muslims do throughout the world, praying in the direction of the Kabah even though they cannot see it.
Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?This demonstrates the great difference between the laws of Islam and the actions of those who their worship ceases when these objects cease to exist. Therefore if the object of worship or idol is not present, he does not face the direction of that thing.
Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car.QUOTE: "No the master has a choice not the slave"
They can request freedom.
