Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
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Burninglight
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Post #511
Burninglight
QUOTE: "Did you look it up in Arabic? Take a look at this video in its entirety and you see the error of your questioning me lol"
ANSWER: Nope I didnt, thanks but no thanks, if your going to prove something your going to have to do it from my sources not a you tube video. Surely one of the English translations would prove what your trying to imply. I think this is another attempt by you to prove yourself correct but I have a feeling the answer wouldn't even be in that video cause you would most likely be aware that I wouldn't watch a 2 hour video. Nice Try!
QUOTE: "Did you look it up in Arabic? Take a look at this video in its entirety and you see the error of your questioning me lol"
ANSWER: Nope I didnt, thanks but no thanks, if your going to prove something your going to have to do it from my sources not a you tube video. Surely one of the English translations would prove what your trying to imply. I think this is another attempt by you to prove yourself correct but I have a feeling the answer wouldn't even be in that video cause you would most likely be aware that I wouldn't watch a 2 hour video. Nice Try!
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Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #512
The video breaks down the Arabic word so you can understand that the Arabic says Allah prayed with the angels for Muhammad. It proves this is true, but you are closing you eyes saying in essence "Nice try, Thanks but no thanks. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" This is what you are saying so there is no way to prove a point to you. That is why I said Islam's best friend is ignorance and deception; its enemy is truth and knowledge!HaLi8993 wrote: Burninglight
QUOTE: "Did you look it up in Arabic? Take a look at this video in its entirety and you see the error of your questioning me lol"
ANSWER: Nope I didnt, thanks but no thanks, if your going to prove something your going to have to do it from my sources not a you tube video. Surely one of the English translations would prove what your trying to imply. I think this is another attempt by you to prove yourself correct but I have a feeling the answer wouldn't even be in that video cause you would most likely be aware that I wouldn't watch a 2 hour video. Nice Try!
An Arabic translator is on that show with them. They have Muslim callers that address issues. It is not 2 hours, and it explains what I said toward the end. So don't ask or tell me "you are kidding right?" or must be joking when I am very serious!!!
PBUY and may you come to the knowledge of truth!
Post #513
Burninlight
QUOTE: "The video breaks down the Arabic word so you can understand that the Arabic says Allah prayed with the angels for Muhammad. It proves this is true, but you are closing you eyes saying in essence "Nice try, Thanks but no thanks. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" This is what you are saying so there is no way to prove a point to you. That is why I said Islam's best friend is ignorance and deception; its enemy is truth and knowledge!
An Arabic translator is on that show with them. They have Muslim callers that address issues. It is not 2 hours, and it explains what I said toward the end. So don't ask or tell me "you are kidding right?" or must be joking when I am very serious!!!
PBUY and may you come to the knowledge of truth!"
ANSWER: Burninglight I wouldn't need to watch the video to know it is not true, cause this argument is not something new. These are not facts at all, yes my mind is made up cause the falsehood is very clear. If you want to prove a point to me it needs to be free from lies and deception. Seeing as you have insisted to continue with this topic let me show you it is incorrect.
The misguided people that have no knowledge claim that Allah prays and they use the following verse along with others to suggest such a thing:
33.43
"He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers."
Such people claim that the translations are wrongly translated putting the word blessing rather than putting the word praying or prayer, since in Arabic the text says salawatun, yusallee and yusalloona which mean praying in Arabic not blessing, while blessing in Arabic is called baraka.
Hence from this they conclude that Allah prays, and the translations are wrong, and they ask the Muslim's who does Allah pray to?
Such people need to do their homework if they had only consulted the tafsir this argument would be easily refuted.
So to refute this claim one must only look at the tafsir of Ibn Kathir in regards to Surah 33:56 which will refute the entire argument:
The Meaning of Salah
Allah's Salah means that He praises His servant before the angels, as Al-Bukhari recorded from Abu Al-Aliyah. This was recorded by Abu Jafar Ar-Razi from Ar-Rabi bin Anas from Anas. Others said: "Allah's Salah means mercy.'' It may be said that there is no contradiction between these two views. And Allah knows best. Salah from the angels means their supplication and seeking forgiveness for people, as Allah says:
QURAN: 40:7-9
"Those who bear the Throne and those around it glorify the praises of their Lord, and believe in Him, and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): "Our Lord! You comprehend all things in mercy and knowledge, so forgive those who repent and follow Your way, and save them from the torment of the blazing Fire! Our Lord! And make them enter the Adn Garden which you have promised them -- and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their offspring! Verily, You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. And save them from the sins"
"that He may bring you out from darkness into light" - means, by means of His mercy towards you, His praise of you and the supplication of His angels for you, He brings you forth from the darkness of ignorance and misguidance into the light of guidance and certain faith.
Therefore Allah's Salah (prayer) does not mean prayer, rather it is him praising his servants before the angels, and also sending down his mercy upon them. So the translations are not wrong in putting the word blessing, because if Allah praises you among his angels and sends his mercy down to you than that is indeed a blessing. Now some might say but doesnt Salah mean praying? Yes, it does, however so, when the term is applied to God the term does not mean prayer rather it means sending mercy and praising, when the term is applied on a normal human, it refers to prayer, but not when refered to Allah
One Sheikh even writes:
This is well known among the scholars, but the correct view is something different, because blessing (salaah) is more specific than mercy. Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that it is permissible to pray for mercy for every believer, but they differed as to whether we may pray for blessings (using this specific word of salaah or salli ala) for anyone other than the Prophets. If the word salaah here is taken to mean mercy, then there is no difference between them, and just as we pray for mercy for a person we may send blessings upon them.
Moreover it becomes crystal clear that Allah does not pray, and that the haters of Islam intentionally distort the meaning of Allah's Salah lying to the Muslims claiming it means praying, when in fact the term Salah when used for Allah does not mean praying rather it means sending down mercy and praising his servant.
I think this question needs to be directed at the Christians as they have no good response when asked why their god Jesus prayed, and why God would need to pray. Lol
QUOTE: "The video breaks down the Arabic word so you can understand that the Arabic says Allah prayed with the angels for Muhammad. It proves this is true, but you are closing you eyes saying in essence "Nice try, Thanks but no thanks. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" This is what you are saying so there is no way to prove a point to you. That is why I said Islam's best friend is ignorance and deception; its enemy is truth and knowledge!
An Arabic translator is on that show with them. They have Muslim callers that address issues. It is not 2 hours, and it explains what I said toward the end. So don't ask or tell me "you are kidding right?" or must be joking when I am very serious!!!
PBUY and may you come to the knowledge of truth!"
ANSWER: Burninglight I wouldn't need to watch the video to know it is not true, cause this argument is not something new. These are not facts at all, yes my mind is made up cause the falsehood is very clear. If you want to prove a point to me it needs to be free from lies and deception. Seeing as you have insisted to continue with this topic let me show you it is incorrect.
The misguided people that have no knowledge claim that Allah prays and they use the following verse along with others to suggest such a thing:
33.43
"He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers."
Such people claim that the translations are wrongly translated putting the word blessing rather than putting the word praying or prayer, since in Arabic the text says salawatun, yusallee and yusalloona which mean praying in Arabic not blessing, while blessing in Arabic is called baraka.
Hence from this they conclude that Allah prays, and the translations are wrong, and they ask the Muslim's who does Allah pray to?
Such people need to do their homework if they had only consulted the tafsir this argument would be easily refuted.
So to refute this claim one must only look at the tafsir of Ibn Kathir in regards to Surah 33:56 which will refute the entire argument:
The Meaning of Salah
Allah's Salah means that He praises His servant before the angels, as Al-Bukhari recorded from Abu Al-Aliyah. This was recorded by Abu Jafar Ar-Razi from Ar-Rabi bin Anas from Anas. Others said: "Allah's Salah means mercy.'' It may be said that there is no contradiction between these two views. And Allah knows best. Salah from the angels means their supplication and seeking forgiveness for people, as Allah says:
QURAN: 40:7-9
"Those who bear the Throne and those around it glorify the praises of their Lord, and believe in Him, and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): "Our Lord! You comprehend all things in mercy and knowledge, so forgive those who repent and follow Your way, and save them from the torment of the blazing Fire! Our Lord! And make them enter the Adn Garden which you have promised them -- and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their offspring! Verily, You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. And save them from the sins"
"that He may bring you out from darkness into light" - means, by means of His mercy towards you, His praise of you and the supplication of His angels for you, He brings you forth from the darkness of ignorance and misguidance into the light of guidance and certain faith.
Therefore Allah's Salah (prayer) does not mean prayer, rather it is him praising his servants before the angels, and also sending down his mercy upon them. So the translations are not wrong in putting the word blessing, because if Allah praises you among his angels and sends his mercy down to you than that is indeed a blessing. Now some might say but doesnt Salah mean praying? Yes, it does, however so, when the term is applied to God the term does not mean prayer rather it means sending mercy and praising, when the term is applied on a normal human, it refers to prayer, but not when refered to Allah
One Sheikh even writes:
This is well known among the scholars, but the correct view is something different, because blessing (salaah) is more specific than mercy. Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that it is permissible to pray for mercy for every believer, but they differed as to whether we may pray for blessings (using this specific word of salaah or salli ala) for anyone other than the Prophets. If the word salaah here is taken to mean mercy, then there is no difference between them, and just as we pray for mercy for a person we may send blessings upon them.
Moreover it becomes crystal clear that Allah does not pray, and that the haters of Islam intentionally distort the meaning of Allah's Salah lying to the Muslims claiming it means praying, when in fact the term Salah when used for Allah does not mean praying rather it means sending down mercy and praising his servant.
I think this question needs to be directed at the Christians as they have no good response when asked why their god Jesus prayed, and why God would need to pray. Lol
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Burninglight
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #514
It makes prefect sense and it is clear as crystal. When Allah deceives it is not deception; when he prays it is not prayer. When Allah sends down his spirit apart from himself, it is not his partner, and when Muslim recite the shahadah, saying "...and Muhammad is his apostle" that is not an association with Allah. It all makes perfect sense lolHaLi8993 wrote: Burninlight
QUOTE: "The video breaks down the Arabic word so you can understand that the Arabic says Allah prayed with the angels for Muhammad. It proves this is true, but you are closing you eyes saying in essence "Nice try, Thanks but no thanks. Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" This is what you are saying so there is no way to prove a point to you. That is why I said Islam's best friend is ignorance and deception; its enemy is truth and knowledge!
An Arabic translator is on that show with them. They have Muslim callers that address issues. It is not 2 hours, and it explains what I said toward the end. So don't ask or tell me "you are kidding right?" or must be joking when I am very serious!!!
PBUY and may you come to the knowledge of truth!"
ANSWER: Burninglight I wouldn't need to watch the video to know it is not true, cause this argument is not something new. These are not facts at all, yes my mind is made up cause the falsehood is very clear. If you want to prove a point to me it needs to be free from lies and deception. Seeing as you have insisted to continue with this topic let me show you it is incorrect.
The misguided people that have no knowledge claim that Allah prays and they use the following verse along with others to suggest such a thing:
33.43
"He it is Who sends blessings on you, as do His angels, that He may bring you out from the depths of Darkness into Light: and He is Full of Mercy to the Believers."
Such people claim that the translations are wrongly translated putting the word blessing rather than putting the word praying or prayer, since in Arabic the text says salawatun, yusallee and yusalloona which mean praying in Arabic not blessing, while blessing in Arabic is called baraka.
Hence from this they conclude that Allah prays, and the translations are wrong, and they ask the Muslim's who does Allah pray to?
Such people need to do their homework if they had only consulted the tafsir this argument would be easily refuted.
So to refute this claim one must only look at the tafsir of Ibn Kathir in regards to Surah 33:56 which will refute the entire argument:
The Meaning of Salah
Allah's Salah means that He praises His servant before the angels, as Al-Bukhari recorded from Abu Al-Aliyah. This was recorded by Abu Jafar Ar-Razi from Ar-Rabi bin Anas from Anas. Others said: "Allah's Salah means mercy.'' It may be said that there is no contradiction between these two views. And Allah knows best. Salah from the angels means their supplication and seeking forgiveness for people, as Allah says:
QURAN: 40:7-9
"Those who bear the Throne and those around it glorify the praises of their Lord, and believe in Him, and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): "Our Lord! You comprehend all things in mercy and knowledge, so forgive those who repent and follow Your way, and save them from the torment of the blazing Fire! Our Lord! And make them enter the Adn Garden which you have promised them -- and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their offspring! Verily, You are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise. And save them from the sins"
"that He may bring you out from darkness into light" - means, by means of His mercy towards you, His praise of you and the supplication of His angels for you, He brings you forth from the darkness of ignorance and misguidance into the light of guidance and certain faith.
Therefore Allah's Salah (prayer) does not mean prayer, rather it is him praising his servants before the angels, and also sending down his mercy upon them. So the translations are not wrong in putting the word blessing, because if Allah praises you among his angels and sends his mercy down to you than that is indeed a blessing. Now some might say but doesnt Salah mean praying? Yes, it does, however so, when the term is applied to God the term does not mean prayer rather it means sending mercy and praising, when the term is applied on a normal human, it refers to prayer, but not when refered to Allah
One Sheikh even writes:
This is well known among the scholars, but the correct view is something different, because blessing (salaah) is more specific than mercy. Hence the Muslims are unanimously agreed that it is permissible to pray for mercy for every believer, but they differed as to whether we may pray for blessings (using this specific word of salaah or salli ala) for anyone other than the Prophets. If the word salaah here is taken to mean mercy, then there is no difference between them, and just as we pray for mercy for a person we may send blessings upon them.
Moreover it becomes crystal clear that Allah does not pray, and that the haters of Islam intentionally distort the meaning of Allah's Salah lying to the Muslims claiming it means praying, when in fact the term Salah when used for Allah does not mean praying rather it means sending down mercy and praising his servant.
I think this question needs to be directed at the Christians as they have no good response when asked why their god Jesus prayed, and why God would need to pray. Lol
Jesus' talked to his father because He had a relationship with him before the worlds were created, and prayed to teach us how to do it.
Post #515
Burninglight
QUOTE: "It makes prefect sense and it is clear as crystal. When Allah deceives it is not deception; when he prays it is not prayer. When Allah sends down his spirit apart from himself, it is not his partner, and when Muslim recite the shahadah, saying "...and Muhammad is his apostle" that is not an association with Allah. It all makes perfect sense lol
Jesus' talked to his father because He had a relationship with him before the worlds were created, and prayed to teach us how to do it"
ANSWER: Who said Allah doesn't deceive?? Allah deceived his enemies into thinking they killed Jesus (peace be upon him), Allah is all powerful and is always one step ahead of his enemies. The true deception is that of Christians and Paul who went and made up stories that Jesus (peace be upon him) rose from the dead, and died for our sins, that is the true deception. There would have been no sin on Christians at the time who mourned for Jesus (peace be upon him) and believed he had died, the sin is when they started making things up. You are trying to compare God to human traits, you simply cannot do this. When Allah sends down His spirit?? You have still failed to explain how the shahada is associating partners with God.
So Jesus (peace be upon him) existed before the world was created? So in what form was he?? Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to God here on earth, so was he praying to himself as God is incarnate??
QUOTE: "It makes prefect sense and it is clear as crystal. When Allah deceives it is not deception; when he prays it is not prayer. When Allah sends down his spirit apart from himself, it is not his partner, and when Muslim recite the shahadah, saying "...and Muhammad is his apostle" that is not an association with Allah. It all makes perfect sense lol
Jesus' talked to his father because He had a relationship with him before the worlds were created, and prayed to teach us how to do it"
ANSWER: Who said Allah doesn't deceive?? Allah deceived his enemies into thinking they killed Jesus (peace be upon him), Allah is all powerful and is always one step ahead of his enemies. The true deception is that of Christians and Paul who went and made up stories that Jesus (peace be upon him) rose from the dead, and died for our sins, that is the true deception. There would have been no sin on Christians at the time who mourned for Jesus (peace be upon him) and believed he had died, the sin is when they started making things up. You are trying to compare God to human traits, you simply cannot do this. When Allah sends down His spirit?? You have still failed to explain how the shahada is associating partners with God.
So Jesus (peace be upon him) existed before the world was created? So in what form was he?? Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to God here on earth, so was he praying to himself as God is incarnate??
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Burninglight
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Jesus is my Lord
Post #516HaLi8993 wrote: Burninglight
QUOTE: "It makes prefect sense and it is clear as crystal. When Allah deceives it is not deception; when he prays it is not prayer. When Allah sends down his spirit apart from himself, it is not his partner, and when Muslim recite the shahadah, saying "...and Muhammad is his apostle" that is not an association with Allah. It all makes perfect sense lol
Jesus' talked to his father because He had a relationship with him before the worlds were created, and prayed to teach us how to do it"Thank you for being the first Muslim to admit this about Allah's deception. Now the shahadah is an association in the sense that in order to be a Muslim or have the hope of paradise, you must mention the name of Muhammad. You say something to the effect: "I swear there is no God but allah and Muhammad is his prophet." i know you don't see Muhammad as co equal with Allah, but you do see him as Allah's slave or prophet /apostle. Anytime one says "I believe in and I believe that" that conjunction "and" joins the two in an association. Like Sanford "and" Son. It is an association and/ or partnership although one doesn't have as high as an office as the other. You can't say, "I believe in Allah, and that he is the god and no other" and leave it at that. So Muslims getting on Paul's case is hypocritical and dangerous. In fact, Many Muslims are split over this association in the second part of the shahadah!!!HaLi8993 wrote:
ANSWER: Who said Allah doesn't deceive?? Allah deceived his enemies into thinking they killed Jesus (peace be upon him), Allah is all powerful and is always one step ahead of his enemies. The true deception is that of Christians and Paul who went and made up stories that Jesus (peace be upon him) rose from the dead, and died for our sins, that is the true deception. There would have been no sin on Christians at the time who mourned for Jesus (peace be upon him) and believed he had died, the sin is when they started making things up. You are trying to compare God to human traits, you simply cannot do this. When Allah sends down His spirit?? You have still failed to explain how the shahada is associating partners with God.
Yes, He did as the word of God. He was praying to His father. Remember the Bible states that Jesus is the son. We understand that even Muhammad called Jesus the word of God. Maybe Muhammad didn't understand the implication of that statement. God's word is uncreated and therefore eternal. That means that Jesus is eternal and divine. God allowed His word to be made flesh. That is why the Scriptures state that "He that confesses that Jesus is come in the flesh is of God." Islam does not confess this; therefore, it is not of God. Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Jesus prayed to the father and taught us to pray, but who did Allah pray to?HaLi8993 wrote:
So Jesus (peace be upon him) existed before the world was created? So in what form was he?? Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to God here on earth, so was he praying to himself as God is incarnate??
What relationship did Allah have with his spirit that he sent down with Gabriel. Why did Allah deceive to protect Jesus? Didn't Allah know that he would make Jesus a liar by doing this. Jesus predicted His death three times, and it didn't happen? Didn't Allah know that his deception would give birth to the largest religion in the world? Christanity is Allah's fault not Paul's. Allah allowed the Jews, disciples and apostles believe that Jesus died.
Allah has let so many people die just to save Jesus. Look at all the religious wars and all those that gave up their lives to preach Christ crucified. Allah's deception cannot be trusted. Even Abu Bakr said "I couldn't trust the Makr (Deception) of Allah if I have one foot in paradise and one on earth. No one is safe from the Makr of Allah.
Christians don't have this trust problem. God has sealed us and has filled us with His holy Spirit as an earnest that we will be with Him forever. Jesus said, father I have lost none of those you have given me. God is changing me and conforming me to the image of His son. No one can be pleasing to God without the indwelling Christ in their heart. Before Christ they had shadows and types like the Passover and the lamb's blood saved the Children of Israel. You need Jesus' blood my sister or Allah will deceive you and make you fuel for hell.
Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell.
:
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Please, pray and ask God to show you how you should see Jesus. Allah will trick you in the end if you don't accept the Son of God as your Lord and Savior like he did the masses through the fabric of time and to date. It is not too late. You are still living.
It is too late for Amhed Deedat who blasphemed this message I shared with you now. Look at him in the video:
You can see Deedat is fuel for the fire; It doesn't just happen to silly women; it happens to foolish men as well. Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye!
Post #517
Burninglight
QUOTE: "Thank you for being the first Muslim to admit this about Allah's deception. Now the shahadah is an association in the sense that in order to be a Muslim or have the hope of paradise, you must mention the name of Muhammad. You say something to the effect: "I swear there is no God but allah and Muhammad is his prophet." i know you don't see Muhammad as co equal with Allah, but you do see him as Allah's slave or prophet /apostle. Anytime one says "I believe in and I believe that" that conjunction "and" joins the two in an association. Like Sanford "and" Son. It is an association and/ or partnership although one doesn't have as high as an office as the other. You can't say, "I believe in Allah, and that he is the god and no other" and leave it at that. So Muslims getting on Paul's case is hypocritical and dangerous. In fact, Many Muslims are split over this association in the second part of the shahadah!!!"
ANSWER: Allah's ability to deceive does not mean the religion of Islam is deceptive. The shahada means:
I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah.
Are you looking at the context of the shahada or are you making up your own analogies, why can't we believe that there is only One God and no other? Who said that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "John and his dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly not!
QUOTE: "Yes, He did as the word of God. He was praying to His father. Remember the Bible states that Jesus is the son. We understand that even Muhammad called Jesus the word of God. Maybe Muhammad didn't understand the implication of that statement. God's word is uncreated and therefore eternal. That means that Jesus is eternal and divine. God allowed His word to be made flesh. That is why the Scriptures state that "He that confesses that Jesus is come in the flesh is of God." Islam does not confess this; therefore, it is not of God. Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Jesus prayed to the father and taught us to pray, but who did Allah pray to?"
ANSWER: You seem to think the word of God means God's son this is something I'm finding hard to fathom. How do you come to that conclusion?? Muhammad (peace be upon him) spoke the words of God also as well as all the Prophets and Messengers that came to proclaim God's religion, this does not make them the son of God. Your avoiding my question why would Jesus (peace be upon him) need to pray to himself when the belief in Christianity is that God is incarnate?? It also seems as though you have not read my post because you are insisting that God prayed like a human.
QUOTE: "What relationship did Allah have with his spirit that he sent down with Gabriel. Why did Allah deceive to protect Jesus? Didn't Allah know that he would make Jesus a liar by doing this. Jesus predicted His death three times, and it didn't happen? Didn't Allah know that his deception would give birth to the largest religion in the world? Christanity is Allah's fault not Paul's. Allah allowed the Jews, disciples and apostles believe that Jesus died"
ANSWER: What spirit are you talking about??
Allah deceives or schemes on his enemies and the enemies of His Prophets in order to derail their evil plans. Allah is helping his prophets, Allah does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does. Allah just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims. Would you have liked to see Jesus (peace be upon him) crucified?? I don't understand how protecting someone from murder would make that person a liar??
Where is your evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) predicted his death? Allah is All-Knowing, so yes he would have known that people would have fell into misguidance as Christians today have, this is why the Quran tells us what really happened confirming the truth found in previous scriptures and warning us against the misguidance and falsehood in beliefs such as the trinity concept today.
People choose their own destiny. Allah revealed the original Torah and Injeel, do Christians follow this now?? All we have today is the bible written by Paul which has been changed and corrupted which is the current day Christianity. This is not what Allah commanded, this is what man has distorted from the true teachings of God, that is Paul's fault as he has misguided many due to his actions.
QUOTE: "Allah has let so many people die just to save Jesus. Look at all the religious wars and all those that gave up their lives to preach Christ crucified. Allah's deception cannot be trusted. Even Abu Bakr said "I couldn't trust the Makr (Deception) of Allah if I have one foot in paradise and one on earth. No one is safe from the Makr of Allah"
ANSWER: You have answered your own question "giving up your life". What reliable authentic Hadith did you get this from, can you give me the Hadith where Abu Bakr says this, thanks.
QUOTE: "Christians don't have this trust problem. God has sealed us and has filled us with His holy Spirit as an earnest that we will be with Him forever. Jesus said, father I have lost none of those you have given me. God is changing me and conforming me to the image of His son. No one can be pleasing to God without the indwelling Christ in their heart. Before Christ they had shadows and types like the Passover and the lamb's blood saved the Children of Israel. You need Jesus' blood my sister or Allah will deceive you and make you fuel for hell"
ANSWER: We have complete trust in Allah, as He does not deceive his true sincere followers to cause harm. By submitting to His commands we have placed our trust in Him hence pleasing him. He loves those who do so:
"Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)." (3:159).
Where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say such things?? Believing that he died for our sins is not what will get you Paradise believing in his Message and what he came with will.
QUOTE: "Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell"
ANSWER: If this Hadith said that Men were the majority instead of women, you would most likely still have a problem with this lol, the fact that women are the majority of hell is not offensive. Considering the ratio of women to men here on planet earth being larger, then it is only logical that the ratio of women to men in hell would also be larger.
QUOTE: "Please, pray and ask God to show you how you should see Jesus. Allah will trick you in the end if you don't accept the Son of God as your Lord and Savior like he did the masses through the fabric of time and to date. It is not too late. You are still living"
ANSWER: God is the Only One that knows about Jesus (peace be upon him) hence He is the One that has told us about him in the Quran. No offense Burninglight but it is Satan that has tricked you in believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) is Gods son and savior. Islam is the way to paradise.
QUOTE: "It is too late for Amhed Deedat who blasphemed this message I shared with you now. Look at him in the video:
You can see Deedat is fuel for the fire; It doesn't just happen to silly women; it happens to foolish men as well. Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye!
ANSWER: Why do you hate Ahmed Deedat so much Burniglight, is it because he spoke the truth?? only God All-Mighty knows the fate of Ahmed not you and I. With your logic that would mean we can say that GOD All-Mighty pours His Wrath on every person that is paralyzed?
It is clear that Christians felt threatened by the truth that Ahmed revealed, Deedat was a active member in exposing the lies, falsehood, and man's alteration of the bible. Furthermore I sense a little bit of hypocrisy on your part as the only thing I find to be blasphemy is the fact that you have given yourself the right to speak on behalf of GOD Almighty and that you assume that this is what GOD Almighty did.
QUOTE: "Thank you for being the first Muslim to admit this about Allah's deception. Now the shahadah is an association in the sense that in order to be a Muslim or have the hope of paradise, you must mention the name of Muhammad. You say something to the effect: "I swear there is no God but allah and Muhammad is his prophet." i know you don't see Muhammad as co equal with Allah, but you do see him as Allah's slave or prophet /apostle. Anytime one says "I believe in and I believe that" that conjunction "and" joins the two in an association. Like Sanford "and" Son. It is an association and/ or partnership although one doesn't have as high as an office as the other. You can't say, "I believe in Allah, and that he is the god and no other" and leave it at that. So Muslims getting on Paul's case is hypocritical and dangerous. In fact, Many Muslims are split over this association in the second part of the shahadah!!!"
ANSWER: Allah's ability to deceive does not mean the religion of Islam is deceptive. The shahada means:
I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah.
Are you looking at the context of the shahada or are you making up your own analogies, why can't we believe that there is only One God and no other? Who said that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "John and his dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly not!
QUOTE: "Yes, He did as the word of God. He was praying to His father. Remember the Bible states that Jesus is the son. We understand that even Muhammad called Jesus the word of God. Maybe Muhammad didn't understand the implication of that statement. God's word is uncreated and therefore eternal. That means that Jesus is eternal and divine. God allowed His word to be made flesh. That is why the Scriptures state that "He that confesses that Jesus is come in the flesh is of God." Islam does not confess this; therefore, it is not of God. Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Jesus prayed to the father and taught us to pray, but who did Allah pray to?"
ANSWER: You seem to think the word of God means God's son this is something I'm finding hard to fathom. How do you come to that conclusion?? Muhammad (peace be upon him) spoke the words of God also as well as all the Prophets and Messengers that came to proclaim God's religion, this does not make them the son of God. Your avoiding my question why would Jesus (peace be upon him) need to pray to himself when the belief in Christianity is that God is incarnate?? It also seems as though you have not read my post because you are insisting that God prayed like a human.
QUOTE: "What relationship did Allah have with his spirit that he sent down with Gabriel. Why did Allah deceive to protect Jesus? Didn't Allah know that he would make Jesus a liar by doing this. Jesus predicted His death three times, and it didn't happen? Didn't Allah know that his deception would give birth to the largest religion in the world? Christanity is Allah's fault not Paul's. Allah allowed the Jews, disciples and apostles believe that Jesus died"
ANSWER: What spirit are you talking about??
Allah deceives or schemes on his enemies and the enemies of His Prophets in order to derail their evil plans. Allah is helping his prophets, Allah does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does. Allah just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims. Would you have liked to see Jesus (peace be upon him) crucified?? I don't understand how protecting someone from murder would make that person a liar??
Where is your evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) predicted his death? Allah is All-Knowing, so yes he would have known that people would have fell into misguidance as Christians today have, this is why the Quran tells us what really happened confirming the truth found in previous scriptures and warning us against the misguidance and falsehood in beliefs such as the trinity concept today.
People choose their own destiny. Allah revealed the original Torah and Injeel, do Christians follow this now?? All we have today is the bible written by Paul which has been changed and corrupted which is the current day Christianity. This is not what Allah commanded, this is what man has distorted from the true teachings of God, that is Paul's fault as he has misguided many due to his actions.
QUOTE: "Allah has let so many people die just to save Jesus. Look at all the religious wars and all those that gave up their lives to preach Christ crucified. Allah's deception cannot be trusted. Even Abu Bakr said "I couldn't trust the Makr (Deception) of Allah if I have one foot in paradise and one on earth. No one is safe from the Makr of Allah"
ANSWER: You have answered your own question "giving up your life". What reliable authentic Hadith did you get this from, can you give me the Hadith where Abu Bakr says this, thanks.
QUOTE: "Christians don't have this trust problem. God has sealed us and has filled us with His holy Spirit as an earnest that we will be with Him forever. Jesus said, father I have lost none of those you have given me. God is changing me and conforming me to the image of His son. No one can be pleasing to God without the indwelling Christ in their heart. Before Christ they had shadows and types like the Passover and the lamb's blood saved the Children of Israel. You need Jesus' blood my sister or Allah will deceive you and make you fuel for hell"
ANSWER: We have complete trust in Allah, as He does not deceive his true sincere followers to cause harm. By submitting to His commands we have placed our trust in Him hence pleasing him. He loves those who do so:
"Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)." (3:159).
Where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say such things?? Believing that he died for our sins is not what will get you Paradise believing in his Message and what he came with will.
QUOTE: "Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell"
ANSWER: If this Hadith said that Men were the majority instead of women, you would most likely still have a problem with this lol, the fact that women are the majority of hell is not offensive. Considering the ratio of women to men here on planet earth being larger, then it is only logical that the ratio of women to men in hell would also be larger.
QUOTE: "Please, pray and ask God to show you how you should see Jesus. Allah will trick you in the end if you don't accept the Son of God as your Lord and Savior like he did the masses through the fabric of time and to date. It is not too late. You are still living"
ANSWER: God is the Only One that knows about Jesus (peace be upon him) hence He is the One that has told us about him in the Quran. No offense Burninglight but it is Satan that has tricked you in believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) is Gods son and savior. Islam is the way to paradise.
QUOTE: "It is too late for Amhed Deedat who blasphemed this message I shared with you now. Look at him in the video:
You can see Deedat is fuel for the fire; It doesn't just happen to silly women; it happens to foolish men as well. Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye!
ANSWER: Why do you hate Ahmed Deedat so much Burniglight, is it because he spoke the truth?? only God All-Mighty knows the fate of Ahmed not you and I. With your logic that would mean we can say that GOD All-Mighty pours His Wrath on every person that is paralyzed?
It is clear that Christians felt threatened by the truth that Ahmed revealed, Deedat was a active member in exposing the lies, falsehood, and man's alteration of the bible. Furthermore I sense a little bit of hypocrisy on your part as the only thing I find to be blasphemy is the fact that you have given yourself the right to speak on behalf of GOD Almighty and that you assume that this is what GOD Almighty did.
-
Burninglight
- Guru
- Posts: 1202
- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #518
I never hated Deedat. Why do you judge me?HaLi8993 wrote: Burninglight
QUOTE: "Thank you for being the first Muslim to admit this about Allah's deception. Now the shahadah is an association in the sense that in order to be a Muslim or have the hope of paradise, you must mention the name of Muhammad. You say something to the effect: "I swear there is no God but allah and Muhammad is his prophet." i know you don't see Muhammad as co equal with Allah, but you do see him as Allah's slave or prophet /apostle. Anytime one says "I believe in and I believe that" that conjunction "and" joins the two in an association. Like Sanford "and" Son. It is an association and/ or partnership although one doesn't have as high as an office as the other. You can't say, "I believe in Allah, and that he is the god and no other" and leave it at that. So Muslims getting on Paul's case is hypocritical and dangerous. In fact, Many Muslims are split over this association in the second part of the shahadah!!!"ANSWER: Allah's ability to deceive does not mean the religion of Islam is deceptive. The shahada means:
I bear witness that there is no deity (none truly to be worshipped) but, Allah, and I bear witness that Mohammad is the messenger of Allah.
Are you looking at the context of the shahada or are you making up your own analogies, why can't we believe that there is only One God and no other? Who said that by putting Muhammad's name in the shahada means that we are not keeping the religion absolutely to God alone? Putting Muhammad's name in the same sentence as God does not mean they are equal. If I say that "John and his dog were taking a walk in the park." Am I showing equality between the two? If I say that "The employer and his employee are doing a great job running the company." Am I implying that they both have the same authority? Certainly not!
QUOTE: "Yes, He did as the word of God. He was praying to His father. Remember the Bible states that Jesus is the son. We understand that even Muhammad called Jesus the word of God. Maybe Muhammad didn't understand the implication of that statement. God's word is uncreated and therefore eternal. That means that Jesus is eternal and divine. God allowed His word to be made flesh. That is why the Scriptures state that "He that confesses that Jesus is come in the flesh is of God." Islam does not confess this; therefore, it is not of God. Jesus is all that God is but not all there is to God. Jesus prayed to the father and taught us to pray, but who did Allah pray to?"
ANSWER: You seem to think the word of God means God's son this is something I'm finding hard to fathom. How do you come to that conclusion?? Muhammad (peace be upon him) spoke the words of God also as well as all the Prophets and Messengers that came to proclaim God's religion, this does not make them the son of God. Your avoiding my question why would Jesus (peace be upon him) need to pray to himself when the belief in Christianity is that God is incarnate?? It also seems as though you have not read my post because you are insisting that God prayed like a human.
QUOTE: "What relationship did Allah have with his spirit that he sent down with Gabriel. Why did Allah deceive to protect Jesus? Didn't Allah know that he would make Jesus a liar by doing this. Jesus predicted His death three times, and it didn't happen? Didn't Allah know that his deception would give birth to the largest religion in the world? Christanity is Allah's fault not Paul's. Allah allowed the Jews, disciples and apostles believe that Jesus died"
ANSWER: What spirit are you talking about??
Allah deceives or schemes on his enemies and the enemies of His Prophets in order to derail their evil plans. Allah is helping his prophets, Allah does not deceive good people to harm them as Satan does. Allah just plots and plans on his enemies when they plan and plot against him, such as to kill his prophet or harm the Muslims. Would you have liked to see Jesus (peace be upon him) crucified?? I don't understand how protecting someone from murder would make that person a liar??
Where is your evidence that Jesus (peace be upon him) predicted his death? Allah is All-Knowing, so yes he would have known that people would have fell into misguidance as Christians today have, this is why the Quran tells us what really happened confirming the truth found in previous scriptures and warning us against the misguidance and falsehood in beliefs such as the trinity concept today.
People choose their own destiny. Allah revealed the original Torah and Injeel, do Christians follow this now?? All we have today is the bible written by Paul which has been changed and corrupted which is the current day Christianity. This is not what Allah commanded, this is what man has distorted from the true teachings of God, that is Paul's fault as he has misguided many due to his actions.
QUOTE: "Allah has let so many people die just to save Jesus. Look at all the religious wars and all those that gave up their lives to preach Christ crucified. Allah's deception cannot be trusted. Even Abu Bakr said "I couldn't trust the Makr (Deception) of Allah if I have one foot in paradise and one on earth. No one is safe from the Makr of Allah"
ANSWER: You have answered your own question "giving up your life". What reliable authentic Hadith did you get this from, can you give me the Hadith where Abu Bakr says this, thanks.
QUOTE: "Christians don't have this trust problem. God has sealed us and has filled us with His holy Spirit as an earnest that we will be with Him forever. Jesus said, father I have lost none of those you have given me. God is changing me and conforming me to the image of His son. No one can be pleasing to God without the indwelling Christ in their heart. Before Christ they had shadows and types like the Passover and the lamb's blood saved the Children of Israel. You need Jesus' blood my sister or Allah will deceive you and make you fuel for hell"
ANSWER: We have complete trust in Allah, as He does not deceive his true sincere followers to cause harm. By submitting to His commands we have placed our trust in Him hence pleasing him. He loves those who do so:
"Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him)." (3:159).
Where did Jesus (peace be upon him) say such things?? Believing that he died for our sins is not what will get you Paradise believing in his Message and what he came with will.
QUOTE: "Women are the fuel of hell.
Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 1926:
.....He then walked on till he came to the women and preached to them and admonished them, and asked them to give alms, for most of them are the fuel for Hell"
ANSWER: If this Hadith said that Men were the majority instead of women, you would most likely still have a problem with this lol, the fact that women are the majority of hell is not offensive. Considering the ratio of women to men here on planet earth being larger, then it is only logical that the ratio of women to men in hell would also be larger.
QUOTE: "Please, pray and ask God to show you how you should see Jesus. Allah will trick you in the end if you don't accept the Son of God as your Lord and Savior like he did the masses through the fabric of time and to date. It is not too late. You are still living"
ANSWER: God is the Only One that knows about Jesus (peace be upon him) hence He is the One that has told us about him in the Quran. No offense Burninglight but it is Satan that has tricked you in believing that Jesus (peace be upon him) is Gods son and savior. Islam is the way to paradise.
QUOTE: "It is too late for Amhed Deedat who blasphemed this message I shared with you now. Look at him in the video:
You can see Deedat is fuel for the fire; It doesn't just happen to silly women; it happens to foolish men as well. Deedat spent his whole life poking his finger in God's eye!
ANSWER: Why do you hate Ahmed Deedat so much Burniglight, is it because he spoke the truth?? only God All-Mighty knows the fate of Ahmed not you and I. With your logic that would mean we can say that GOD All-Mighty pours His Wrath on every person that is paralyzed?
It is clear that Christians felt threatened by the truth that Ahmed revealed, Deedat was a active member in exposing the lies, falsehood, and man's alteration of the bible. Furthermore I sense a little bit of hypocrisy on your part as the only thing I find to be blasphemy is the fact that you have given yourself the right to speak on behalf of GOD Almighty and that you assume that this is what GOD Almighty did.
So why do Muslims ascribe partners unto God? First of all, Allah prayed for Muhammad who was he praying to? I have proof. Look at Quran 33: 43, 56
In some versions, the Arabic is translated as blessing in English, but that is wrong.
If you look up salah it means prayer and worship. Let me help you. I looked at the best islamic commentary translations source there is online - a commentary by Ibn Kathir. It is not from a pro Christian online site either.
Show me where salah could mean blessing. Besides, it doesn't make sense that God is praying with the angels for Muhammad. Angels could pray for him like the verse states, but who is Allah praying to? Jesus prayed to the father, but the father prayed to no one we know, but Allah prays for Muhammad. Jesus prayed for us, but not the one Jesus prayed to that we know.
The most accurate translations is below and definition of SALAH
Noun
1.
salah - the second pillar of Islam is prayer; a prescribed liturgy performed five times a day (preferably in a mosque) and oriented toward Mecca
salaah, salaat, salat
worship - the activity of worshipping
pillar of Islam - (Islam) one of the five religious obligations accepted by all Muslims
Now let's look at the verse in question:
S 33: (56. Allah sends His Salah on the Prophet, and also His angels (do so). O you who believe! Send your Salah on him, and greet him with Taslim.)
Taslim () is the concluding portion of the Muslim prayer (salah), where one recites "Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu-Allah" ("Peace and blessings of God be unto you") once while facing the right, and once while facing the left.
Plus, Allah sent His Spirit to Mary with Gabriel, Finally, Muslims associate Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah. I didn't say he was equal. You missed the point like always. The point is you must confess the name of Muhammad. It doesn't matter that you don't see him as divine or as co equal with Allah, You see him as Allah's apostle or prophet/ slave, but the conjunction "and" joins the two.
Moreover,, when Allah says "We..." in the Quran. Some Muslims say the we is a royal we for respect, but who does Allah have to respect and who is Allah talking to. "We" means a company. So before you accuse Christians check out your own religion regarding partners.
Christianity is the purest form of monotheism in the world. It is the Quran that has its roots in pagan pre Islamic history. You also don't have the original because Uthman burned them all and even the text he used to recompile it was destroyed. The Quran is the corrupted Book not the Bible!
So like Jesus said before you pick on the speck in a Christian eye, take the beam out of the Muslim one!
I don't hate Ahmed Deedat. If he didn't repent during his time of suffering, he went from the fryer into the fire. I could see he was in the fryer. It is written, "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" or woman!
I could tell you what Deedat was saying, "I was wrong oh my God I blew it big time. don't follow my way; Allah deceived me; Islam was the wrong way; it leads to death; Islam's Allah was the satan impersonating the God. I wish I could speak; I am in torment; I see the bloody trail; I left people full of blasphemy and hatred for Jews and Christians, and it is all lost and dead works...."
I know that if he didn't repent before he drew his last breath, he is in a Christless eternity. His cup was full. After poking his finger in God's eye, He silenced him forever! Look at Deedat closely: then look at a girl's vision of Muhammad:
Post #519
Burninglight
QUOTE: "I never hated Deedat. Why do you judge me?"
ANSWER: I'm not judging you, I'm asking you why you hate Deedat?? but seeing as you have acknowledged you don't hate him that's fantastic, so then why have you accused him of blasphemy and being fuel for the fire???
QUOTE: "So why do Muslims ascribe partners unto God? First of all, Allah prayed for Muhammad who was he praying to? I have proof. Look at Quran 33: 43, 56
In some versions, the Arabic is translated as blessing in English, but that is wrong.
If you look up salah it means prayer and worship. Let me help you. I looked at the best islamic commentary translations source there is online - a commentary by Ibn Kathir. It is not from a pro Christian online site either.
Show me where salah could mean blessing. Besides, it doesn't make sense that God is praying with the angels for Muhammad. Angels could pray for him like the verse states, but who is Allah praying to? Jesus prayed to the father, but the father prayed to no one we know, but Allah prays for Muhammad. Jesus prayed for us, but not the one Jesus prayed to that we know.
The most accurate translations is below and definition of SALAH
Noun
1.
salah - the second pillar of Islam is prayer; a prescribed liturgy performed five times a day (preferably in a mosque) and oriented toward Mecca
salaah, salaat, salat
worship - the activity of worshipping
pillar of Islam - (Islam) one of the five religious obligations accepted by all Muslims
Now let's look at the verse in question:
S 33: (56. Allah sends His Salah on the Prophet, and also His angels (do so). O you who believe! Send your Salah on him, and greet him with Taslim.)
Taslim () is the concluding portion of the Muslim prayer (salah), where one recites "Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu-Allah" ("Peace and blessings of God be unto you") once while facing the right, and once while facing the left.
ANSWER: We don't associate partners with God, you just want to believe we do lol, I have already answered these questions with evidence, in fact its the first post on this page. Are you even reading my posts?? So Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to himself??
QUOTE: "Plus, Allah sent His Spirit to Mary with Gabriel, Finally, Muslims associate Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah. I didn't say he was equal. You missed the point like always. The point is you must confess the name of Muhammad. It doesn't matter that you don't see him as divine or as co equal with Allah, You see him as Allah's apostle or prophet/ slave, but the conjunction "and" joins the two"
ANSWER: What spirit?? You are not explaining yourself, I don't think you understand what associating partners with Allah is. Associating partners with Allah, basically means to set up idols and false deities alongside Allah, granting them equal status to Allah, and to give them actions which are only reserved for God alone, such as worshipping them, making oaths to them, having fear and hope in them, and to sacrifice things in their name. All of this constitutes shirk, an example is the case of Jesus (peace be upon him) people have set him up as a God, and invoke on him and pray to him hence they are guilty of setting up a partner to the true God Allah. So can you show me where Muslims do any of this?? We see Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a Prophet and Messenger not a God as Christians do with Jesus (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: "Moreover,, when Allah says "We..." in the Quran. Some Muslims say the we is a royal we for respect, but who does Allah have to respect and who is Allah talking to. "We" means a company. So before you accuse Christians check out your own religion regarding partners"
ANSWER: lol, This is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. Allah also refers to Himself as a singular (pronoun). But Allah never refers to Himself through the use of the dual otherwise this would suggest A specific number which He is far above.
When "we" (plural) is used it may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say We have decided etc. This is known in English as The Royal We. One person is speaking but the plural is used for respect, hence Allah needs a higher level of respect then anyone else. This is no way indicating pluralistic numbers. This is very clear in the Quran:
QURAN: 2:163
"And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful"
Therefore when Allah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves.
QUOTE: "Christianity is the purest form of monotheism in the world. It is the Quran that has its roots in pagan pre Islamic history. You also don't have the original because Uthman burned them all and even the text he used to recompile it was destroyed. The Quran is the corrupted Book not the Bible!
So like Jesus said before you pick on the speck in a Christian eye, take the beam out of the Muslim one!
I don't hate Ahmed Deedat. If he didn't repent during his time of suffering, he went from the fryer into the fire. I could see he was in the fryer. It is written, "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" or woman!"
ANSWER: So you call three entities in one monotheism?? And the fact that there are no two bibles the same pure. Yes that's what people believed in paganistic beliefs prior to the advent of the Prophet (peace be upon him), if you want to discuss the real pagonistic beliefs of the trinity I would be happy to do so. You keep repeating the same things over and over again hence it requires that the same answers be given. How could the Quran be burnt and lost when it was memorized in the hearts of men. Jesus (peace be upon him) said that did he??lol. You spoke words of blasphemy claiming that Ahmed Deedat "is" the fuel of the fire like you know the future. Who gives you the right to speak on behalf of God?? I think you need to repent for this along with many other things.
QUOTE: "I could tell you what Deedat was saying, "I was wrong oh my God I blew it big time. don't follow my way; Allah deceived me; Islam was the wrong way; it leads to death; Islam's Allah was the satan impersonating the God. I wish I could speak; I am in torment; I see the bloody trail; I left people full of blasphemy and hatred for Jews and Christians, and it is all lost and dead works...."
ANSWER: Lol, where is your evidence Burniglight??
QUOTE: "I know that if he didn't repent before he drew his last breath, he is in a Christless eternity. His cup was full. After poking his finger in God's eye, He silenced him forever! Look at Deedat closely: then look at a girl's vision of Muhammad: "
ANSWER: Are you talking on behalf of God again Birninglight? Another you tube video, do you believe everything you see in your dreams?
QUOTE: "I never hated Deedat. Why do you judge me?"
ANSWER: I'm not judging you, I'm asking you why you hate Deedat?? but seeing as you have acknowledged you don't hate him that's fantastic, so then why have you accused him of blasphemy and being fuel for the fire???
QUOTE: "So why do Muslims ascribe partners unto God? First of all, Allah prayed for Muhammad who was he praying to? I have proof. Look at Quran 33: 43, 56
In some versions, the Arabic is translated as blessing in English, but that is wrong.
If you look up salah it means prayer and worship. Let me help you. I looked at the best islamic commentary translations source there is online - a commentary by Ibn Kathir. It is not from a pro Christian online site either.
Show me where salah could mean blessing. Besides, it doesn't make sense that God is praying with the angels for Muhammad. Angels could pray for him like the verse states, but who is Allah praying to? Jesus prayed to the father, but the father prayed to no one we know, but Allah prays for Muhammad. Jesus prayed for us, but not the one Jesus prayed to that we know.
The most accurate translations is below and definition of SALAH
Noun
1.
salah - the second pillar of Islam is prayer; a prescribed liturgy performed five times a day (preferably in a mosque) and oriented toward Mecca
salaah, salaat, salat
worship - the activity of worshipping
pillar of Islam - (Islam) one of the five religious obligations accepted by all Muslims
Now let's look at the verse in question:
S 33: (56. Allah sends His Salah on the Prophet, and also His angels (do so). O you who believe! Send your Salah on him, and greet him with Taslim.)
Taslim () is the concluding portion of the Muslim prayer (salah), where one recites "Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu-Allah" ("Peace and blessings of God be unto you") once while facing the right, and once while facing the left.
ANSWER: We don't associate partners with God, you just want to believe we do lol, I have already answered these questions with evidence, in fact its the first post on this page. Are you even reading my posts?? So Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to himself??
QUOTE: "Plus, Allah sent His Spirit to Mary with Gabriel, Finally, Muslims associate Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah. I didn't say he was equal. You missed the point like always. The point is you must confess the name of Muhammad. It doesn't matter that you don't see him as divine or as co equal with Allah, You see him as Allah's apostle or prophet/ slave, but the conjunction "and" joins the two"
ANSWER: What spirit?? You are not explaining yourself, I don't think you understand what associating partners with Allah is. Associating partners with Allah, basically means to set up idols and false deities alongside Allah, granting them equal status to Allah, and to give them actions which are only reserved for God alone, such as worshipping them, making oaths to them, having fear and hope in them, and to sacrifice things in their name. All of this constitutes shirk, an example is the case of Jesus (peace be upon him) people have set him up as a God, and invoke on him and pray to him hence they are guilty of setting up a partner to the true God Allah. So can you show me where Muslims do any of this?? We see Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a Prophet and Messenger not a God as Christians do with Jesus (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: "Moreover,, when Allah says "We..." in the Quran. Some Muslims say the we is a royal we for respect, but who does Allah have to respect and who is Allah talking to. "We" means a company. So before you accuse Christians check out your own religion regarding partners"
ANSWER: lol, This is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. Allah also refers to Himself as a singular (pronoun). But Allah never refers to Himself through the use of the dual otherwise this would suggest A specific number which He is far above.
When "we" (plural) is used it may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say We have decided etc. This is known in English as The Royal We. One person is speaking but the plural is used for respect, hence Allah needs a higher level of respect then anyone else. This is no way indicating pluralistic numbers. This is very clear in the Quran:
QURAN: 2:163
"And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful"
Therefore when Allah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves.
QUOTE: "Christianity is the purest form of monotheism in the world. It is the Quran that has its roots in pagan pre Islamic history. You also don't have the original because Uthman burned them all and even the text he used to recompile it was destroyed. The Quran is the corrupted Book not the Bible!
So like Jesus said before you pick on the speck in a Christian eye, take the beam out of the Muslim one!
I don't hate Ahmed Deedat. If he didn't repent during his time of suffering, he went from the fryer into the fire. I could see he was in the fryer. It is written, "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" or woman!"
ANSWER: So you call three entities in one monotheism?? And the fact that there are no two bibles the same pure. Yes that's what people believed in paganistic beliefs prior to the advent of the Prophet (peace be upon him), if you want to discuss the real pagonistic beliefs of the trinity I would be happy to do so. You keep repeating the same things over and over again hence it requires that the same answers be given. How could the Quran be burnt and lost when it was memorized in the hearts of men. Jesus (peace be upon him) said that did he??lol. You spoke words of blasphemy claiming that Ahmed Deedat "is" the fuel of the fire like you know the future. Who gives you the right to speak on behalf of God?? I think you need to repent for this along with many other things.
QUOTE: "I could tell you what Deedat was saying, "I was wrong oh my God I blew it big time. don't follow my way; Allah deceived me; Islam was the wrong way; it leads to death; Islam's Allah was the satan impersonating the God. I wish I could speak; I am in torment; I see the bloody trail; I left people full of blasphemy and hatred for Jews and Christians, and it is all lost and dead works...."
ANSWER: Lol, where is your evidence Burniglight??
QUOTE: "I know that if he didn't repent before he drew his last breath, he is in a Christless eternity. His cup was full. After poking his finger in God's eye, He silenced him forever! Look at Deedat closely: then look at a girl's vision of Muhammad: "
ANSWER: Are you talking on behalf of God again Birninglight? Another you tube video, do you believe everything you see in your dreams?
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Burninglight
- Guru
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Answer
Post #520ANSWER, lol, it is redundant to say "One monotheism." Yes, three persons in the Godhead but one God. It is not three persons like me, you and someone else. It is a wholeness and oneness of God that no man can comprehend.HaLi8993 wrote: Burninglight
QUOTE: "I never hated Deedat. Why do you judge me?"
ANSWER: I'm not judging you, I'm asking you why you hate Deedat?? but seeing as you have acknowledged you don't hate him that's fantastic, so then why have you accused him of blasphemy and being fuel for the fire???
QUOTE: "So why do Muslims ascribe partners unto God? First of all, Allah prayed for Muhammad who was he praying to? I have proof. Look at Quran 33: 43, 56
In some versions, the Arabic is translated as blessing in English, but that is wrong.
If you look up salah it means prayer and worship. Let me help you. I looked at the best islamic commentary translations source there is online - a commentary by Ibn Kathir. It is not from a pro Christian online site either.
Show me where salah could mean blessing. Besides, it doesn't make sense that God is praying with the angels for Muhammad. Angels could pray for him like the verse states, but who is Allah praying to? Jesus prayed to the father, but the father prayed to no one we know, but Allah prays for Muhammad. Jesus prayed for us, but not the one Jesus prayed to that we know.
The most accurate translations is below and definition of SALAH
Noun
1.
salah - the second pillar of Islam is prayer; a prescribed liturgy performed five times a day (preferably in a mosque) and oriented toward Mecca
salaah, salaat, salat
worship - the activity of worshipping
pillar of Islam - (Islam) one of the five religious obligations accepted by all Muslims
Now let's look at the verse in question:
S 33: (56. Allah sends His Salah on the Prophet, and also His angels (do so). O you who believe! Send your Salah on him, and greet him with Taslim.)
Taslim () is the concluding portion of the Muslim prayer (salah), where one recites "Assalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatu-Allah" ("Peace and blessings of God be unto you") once while facing the right, and once while facing the left.
ANSWER: We don't associate partners with God, you just want to believe we do lol, I have already answered these questions with evidence, in fact its the first post on this page. Are you even reading my posts?? So Jesus (peace be upon him) prayed to himself??
QUOTE: "Plus, Allah sent His Spirit to Mary with Gabriel, Finally, Muslims associate Muhammad with Allah in the second part of the shahadah. I didn't say he was equal. You missed the point like always. The point is you must confess the name of Muhammad. It doesn't matter that you don't see him as divine or as co equal with Allah, You see him as Allah's apostle or prophet/ slave, but the conjunction "and" joins the two"
ANSWER: What spirit?? You are not explaining yourself, I don't think you understand what associating partners with Allah is. Associating partners with Allah, basically means to set up idols and false deities alongside Allah, granting them equal status to Allah, and to give them actions which are only reserved for God alone, such as worshipping them, making oaths to them, having fear and hope in them, and to sacrifice things in their name. All of this constitutes shirk, an example is the case of Jesus (peace be upon him) people have set him up as a God, and invoke on him and pray to him hence they are guilty of setting up a partner to the true God Allah. So can you show me where Muslims do any of this?? We see Muhammad (peace be upon him) as a Prophet and Messenger not a God as Christians do with Jesus (peace be upon him).
QUOTE: "Moreover,, when Allah says "We..." in the Quran. Some Muslims say the we is a royal we for respect, but who does Allah have to respect and who is Allah talking to. "We" means a company. So before you accuse Christians check out your own religion regarding partners"
ANSWER: lol, This is a feature of literary style in Arabic that a person may refer to himself by the pronoun nahnu (we) for respect or glorification. Allah also refers to Himself as a singular (pronoun). But Allah never refers to Himself through the use of the dual otherwise this would suggest A specific number which He is far above.
When "we" (plural) is used it may be used by one person speaking on behalf of a group, or they may be used by one person for purposes of respect or glorification, as is done by some monarchs when they issue statements or decrees in which they say We have decided etc. This is known in English as The Royal We. One person is speaking but the plural is used for respect, hence Allah needs a higher level of respect then anyone else. This is no way indicating pluralistic numbers. This is very clear in the Quran:
QURAN: 2:163
"And your god is One God, there is none who has the right to be worshipped but He, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful"
Therefore when Allah uses the plural to refer to Himself, it is based on the respect and honour that He deserves.
QUOTE: "Christianity is the purest form of monotheism in the world. It is the Quran that has its roots in pagan pre Islamic history. You also don't have the original because Uthman burned them all and even the text he used to recompile it was destroyed. The Quran is the corrupted Book not the Bible!
So like Jesus said before you pick on the speck in a Christian eye, take the beam out of the Muslim one!
I don't hate Ahmed Deedat. If he didn't repent during his time of suffering, he went from the fryer into the fire. I could see he was in the fryer. It is written, "The spiritual man judges all things yet he is judged of no man" or woman!"
ANSWER: So you call three entities in one monotheism?? And the fact that there are no two bibles the same pure. Yes that's what people believed in paganistic beliefs prior to the advent of the Prophet (peace be upon him), if you want to discuss the real pagonistic beliefs of the trinity I would be happy to do so. You keep repeating the same things over and over again hence it requires that the same answers be given. How could the Quran be burnt and lost when it was memorized in the hearts of men. Jesus (peace be upon him) said that did he??lol. You spoke words of blasphemy claiming that Ahmed Deedat "is" the fuel of the fire like you know the future. Who gives you the right to speak on behalf of God?? I think you need to repent for this along with many other things.
Many, Muslims ascribe a partner unto Allah. I know exactly what you me by partner, association, but that is what is being done when you have to confess the name of Muhammad. You're saying I believe in his prophet, apostle slave or whatever you want to call him. It makes no difference. YOU ARE CARRYING A DOUBLE STANDARD. You have to associate his name with Allah using a conjunction "'And' his prophet Muhammad" Besides, isn't it written somewhere that "To obey Muhammad is to obey Allah?"
I rest my case and the point is made and has been made. Finally, there are Muslims that see the second part of the shahadah as an association and they, although still misguided, have become Quranist only Muslims. They just don't say the second part of the shahadah, bc they don't want to commit shirk.
I don't have to repent of what God shows me about Deedat or anything else you say. I don't know if Deedat is in hell, but I know he was experiencing it before he died. He may have repented in His heart just before he died. Hopefully he did.
Muhammad and Allah confirm that Jesus is "the word of Allah (God)" Therefore, He is eternal and not created even as Allah's word is eternal and uncreated, and you will face Him (The word made flesh) soon and account for why you neglected His direction. If you don't repent, He will ask why didn't you listen to my witness on youtube? and there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Quran 3:7 tells you that those who have deviated from truth will use the verse that states Jesus is the word of God to trouble you, also that the verse is unclear and Allah knows its meaning, but I know better about that verse. Quran 3: 7 is like the Wizard of Oz who said to Dorothy, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain." That man was Muhammad.
Muslims get on our case about believing Jesus is deity, but they cannot tell us what Jesus being the word means or that Jesus is not deity, because Allah knows He is. He is just deceiving you like he did to billions by tricking, plotting and scheming people into believing Jesus died when he didn't. But Allah's subtly of deception was missed by all Muslims. His great and BEST deception is that he wanted you to believe Jesus didn't die so you could have a Christless eternity away from the one and only true God who loves you.
Ro. 10: 9 [e]that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, [f]resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, [g]resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, Whoever believes in Him will not be [h]disappointed. 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.
