Allah made it look like Jesus died, but he let someone die in Jesus' place to save Jesus according to the Quran. Isn't that a form of substitutionary death? This is something some Muslims tell me God doesn't do; so, I am confused about this.
The Quran states that the unbelievers plot and scheme with deception but Allah is the "best of deceivers" Some English translations state "the best of planners," in context, however, Allah does best what the unbelievers were doing which was deceiving; so, is Allah to blame for starting Christianity or did he know his deception would cause the birth of a religion that Islam could not comprehend or overcome? For instance, Christianity, IMO, has always been bigger, better and stronger than Islam and always will be!
Did Allah start Christianty?
Moderator: Moderators
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Burninglight
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Post #61
Wyvern
QUOTE: "Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other images"
ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
In the 5-daily prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising God, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide who are doing it almost simultaneously as though they are one community.
QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
QUOTE: "Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other images"
ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
In the 5-daily prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising God, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide who are doing it almost simultaneously as though they are one community.
QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
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Burninglight
- Guru
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Post #62
True Bibilcal Christians don't worship statues of Jesus. This is a misconception Muslims have of Christianity.HaLi8993 wrote: Wyvern
QUOTE: "Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other images"
ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
In the 5-daily prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising God, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide who are doing it almost simultaneously as though they are one community.
QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
Post #63
Stop using your version of what comprises god for other religions, to christians jesus is part of a triune god so for them directing worship to jesus IS worshipping god. You are mistaken, worshipping statues is wrong in both religions, thankfully this is not happening unless you want to admit muslims worship the kabah.ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
So you are using the kabah as a prayer focus just as christians do with a cross. Would islam disappear if there was no kabah? If not why do you think such is true about crosses?QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
And in doing so you direct your worship to a rock, in effect you are worshipping this rock.QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
Christians can address their prayer to any part of the triune god and it is still being made to god.QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
Amazing how you can not admit that the possibility of something is not the same as the actual thing in question. It is possible that you will die in the next minute so should we consider you dead right now?QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
Post #64
Then what are those statues of some dude on the cross in every church?Burninglight wrote:True Bibilcal Christians don't worship statues of Jesus. This is a misconception Muslims have of Christianity.HaLi8993 wrote: Wyvern
QUOTE: "Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other images"
ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
In the 5-daily prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising God, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide who are doing it almost simultaneously as though they are one community.
QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
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Burninglight
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Post #65
Them there statues you see are idols that pertain to Catholicism not true Biblical Christianity. This is one of the misconceptions of Christianity. We Christians have nothing to do with that idol worship. it is against the Bible too.Ankhhape wrote:Then what are those statues of some dude on the cross in every church?Burninglight wrote:True Bibilcal Christians don't worship statues of Jesus. This is a misconception Muslims have of Christianity.HaLi8993 wrote: Wyvern
QUOTE: "Muslims also create images look at al jazeera. Christians do not nor have they ever revered anything in place of their god, where did you hear this? Pretty much every culture but that of islam has a fine tradition of producing statuary along with other images"
ANSWER: Al-Jazeera, you mean the news?? Don't Christians revere Jesus (peace be upon him) instead of God?? Why are there statues and images in churches when this goes against the teachings of the bible?
QUOTE: "What kind of petty god would care which direction you face to pray?"
ANSWER: The direction of the Kabah not only unifies the Muslims, but it also maximizes the Glorification and Praising of God Almighty.
In the 5-daily prayers, it is not only the individual who is Praising God, but also the millions of the Muslims world-wide who are doing it almost simultaneously as though they are one community.
QUOTE: " Yes exactly, in essence you are worshipping islam itself by facing the direction of its founding"
ANSWER: No, we are worshipping God by following Islam. God commands us to face this direction for a reason.
QUOTE: "Millions of christian children every night can demonstrate that they have no need of an object in order to worship. Who are these people that only worship an object that you are talking about?"
ANSWER: Millions of children are calling upon Jesus (peace be upon him) as Christ, isn't this worship?? Isn't this idol worship? Statues and images of Jesus, Mary, Saints, Cross' in Church.
QUOTE: "Requesting freedom is not the same as being free. That would be like saying a picture of a car is the same as driving a car"
ANSWER: It is not possible to drive a picture but it is highly possible to be set free.
Post #66
Wow, does that wreak of the same thing Islam does . . . interpretation as needed.Them there statues you see are idols that pertain to Catholicism not true Biblical Christianity. This is one of the misconceptions of Christianity. We Christians have nothing to do with that idol worship. it is against the Bible too.
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Burninglight
- Guru
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- Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 12:40 am
Post #67
Christianity does have some things in common with Islam, but too few and far between!Ankhhape wrote:Wow, does that wreak of the same thing Islam does . . . interpretation as needed.Them there statues you see are idols that pertain to Catholicism not true Biblical Christianity. This is one of the misconceptions of Christianity. We Christians have nothing to do with that idol worship. it is against the Bible too.
Since Muslim means one who submits to God, I can call myself a Muslim that rejects Muhammad and Islam!
Post #68
Wyvern,
QUOTE: "Stop using your version of what comprises god for other religions, to christians jesus is part of a triune god so for them directing worship to jesus IS worshipping god. You are mistaken, worshipping statues is wrong in both religions, thankfully this is not happening unless you want to admit muslims worship the kabah"
ANSWER: This doesn't explain the widespread use of statues and images in churches, what is the reason for this? So you mean to say, God is incarnate of Jesus (peace be upon him) so if you worship Jesus (peace be upon him) its in return worshipping God?? But isn't this associating partners with God?? The early Christians rejected the concept of Trinity as did Jesus (peace be upon him). This is a innovation that made it's way into your scriptures through the permission of the dominate Christian figures of the church. Not once is the word "trinity" present in the bible nor was it the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him). There are numerous verses in the old testament in relation to the absolute oneness of God proving that Jesus in not God.
QUOTE: "So you are using the kabah as a prayer focus just as christians do with a cross. Would islam disappear if there was no kabah? If not why do you think such is true about crosses"
ANSWER: We are commanded to face the direction of Mecca with supporting evidence, however what evidence do the Christians have to use the cross as a prayer focus?? Can we both agree that for something to be performed as an act of worship it would need to have supportive evidence from the scripture. That particular act of worship would not be performed, not Christianity, however if the Kabah wasn't there we wouldn't stop praying.
QUOTE: "And in doing so you direct your worship to a rock, in effect you are worshipping this rock"
ANSWER: No, we are not directing our worship to a rock. If the kabah was not existent we would still be facing the same direction. So how would this be the worship of a rock?? If we were in fact worshipping a rock then this would mean it would be an essential part of the prayer, furthermore it would nullify the prayer all together if it were inexistent, however this isn't the case.
QUOTE: "Christians can address their prayer to any part of the triune god and it is still being made to god"
ANSWER: Can you provide evidence where this is permitted in the bible.
QUOTE: "Amazing how you can not admit that the possibility of something is not the same as the actual thing in question. It is possible that you will die in the next minute so should we consider you dead right now?"
ANSWER: Amazingly, how you fail to realize that the possibility of something happening is highly possible, I can die in the next minute but it is also possible I won't so can we say that I am dead now?
QUOTE: "Stop using your version of what comprises god for other religions, to christians jesus is part of a triune god so for them directing worship to jesus IS worshipping god. You are mistaken, worshipping statues is wrong in both religions, thankfully this is not happening unless you want to admit muslims worship the kabah"
ANSWER: This doesn't explain the widespread use of statues and images in churches, what is the reason for this? So you mean to say, God is incarnate of Jesus (peace be upon him) so if you worship Jesus (peace be upon him) its in return worshipping God?? But isn't this associating partners with God?? The early Christians rejected the concept of Trinity as did Jesus (peace be upon him). This is a innovation that made it's way into your scriptures through the permission of the dominate Christian figures of the church. Not once is the word "trinity" present in the bible nor was it the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him). There are numerous verses in the old testament in relation to the absolute oneness of God proving that Jesus in not God.
QUOTE: "So you are using the kabah as a prayer focus just as christians do with a cross. Would islam disappear if there was no kabah? If not why do you think such is true about crosses"
ANSWER: We are commanded to face the direction of Mecca with supporting evidence, however what evidence do the Christians have to use the cross as a prayer focus?? Can we both agree that for something to be performed as an act of worship it would need to have supportive evidence from the scripture. That particular act of worship would not be performed, not Christianity, however if the Kabah wasn't there we wouldn't stop praying.
QUOTE: "And in doing so you direct your worship to a rock, in effect you are worshipping this rock"
ANSWER: No, we are not directing our worship to a rock. If the kabah was not existent we would still be facing the same direction. So how would this be the worship of a rock?? If we were in fact worshipping a rock then this would mean it would be an essential part of the prayer, furthermore it would nullify the prayer all together if it were inexistent, however this isn't the case.
QUOTE: "Christians can address their prayer to any part of the triune god and it is still being made to god"
ANSWER: Can you provide evidence where this is permitted in the bible.
QUOTE: "Amazing how you can not admit that the possibility of something is not the same as the actual thing in question. It is possible that you will die in the next minute so should we consider you dead right now?"
ANSWER: Amazingly, how you fail to realize that the possibility of something happening is highly possible, I can die in the next minute but it is also possible I won't so can we say that I am dead now?
Post #70
Decoration, the same reason why many mosques are decorated in so many abstract designs. Is it my fault that islam took the prohibition of images further than intended?ANSWER: This doesn't explain the widespread use of statues and images in churches, what is the reason for this?
Yes god is one entity with three aspects according to christianity. How many names are given to your god to denote its various aspects? It's not that hard to understand according to christianity jesus was not a prophet he is in fact god itself, not a partner not a stand in for god but god itself. If you are knowledgeable of hinduism consider jesus as an avatar of god.So you mean to say, God is incarnate of Jesus (peace be upon him) so if you worship Jesus (peace be upon him) its in return worshipping God?? But isn't this associating partners with God?? The early Christians rejected the concept of Trinity as did Jesus (peace be upon him). This is a innovation that made it's way into your scriptures through the permission of the dominate Christian figures of the church. Not once is the word "trinity" present in the bible nor was it the teachings of Jesus (peace be upon him). There are numerous verses in the old testament in relation to the absolute oneness of God proving that Jesus in not God.
If a cross is not there christians dont stop praying either so what's your point? You are mistaken in this idea to put it simply and are using your religions standards and understandings and of course misunderstandings to color what you write instead of taking things as they are without any preconceptions.QUOTE: "So you are using the kabah as a prayer focus just as christians do with a cross. Would islam disappear if there was no kabah? If not why do you think such is true about crosses"
ANSWER: We are commanded to face the direction of Mecca with supporting evidence, however what evidence do the Christians have to use the cross as a prayer focus?? Can we both agree that for something to be performed as an act of worship it would need to have supportive evidence from the scripture. That particular act of worship would not be performed, not Christianity, however if the Kabah wasn't there we wouldn't stop praying.
Replace the word rock with cross and you have your answer in your own words to this question.QUOTE: "And in doing so you direct your worship to a rock, in effect you are worshipping this rock"
ANSWER: No, we are not directing our worship to a rock. If the kabah was not existent we would still be facing the same direction. So how would this be the worship of a rock?? If we were in fact worshipping a rock then this would mean it would be an essential part of the prayer, furthermore it would nullify the prayer all together if it were inexistent, however this isn't the case.
You think it is not allowed in christianity to pray to god? Just because you have a hard time understanding that every aspect of god is still god. How many titles does allah have to describe its own aspects?QUOTE: "Christians can address their prayer to any part of the triune god and it is still being made to god"
ANSWER: Can you provide evidence where this is permitted in the bible.
According to your reasoning yes we can since you seem to think the possibility of being set free is the same as being free.QUOTE: "Amazing how you can not admit that the possibility of something is not the same as the actual thing in question. It is possible that you will die in the next minute so should we consider you dead right now?"
ANSWER: Amazingly, how you fail to realize that the possibility of something happening is highly possible, I can die in the next minute but it is also possible I won't so can we say that I am dead now?
