Are Muslims christians?

[sin_is_fun]

Only believers go to heaven and the rest go to hell.Fine,but who are the believers?Obviosuly those who believe in jesus and his teachings.

Such believers are called as christians.But what is the definition of the term christian?THis definition is important since we should know who is a christian and who isnt, since non-christians are allegedly headed to hell.

www.dictionary.com defines a christian as follows

1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

The problem here is "what is the religion that follows the teachings of Jesus?" and "who lives according to the teachings of jesus?"

many religions claim that they are the true followers of christ.For example Islam.Muslims say that they are the true followers of jesus.

So what is the criteria to be called as a christian and enter into heaven?

1)If it is acceptance of jesus as a way to reach god-well muslims,mormons,jehovah's witnesses accept jesus as a way to reach god.

2) If it is acceptance of trinity-well unitary christians dont accept jesus as god.In fact trinity was decided by the meeting held under constantine and till that there was confusion about jesus as a prophet or god.

There is every chance that a real believer in jesus might have been a unitary christian then,since the position of the church wasnt clearcut till that meeting.So belief in trinity cannot be a criteria for entry into heaven.


I am not entering into techinicalities of trinity vs unitary or differences between islam and christianity.Muslims believe that they follow the right path shown by jesus.so will they be denied entry into heaven?If yes,why?

If it can be argued that they dont follow the right path, then even in christianity there are various sects which are different from each other.Catholics believe in "faith and deeds" whereas protestents believe in faith alone as the way to salvation,so only one of these groups are following the "right path".where are the rest headed to?

so what is the parameter used by god to refuse the sects that follow jesus like muslims,jehovah's witness , mormon's etc to heaven and allow catholics,protestents etc only to heaven?

[Overcomer]

Only believers go to heaven and the rest go to hell.Fine,but who are the believers?Obviosuly those who believe in jesus and his teachings.

Such believers are called as christians.But what is the definition of the term christian?THis definition is important since we should know who is a christian and who isnt, since non-christians are allegedly headed to hell.

www.dictionary.com defines a christian as follows

1.One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2.One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

The problem here is "what is the religion that follows the teachings of Jesus?" and "who lives according to the teachings of jesus?"

many religions claim that they are the true followers of christ.For example Islam.Muslims say that they are the true followers of jesus.

So what is the criteria to be called as a christian and enter into heaven?

It's important to start this discussion with the correct definition of a Christian. The dictionary doesn't get it right. Christianity is not simply adhering to a specific belief system or following Christ's teachings. A Christian is a person who is in a relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ through the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

Christianity is all about relationship. It's all about God coming to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to sacrifice himself out of love and anyone who enters into a relationship with him will spend eternity in heaven with him.

All other religions are all about men trying to reach God and trying to do good deeds to earn a place in heaven. No man can earn his salvation as he cannot make himself sin-free and a person must be sin-free to enter the presence of God in heaven.

That's why Jesus came, to atone for our sins, to give salvation as a gift to all those who accept him as the Son of God, God Incarnate, the second person in the Triune God, born of the Virgin Mary, crucified, but resurrected from the dead. This is who he is and this is who those who are in a relationship with him know him to be.

Muslims have no personal relationship with God and reject Jesus as God Incarnate, thinking of him only as a prophet. Jehovah Witnesses think Jesus was an angel and not the Son of God, God incarnate. These people don't know Jesus. If they did, they wouldn't believe such lies about him.

Jesus himself said that there are people who will call him Lord, thinking they will get into heaven, but he will reject them because he doesn't know them and they don't know him. When Jesus uses the word "know" to describe his followers, he is talking about those who know him intimately. That's the connotation of the verb used. The people who know Jesus the way they know their parents, their siblings, their spouses, their children -- these are the people who will enter heaven.

How does a person get to be in a relationship with Christ? Anyone who recognizes himself as a sinner has only to confess his sins, ask forgiveness and SINCERELY ask Jesus into his life to transform him. But such a request must be sincere because God will not be mocked.

By the way, sin only seems fun. When you connect with Jesus and overcome sin, that's when life really IS fun!!!!!

[sin_is_fun]

It's important to start this discussion with the correct definition of a Christian. The dictionary doesn't get it right. Christianity is not simply adhering to a specific belief system or following Christ's teachings. A Christian is a person who is in a relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ through the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

This definition of christian "Christian is a person who is in a relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ through the infilling of the Holy Spirit" is one given by trinity christians.This view became popular only after the council of nicea in 325 AD.THis view existed even before that but this was made official only after the Nicea council.

what was the status of a christian before that?what if he sincerely followed arianism which believed that jesus wasnt divine?The quarell between unitary christians and trinitarians is legendary and continues even now.Officially it came to an end in 325 AD.But people were born and dying in the meanwhile.what about them?what if they sincerely thought that jesus was a messiah and not god?

So this definition doesnt hold up.This definition throws out a person "who had a relationship with lord yhwh through the prophet jesus christ" into hell.Was it his mistake that church did not officially decide without an iota of doubt about the status of jesus till 325 AD?

Christianity is all about relationship. It's all about God coming to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to sacrifice himself out of love and anyone who enters into a relationship with him will spend eternity in heaven with him.

again, nature of this relationship is debated.This nature of relationship with god wasnt properly defined till 325 AD. And even that decision was contested severely.People who contest that decision might do so due to genuine doubts.But again this raises the question "Is belief in trinity the parameter to enter heaven?"

All other religions are all about men trying to reach God and trying to do good deeds to earn a place in heaven. No man can earn his salvation as he cannot make himself sin-free and a person must be sin-free to enter the presence of God in heaven.

you are forgeting that fellow catholics deny this.They say that faith and deeds alone will take a man to heaven and mere faith isnt enough.So there isnt unanimity of view on this among christians themselves.If there is confusion among entry criteria into heaven naturally some confused people will head to hell.For example assuming catholics to be right, assuming that deeds and faith are needed and not faith alone it means that except catholics all others will go to hell.

Note here that I am not saying catholics are right or wrong.Im pointing out the pitfalls for the entry criteria into heaven.It is ill defined,it is confusing.So when the criteria itself is so ill defined how will god judge people?On what basis will he send people to hell and heaven?

If you say god alone knows it, then it is injustice to people who genuinenly believe in a different criteria and head to hell as a result

Muslims have no personal relationship with God and reject Jesus as God Incarnate, thinking of him only as a prophet.

Had constantine decided in favor of arianism now you too will be calling jesus as a prophet.Imagine that in council of nicea somehow arianism truimphed whereas trinity was the truth.Then entire christian population would be unitary christians.But will they all head to hell since they did not believe in the divinity of jesus?

Jesus himself said that there are people who will call him Lord, thinking they will get into heaven, but he will reject them because he doesn't know them and they don't know him. When Jesus uses the word "know" to describe his followers, he is talking about those who know him intimately. That's the connotation of the verb used. The people who know Jesus the way they know their parents, their siblings, their spouses, their children -- these are the people who will enter heaven.

many people claim to know jesus like that.They claim that they know jesus as a prophet more intimately.

How does a person get to be in a relationship with Christ? Anyone who recognizes himself as a sinner has only to confess his sins, ask forgiveness and SINCERELY ask Jesus into his life to transform him. But such a request must be sincere because God will not be mocked.

A muslim will have no objections in asking jesus to pray to allah to forgive his sins.A muslim will not object to have a relationship with jesus.He claims that he has the perfect relationship with jesus and claims that he knows his better than christians.

He might be wrong or right, but again he believes it sincerely.He is in same shoes of a protestant who might be wrong of catholics are correct.

By the way, sin only seems fun. When you connect with Jesus and overcome sin, that's when life really IS fun!!!!!

I dont believe that I have sinned.I havent commited a single sin till date.what you guys brand as sin, for example lust actually isnt sin and is real fun.

[mikka]

Hey SIF, how do you know lust isn't a sin?

[sin_is_fun]

Hey SIF, how do you know lust isn't a sin?

because 100% of humans have it.what 100% of people do aint sin

[Arch]

It's important to start this discussion with the correct definition of a Christian. The dictionary doesn't get it right. Christianity is not simply adhering to a specific belief system or following Christ's teachings. A Christian is a person who is in a relationship with God in the person of Jesus Christ through the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

This is the correct definition according to the doctrine of your faith. This definition is neither in the bible nor any non relgions lexicon.

Christianity is all about relationship. It's all about God coming to earth in the person of Jesus Christ to sacrifice himself out of love and anyone who enters into a relationship with him will spend eternity in heaven with him.

Again on your doctrine, which holds no authority in the matters of spirituality. If you truly believe in the GOd of the bible you would know he doesn't go on the popular vote nor does he allow men to DEFINE things for him.

All other religions are all about men trying to reach God and trying to do good deeds to earn a place in heaven. No man can earn his salvation as he cannot make himself sin-free and a person must be sin-free to enter the presence of God in heaven.

Your own bible says FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD

That's why Jesus came, to atone for our sins, to give salvation as a gift to all those who accept him as the Son of God, God Incarnate, the second person in the Triune God, born of the Virgin Mary, crucified, but resurrected from the dead. This is who he is and this is who those who are in a relationship with him know him to be.

Once again a statement and definition given only by your doctrine of faith and its not even supported by scripture without your extreme interpretations of it.

Muslims have no personal relationship with God and reject Jesus as God Incarnate, thinking of him only as a prophet. Jehovah Witnesses think Jesus was an angel and not the Son of God, God incarnate. These people don't know Jesus. If they did, they wouldn't believe such lies about him.

And you do? Why is it that most Christians know the least about Jesus other than what is given in their church as doctrines of their religion? Why is it that Chrisitans behave the least like Jesus did? Most Christians dont even know the man's real name, when he birthday was , or what most of his teachings meant. They never studied what he studied. They eat what he didnt eat. THey behave in ways he didn't behave.

How do you Chrisitans claim to be the authorities on a relationship with Jesus when most of you know actually nothing about the man?

To say a muslim doesn't have a realtionship with GOD is insulting and disturbed. I am not even a muslim and i find that statement to be much like a christian and nothing like a CHRIST.

Jesus himself said that there are people who will call him Lord, thinking they will get into heaven, but he will reject them because he doesn't know them and they don't know him.

Read the whole chapter

Chrisitans are the one that call him lord, no one else claims to heal in Jesus name. No one else claims to prophetsize in Jesus' name. NO ONE BUT CHRISTIANS.

The last statement makes it very clear.

I WILL SAY I KNOW YEA NOT YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

OF all the religions based on the bible Chrisitans are one of the few that say they dont have to keep the LAW

It would show that Jesus was mostly likely talking about Chrisitans in that verse than anyone else.

How does a person get to be in a relationship with Christ? Anyone who recognizes himself as a sinner has only to confess his sins, ask forgiveness and SINCERELY ask Jesus into his life to transform him. But such a request must be sincere because God will not be mocked.

As said before muslims have to problem with this. Some muslims even believe that Jesus is coming back to help bring in the judgement

[unprofitable servant]

There are only three times in the scripture when the word "Christian" is mentioned:

Acts 11:
26And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Acts 26:28Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1 Peter 4:16Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

The third scripture 1 Peter 4:16 may be a corruption of the original, I can't find the documents I had concerning this so I won;t comment on it yet.

In Acts 11 the writer says that they "were called christians first in Antioch." Notice they did not call themselves christians but were called this name by others. It may be that they were called that as a dig against their belief in Christ, as followers of His.

When King Agrippa said to Paul the above statement, what did Paul say? He said: 29And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

He did not say 'I would to God" that they were all Christians as he was, but rather as he was. Why?

The scripture teaches: jude 17But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
18How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
19These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

"who seperate themselves" this is what is done by taking the name christian.Paul did not get into this seperation of believers as christians or any other name.

Rather he said "You are Christ"

All the names of the denominations that are mentioned in this thread 'seperate themselves sensual having not the spirit'

Jesus did not give us any names or monikers to set on ourselves to identify ourselves as followers and disciples of His but He says "Let your light so shine before men that they may see you good works and glorify your Father which is in heaven' Matt 5

These ones who title themselves by all thes different names are the same ones Jesus said: Matt 15: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

So whether you are christian muslim or whatever other thing you profess to be as long as you follow the 'commandments of men' each and everyone of you will fall into what Jesus testified at matt 7:21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man,......

Thus saith your Lord Jesus Christ "He that hath ears to hear let him hear"

[unprofitable servant]

Oh by the way Jesus said: Matt 7: 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Notice how He said 'and many there be which go in thereat' Count all that say they go to heaven or that they are the truth and are sons of God aren't they many?

[samuelbb7]

There are two main places in the New Testament where it talks about how being saved is done. They are John chapter three and Romans three. Now overcomer is right on it being a relationship. But arch while some Christians say no law. The majority say the law is to define sin and say we should not break the law but keep it out of love for GOD.

Now JESUS told his followers to make disciples. That is people who walk in the footsteps of JESUS. Who are true disciples has been argued for ages and I doubt we will settle it here. But John 3 says to be one you have to be Born again. I peter chapter one adds to that. They both explain how faith in JESUS and that He died for our sins and rose again are a major ingredient. Muslims do not belive JESUS died on the cross and do not belive his blood paid for their sins. In a nutshell Paul explains it this way.

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Romans 6 and Galatians 5 speak of what living like a Christian is.

Now how important are doctrines. I am not going to discuss. But this I will assert. That to be saved you must Love the Lord your GOD with all your heart, all your soul and all your mind and your neighbor as yourself. If you do not you have not truly established a relationship with GOD. If you have GOD will work on the knowledge part by the power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

[unprofitable servant]

Yet those who claim to follow Jesus do not. These are the same ones that claim that they are heaven bound.

Muslims do not claim that they will go to heaven but "to a garden where underneath flows rivers of waters" Their understanding of where this garden is is better understood by them than the Christian heaven.

I wouldn't ask a Muslim to be a Christian nor do I think they should become christian.

Jesus said "Whosoever receiveth a prophet int the name of a prophet shall receive a prophets reward and whosoever shall receive a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous mans reward"

If they receive Jesus in this manner we can't say where they shall end up.
This is the judgement between them and God.

If christians followed Jesus as they say they do then when Jesus said 'Judge not that you be not judged' would stay in their minds and heart
but it doesn't.

Both Muslims and Christians fall into this condemnation "Well hath Isaiah the prophet spoken of you hypocrites saying 'This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth and do honour with their lips but their hearts are far from me, for in vain they do worship me teaching for doctrine the commandments of men"

Men teach how to judge and that is what is being done.

Jesus said 'He that knoweth of God him will My Father draw to me'

So behold the beam in your own eye before you condemn the mote that is in your brothers