Miracles And Power

[Ambie4]

As Shermana proposed in a previous topic, miracles ARE the reason why the first church spread so fast and all that power is STILL AVAILABLE!! I did not believe it until it happened to me personally over 20 years ago and I am still walking with God.

First of all, I would like to remind you all that Jesus came to save sinners, not the righteous. Those of you who think you are already righteous may not want to hear what I'm going to say, but those of you struggling with sin or doubt may be very happy to hear my testimony, which I will keep as short as possible.

I was raised in a church that believed miracles passed away when the New Testament was compiled. This included the miraculous instances recorded in Acts 2, Acts 10 and Acts 19 where the first disciples received the Holy Spirit with the miraculous evidence of speaking supernaturally in other languages. As a result of my 'church' upbringing, as a child I learned about all the miraculous things God did over thousands of years, but did not see or expect any evidence of it in the so-called 'real world'. I found this very confusing and while I didn't lose faith, I felt I could never truly get in touch with my Creator or with Jesus the way the people in the Bible did.

As a teenager, I was a very depressed and 'dark' kid who partied a lot and didn't really care about life. I also dabbled in the occult during that time, which taught me that there was an invisible spiritual realm around us that could be easily communicated with. I was fascinated with it at the time but God fortunately steered me away from that dangerous arena. When I started college, I tried to clean up my life and turn to God but found it pretty much impossible, due to my dependency on drugs, cigarettes, alcohol and friends with similar dependencies. I kept praying to God that he would help me, and started reading the Bible with friends who were partiers, like me. During this time one of my friends and I started having arguments/discussions about speaking in tongues. He had gone to a Pentecostal church as a kid and claimed it was real but I didn't believe in it and thought it was hype. One day, he brought a guy to our Bible study whom all our friends had known as a bigtime drug user, as this guys parents even used drugs. When he came to our Bible study, he looked different - not totally conventional but he had cut off his dread locks and ditched his leather jacket that had all his favorite punk rock bands painted on it, which most of us also owned. This guy, Steve, had been healed from using drugs and alcohol and he told me that I needed to receive the Holy Spirit. My church had told me that I had received the Holy Spirit when I was baptized when I was 12, but I remembered feeling disappointed when nothing happened and nothing changed. It definitely wasn't the 'Holy Ghost and Fire' baptism that John the Baptist foretold that Jesus would give to people, which also happened in Acts chapter 2.

After arguing for a while, I asked this guy how I would know if I had received the Holy Spirit. He told me I would speak supernaturally in another language. To me, this sounded more like what John the Baptist had been talking about - an experience accompanied by a miraculous sign. Immediately I was both excited and afraid that what this guy was saying wouldn't pan out - it really seemed too good to be true. Also, I was afraid that speaking in tongues was just emotionalism and wasn't a real act of God. I wanted to know the truth so I started going to his church, got re-baptized in the knowledge of the Holy Spirit, just like the believers at Ephasus did in Acts 19, and I started to pray. About 3 weeks later, I received the Holy Spirit praying at my friends' apartment and I quietly but powerfully spoke in tongues. I was instantly healed from a 5 year smoking addiction, no more desire to drink, no more drugs, no more bad language - and all that was 20 years ago. Since that day, I've had the ability to speak in tongues whenever I want by the Holy Spirit. It is a special prayer language that I use every day when I'm alone with God. The Bible says the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us, and it's in the awesome, miraculous language that God gives us. I know people commonly have this type of experience in Pentecostal churches but there is sometimes a lot of confusion and disorderly worship that goes on in those types of churches, just like there was in the Corinthian church, where people were getting together for worship and saying all their prayers in tongues instead of in the common language, which was why Paul had to correct them and say that he praised God that he spoke in tongues more than all of the Corinthian believers (I Cor. 14) but, in the worship service, it was important to use words that everyone could understand and to limit the use of tongues during the worship service so that outsiders didn't get frightened or confused.

Since that day over 20 years ago, I have realized that Jesus is alive and working with power just like He did when He walked the earth and just like He did in the first church. I am part of a fellowship that believes in miraculous healings and provision. We have a lot of members who see amazing, miraculous answers to prayer, especially in our churches in less developed countries, where our new members commonly get healed from serious conditions such as AIDS, lameness and blindness when they turn to God, get baptized and receive the Holy Spirit. God really does want to work in your life JUST LIKE HE DID in Bible times. If you haven't experienced His power, I hope you will open yourself up to it - it is truly AWESOME!! God Bless!

[Clownboat]

@Tex - Thank you. If you have not received the Holy Spirit and would like to, please e-mail me and I can give you some encouragement.

@Jax - As was the case in Acts 2, the languages are legitimate and each person is given a different one, so if the other person has studied the language then they will be able to understand it. However, the purpose of tongues is not to communicate with another person, but directly to God. That is why Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries."

@Haven - thank you very much for attempting to legitimize my post. I guess I need to learn the ropes. As for your comments about doubting the supernatural, the supernatural requires a certain degree of faith to witness, but really not very much. For example, the Bible says in Acts 2:39 that the promise of the Holy Ghost, the same thing that I received, is available to everyone: "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." So if you are really curious, you can test out the claim I've made and receive the Holy Spirit yourself, then you can decide what the Truth is. Once a person receives the Holy Spirit, it doesn't ever go away and so you will be able to calmly, quietly speak in the language that God will give you whenever you choose to, and you will feel another Presence making the words come out, but it is not something that will attempt to overpower you and it is not something you have to work yourself up into a particular emotional state to perform.

I am no longer a Christian. Why can I still speak in tongues and why does it not impart the same impact on me as it does to you?

[connermt]

@Tex - Thank you. If you have not received the Holy Spirit and would like to, please e-mail me and I can give you some encouragement.

@Jax - As was the case in Acts 2, the languages are legitimate and each person is given a different one, so if the other person has studied the language then they will be able to understand it. However, the purpose of tongues is not to communicate with another person, but directly to God. That is why Paul says in 1 Cor. 14:2 "For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries."

@Haven - thank you very much for attempting to legitimize my post. I guess I need to learn the ropes. As for your comments about doubting the supernatural, the supernatural requires a certain degree of faith to witness, but really not very much. For example, the Bible says in Acts 2:39 that the promise of the Holy Ghost, the same thing that I received, is available to everyone: "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." So if you are really curious, you can test out the claim I've made and receive the Holy Spirit yourself, then you can decide what the Truth is. Once a person receives the Holy Spirit, it doesn't ever go away and so you will be able to calmly, quietly speak in the language that God will give you whenever you choose to, and you will feel another Presence making the words come out, but it is not something that will attempt to overpower you and it is not something you have to work yourself up into a particular emotional state to perform.

I am no longer a Christian. Why can I still speak in tongues and why does it not impart the same impact on me as it does to you?

Why people continue to hold this in such a high regard is bewildering to me, as anyone can claim this ability and no one can say it's not "true". I'm anxious to see their response!

[Tex]

I've never spoken in tongues, but when I look at the fruits of the spirit listed in James and hold them up in the mirror, I'm confident that He is working in me.

Tex: You were 18....Don't worry about it. Plus if you go walking into a church speaking Aramaic, they won't understand you too.

[Ambie4]

From Artie

Speaking in tongues is an ancient heathen practice and is common in ancient pagan religions. It is strange that Christians should attribute this phenomenon to the Christian God when it is also practiced by for example Haitian witch doctors?
http://www.dividedbytruth.org/FD/sitnnc.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

If God of the Bible is real then the Devil is just as real. The Bible says that pagan worship is demon worship. In Leviticus 17:7 it says that Israel offered sacrifices to demons when they sacrificed to the pagan the gods of Egypt/Canaan. If there is power in those heathen religions, it's by the Devil. Why wouldn't the Devil want to try to mock or depreciate the things that God has instituted by imitating them in a base manner? It is true that long before the virgin birth of Christ, many pagan religions celebrated a virgin goddess who gave birth to a son who died and was resurrected. Minor variations of this story were all over Canaan long before Christ was born. The cult of this godess figure also involved religious prostitution - clearly against the laws instituted in the Bible. It doesn't mean anything if other religions copy what God has instituted. What matters are the fruits. Like Jesus said, an evil tree does not bear good fruit and a good tree does not bear evil fruit. God is Love - where He is working, good things are happening. [/quote]

[Ambie4]

Moses - I am very sorry you had such a bad experience in a place that happened to practice speaking in tongues, among many other things.

The church I was raised in was very conservative and justified their belief that speaking in tongues was now obsolete by noting such behaviors as you observed among those who did claim to speak in tongues - extreme emotionalism, a.k.a. 'holy rollers'. This was actually the reason why I argued when I was initially told that speaking in tongues was real - I didn't believe it would ever happen to me because I knew myself well enough to know I would never give in to crowd psychology or any such emotional persuasion.

Fortunately, the person who first explained to me about receiving the Holy Spirit did not go to a church that practiced any type of emotionalism. If so, I would have felt so uncomfortable and probably would not have stayed. Instead, I was simply told that if I prayed in an audible voice to receive the Holy Spirit, God would answer me by changing what I was saying into a new language given by the Holy Spirit. I was told that from then on, I would have the Gift of the Holy Spirit permanently and could use the language to pray to God whenever I wanted. When I actually did receive it, I was just praying quietly with some other Spirit-filled believers who were praying quietly in their prayer language. It was not a 'fire and brimstone' prayer session.

Unfortunately, your story is all too familiar and happens in many churches. Paul clearly addresses the need for orderly worship in his letter to the Corinthian church, especially with regard to how the gifts of the Holy Spirit are to be displayed during a public worship service. In I Cor. 14:40, he writes: "Let all things be done decently and in order." His intention was to prevent the kind of doubtful, confusing events you witnessed.

[Ambie4]

If I claimed to have something from God that I could not or would not share with you then perhaps you would be correct in that I was rambling about personal experiences with no evidence; however, what I am presenting is a challenge to everyone who reads this thread. Anyone and everyone can have the exact same experience that I have had. If you want evidence then put God to the test - if you pray sincerely to God in an audible voice to receive the Holy Spirit, God will answer you and give it to you. Now I cannot give it to you so I cannot tell you exactly how long it will take, but it is a promise in the Bible that God will give it to you, and once you have it, it will not leave you.

[Ambie4]

Clownboat - you speak in tongues but you are no longer a Christian. I am sad to hear you say that. The reason you still speak in tongues is because once you receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus said in John 14:16 that it will not leave you. Amazingly, this holds true even if you lose your faith.

What has made you lose your faith? Did you spend very much time praying in tongues when you were a Christian?

[Clownboat]

Clownboat - you speak in tongues but you are no longer a Christian. I am sad to hear you say that. The reason you still speak in tongues is because once you receive the Holy Spirit, Jesus said in John 14:16 that it will not leave you. Amazingly, this holds true even if you lose your faith.

Yes, I can still speak in tongues. We obviously disagree in the "why I can still speak in tongues" though.
Some will look at tongues and see the Holy Spirit and others will see brain washing techniques.
Personally, I see no reason why I could no longer practice a brain washing technique that I once did very often.
We both agree that I should still be able to speak in tongues, but the reasons why can not be confirmed. My personal experience tells me that "I" was and still am the one doing it. No Holy Spirit is involved.

What has made you lose your faith? Did you spend very much time praying in tongues when you were a Christian?

I had learned too much about ancient history and the Bible to maintain the faith I once had, but ultimately I gave up my faith because I could no longer do the mental gymnastics that it took for me to deal with the inconsistencies that I continued to perceived.

Yes, I spoke in tongues often. I was a born again, spirit filled street evangelising, drunk in the Holy Ghost Christian very involved in the Church (as well as Christian schooling).

[Yahu]

As Shermana proposed in a previous topic, miracles ARE the reason why the first church spread so fast and all that power is STILL AVAILABLE!! I did not believe it until it happened to me personally over 20 years ago and I am still walking with God.

I grew up in a non-denominational spirit filled church. One time back in college, I led a girl to salvation. She had been a very bitter young woman that had been mistreated by men. She had NO knowledge of the spiritual gifts.

She witnessed a prophetic word given to another girl and it moved her so much that she wanted to be forgiven for her sins. After she repented while crying in my arms, she asked me to baptize her as well. I told her I didn't do water baptisms and didn't have a place to do so but I could give her the baptism of the spirit. She had no idea what that was. I explained that is was like a greater portion of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. She wanted that so I laid hands on her and prayed over her. She was trembling and claimed she felt the power of God flowing through her. She spoke a short sentence in what sounded like Chinese. It shocked her. She had absolutely no knowledge about the gift of tongues.

I had to explain what the spiritual gifts were, and the correct usage of them. I asked her if she felt any other words welling up within her and then she started prophesying. She went from the biggest slut on campus to the local prophetess that day. This didn't happen in a church service but standing in the middle of a crowd of girls in the Kennesaw State University Student Center. Many of the other girls that witnessed the events were from fundamental denominations that also believed the spiritual gifts no longer operated. Most of them left their fundamental denominations and started attending a Church of God. One of their friends was that Church of God's Pastor's daughter.

One of the girls that witnessed it was a Presbyterian Pastor's daughter. She was the individual that the original prophetic word had be aimed at. As a result she repented for her actions, left her own father's church, got the baptism of the spirit at the Church of God later. Then her witness to her own parents brought them to the baptism of the spirit. The parents repented before the church for teaching false doctrines, taught the gifts of the spirit to the congregation. The church went into major revival then was cast out of the Presbyterian denomination.

That single event of witnessing a valid prophetic word and manifestations of the gifts of the spirit impacted an entire college and several of the churches in the area. Several of the girls present had been Baptist or Methodist. Many left their fundamental denominations to attend a church that taught the gifts of the spirit.

It was not some organized religious event. I had just gone up to Kennesaw to get a date for my fraternity formal. I attended a nearby engineering college. I went there to find the Church of God Pastor's daughter who was a friend. She had been date raped and her sister had brought her to me for rape counseling the year before. She had wanted to date me since that time. I stepped into the Kennesaw Student center and found a few of her friends and came under attack for my counseling methods by the Presbyterian Pastor's daughter and her friends.

[Clownboat]

As Shermana proposed in a previous topic, miracles ARE the reason why the first church spread so fast and all that power is STILL AVAILABLE!! I did not believe it until it happened to me personally over 20 years ago and I am still walking with God.

I grew up in a non-denominational spirit filled church. One time back in college, I led a girl to salvation. She had been a very bitter young woman that had been mistreated by men. She had NO knowledge of the spiritual gifts.

She witnessed a prophetic word given to another girl and it moved her so much that she wanted to be forgiven for her sins. After she repented while crying in my arms, she asked me to baptize her as well. I told her I didn't do water baptisms and didn't have a place to do so but I could give her the baptism of the spirit. She had no idea what that was. I explained that is was like a greater portion of the Holy Spirit's indwelling. She wanted that so I laid hands on her and prayed over her. She was trembling and claimed she felt the power of God flowing through her. She spoke a short sentence in what sounded like Chinese. It shocked her. She had absolutely no knowledge about the gift of tongues.

I had to explain what the spiritual gifts were, and the correct usage of them. I asked her if she felt any other words welling up within her and then she started prophesying. She went from the biggest slut on campus to the local prophetess that day. This didn't happen in a church service but standing in the middle of a crowd of girls in the Kennesaw State University Student Center. Many of the other girls that witnessed the events were from fundamental denominations that also believed the spiritual gifts no longer operated. Most of them left their fundamental denominations and started attending a Church of God. One of their friends was that Church of God's Pastor's daughter.

One of the girls that witnessed it was a Presbyterian Pastor's daughter. She was the individual that the original prophetic word had be aimed at. As a result she repented for her actions, left her own father's church, got the baptism of the spirit at the Church of God later. Then her witness to her own parents brought them to the baptism of the spirit. The parents repented before the church for teaching false doctrines, taught the gifts of the spirit to the congregation. The church went into major revival then was cast out of the Presbyterian denomination.

That single event of witnessing a valid prophetic word and manifestations of the gifts of the spirit impacted an entire college and several of the churches in the area. Several of the girls present had been Baptist or Methodist. Many left their fundamental denominations to attend a church that taught the gifts of the spirit.

It was not some organized religious event. I had just gone up to Kennesaw to get a date for my fraternity formal. I attended a nearby engineering college. I went there to find the Church of God Pastor's daughter who was a friend. She had been date raped and her sister had brought her to me for rape counseling the year before. She had wanted to date me since that time. I stepped into the Kennesaw Student center and found a few of her friends and came under attack for my counseling methods by the Presbyterian Pastor's daughter and her friends.

Religious experiences can be very emotional, especially for people that are prone to it. However, people being prone to religious emotional responses do not make the religion true.

For example, a friend of mine went up for healing for her ears. She had quite the experience and claimed that she was healed. It was quite amazing at the time. I had to wonder after the fact though, why did she keep wearing her hearing aides.