Only adult in the room?

[Korah]

Hey, I'm not trying to insult the Forum or anyone here, but things are just crazy these days. Yeah, Jerry Seinfeld fears to tread on college campuses for fear of getting blackballed on political correctness--nobody can tolerate humor any more. I'd like to suggest it's worse than that. No one can tolerate serious discussion any more. How about we reserve say, this one thread for no side-tracking on the one side to gay weddings nor knee-jerk rejection of supernaturalism and on the other side no assumption that appeal to the Bible (or Koran or religious Law) settles anything either.
How about someone suggests something for discussion and I decide if it's a subject challenging adult conversation. When that plays out (maybe really quickly, as people's sensibilities seem to get trampled upon really quickly) we can settle on some other subject for adult discussion.

[Zzyzx]

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I suppose you're going to deny you're the one who locked me out of the general forums as I complained about in the Comment, Suggestions sub-forum. Or is some underling currying favor with you by helping out?
With "confederates" working for you, how can we keep you from knowing about the rebellion afoot?

Z-man, I'm just teasing about your conspiracy to lock me out and sabotage The Great Debate you're going to lose.

Big talk.

(When is he going to learn that the way NOT to get teased is to be a good sport about it.)

Those who do not fare well in debate of issues and ideas can at least imitate comedians. A thread is set aside in General Chat for those attempting humor http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 36&start=0

Some posts there are actually funny.



This all seems ironic coming from someone who asks "Is adult discussion possible any more?"

[Korah]

[Replying to post 11 by Zzyzx]
Oh, boy!
Are you ever out of the loop!
You spend WAY TOO MUCH time on DC&R.
Ever hear of Jerry Seinfeld?
Chris Rock?
Larry the Cable Guy?
All comedians.
All get paid for making people laugh.
All agree that young people, particularly college students,
have lost all sense of humor regarding the new sacrosanct PC Establishment.
This NEW ORTHODOXY, this wet-blanketanism, can't laugh.
Particularly cannot laugh at itself (as if THAT were anything NEW!).
So these comics refuse to pull tricks, I mean do Gigs, at colleges.
Nobody dares laugh even though everyone knows it is ever so funny!
Even George Orwell could never have imagined this degree of THOUGHT CONTROL!

[Zzyzx]

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Are you ever out of the loop!

Sure enough, I am out of the loop regarding what entertainers and "celebrities" are doing or saying. I do not take my ideas, information or inspiration from comedians, politicians or preachers – but leave that to those who are in the loop.

You spend WAY TOO MUCH time on DC&R.

Thank you for the personal attention. I have time to spend debating because I do not watch television or movies and do not seek entertainment (especially by comedians). Research, writing, reading and discourse with intelligent friends are higher priorities than frivolity.

Ever hear of Jerry Seinfeld?
Chris Rock?
Larry the Cable Guy?
All comedians.
All get paid for making people laugh.
All agree that young people, particularly college students,
have lost all sense of humor regarding the new sacrosanct PC Establishment.

WOW, three comedians say something so it must be right – same as three gospel writers.

This NEW ORTHODOXY, this wet-blanketanism, can't laugh.
Particularly cannot laugh at itself (as if THAT were anything NEW!).
So these comics refuse to pull tricks, I mean do Gigs, at colleges.
Nobody dares laugh even though everyone knows it is ever so funny!
Even George Orwell could never have imagined this degree of THOUGHT CONTROL!

Have you consulted with Arian on this matter? There may be similarities in thinking, attitudes and presentations.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 13 by Zzyzx]
Right on, brother!
Yes, arian's my teacher's pet. He has this durned habit of biting the hand that feeds him, however. Maybe if I were elevated in the hierarchy to Moderator I might get the respect I deserve from him? Just saying.

[Zzyzx]

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Yes, arian's my teacher's pet.

Hmmm -- it seems to be the other way around.

Maybe if I were elevated in the hierarchy to Moderator I might get the respect I deserve from him?

Is "elevation" possible for anyone who seems to suggest that s/he is "the only adult in the room?", declares themselves winner of debates than have not occurred, casually mentions Mensa association (as though that conferred or affirmed status), etc?

Respect is EARNED in debate as well as in real life. Pomposity is not an asset.

The job of moderator is offered to those who have earned the respect of Admin and present moderators. It confers no status or privileges and is often frustrating and time-consuming -- particularly in cases where it resembles doing playground supervision duty.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 15 by Zzyzx]
Hey,
If I were bragging for the sake of bragging, I wouldn't touch Mensa with a ten-foot pole. I shortly on joined Intertel, the high-IQ society for people not merely 98%ile, but 99%ile. Paul Swearingen published a lot of my poems, essays, and sci-fi back in the day (1980's) in Integra. After he died I ran afoul of political correctness (worse even than Mensa, that turned down all nine of the articles and letters I submitted for Mensa Journal). (I did publish extensively, however, in Mensa special interest groups and in their humor journal The Ecphorizer, most notably posing as a female of a post-apocalyptic future named Lottie Fish-Bate.) Back then I was a conservative, and there were at least some in Mensa (the Faux News hack Krum or such originated there), but Intertel seemed only for la-la-landers.
So next I joined ISPE. I had to cheat to get in. Basically racist it (then) required passing a vocabulary test in addition to the usual IQ test (at the 99.9%ile level). I failed the first try, but they would allow a second try. By my high IQ I could assess correctly that any of the four choices that seemed "about" right was for sure wrong. So I chose either one I knew for sure or randomly marked whichever was certainly NOT just about what the word might conjure up. As for passing the IQ test, the Founder Chris Harding had devised his own special IQ test called the Harding Skyscraper. That one I could pass at the 99.9%ile level (about 148 IQ--but it was later withdrawn from use as inadequately normed. But there was another "amateur" IQ test, the Bloom's Analogies, that I could pass at the one in 2500 level, so I didn't feel too guilty.)
Then having gotten in as a Thousander, I could grandfather-clause into the offshoot anti-hierarchical Triple Nine Society. I published extensively in both these (and other) 99.9%ile house-organs Telicom and Vidya respectively, on into this century when my focus shifted to proving that the gospels are mostly correct.
I say all this to YOU because certainly your IQ is higher than mine. You're a rare classic type, the Analyst, an INTJ of totally left-cerebral qualities, totally devoid of feelings or humor. You must have made life unbearable for all your students. (As if your weren't already highly incensed at me for calumniating all professors as amateurs who don't know a thing about teaching.)

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 16 by Korah]

If I were bragging for the sake of bragging . . .

OH, what was the intent?

I say all this to YOU because certainly your IQ is higher than mine.

I do not revere IQ tests and do not compare my intelligence to that of others (or judge mine by theirs or theirs by mine). In fact, I have never taken a formal IQ test (other than the Army "G score").

Intelligence as measured by standard (or any?) tests is just one of many characteristics that influence how a person deals with real life situations. "It ain't what you got, it's how you use it that counts" applies. Many who "have the horsepower can't get any traction where the rubber meets the road."

I observe that many people who have scored high on IQ tests often regard their scores as making them superior to others (snobs) – and often fall on their face and make fools of themselves when attempting to prove their superiority (by fair means or foul).

You must have made life unbearable for all your students.

My term-end faculty evaluations by students in those long-ago times was not terribly different from the year-end evaluations by members of this Forum. Averages of student responses was typically in the range of "Very difficult and demanding but fair."

Of course, students who were among those who "made the upper half of the class POSSIBLE" (i.e., failed or did not do well) tended to be much more negative.

You're a rare classic type, the Analyst, an INTJ of totally left-cerebral qualities, totally devoid of feelings or humor.

You may have guessed right about INTJ Myers-Briggs, but are dead wrong in guessing its implications (or meaning). Some of the following may fit to varying degrees – and some quite well. However, I do not claim allegiance to that test / that description / that category or any other grouping.

INTJ Personality (“The Architect�)

It’s lonely at the top, and being one of the rarest and most strategically capable personality types, INTJs know this all too well. INTJs form just two percent of the population, and women of this personality type are especially rare, forming just 0.8% of the population – it is often a challenge for them to find like-minded individuals who are able to keep up with their relentless intellectualism and chess-like maneuvering. People with the INTJ personality type are imaginative yet decisive, ambitious yet private, amazingly curious, but they do not squander their energy.

Nothing Can Stop the Right Attitude From Achieving Its Goal

INTJ personality

With a natural thirst for knowledge that shows itself early in life, INTJs are often given the title of “bookworm� as children. While this may be intended as an insult by their peers, they more than likely identify with it and are even proud of it, greatly enjoying their broad and deep body of knowledge. INTJs enjoy sharing what they know as well, confident in their mastery of their chosen subjects, but owing to their Intuitive (N) and Judging (J) traits, they prefer to design and execute a brilliant plan within their field rather than share opinions on “uninteresting� distractions like gossip.

A paradox to most observers, INTJs are able to live by glaring contradictions that nonetheless make perfect sense – at least from a purely rational perspective. For example, INTJs are simultaneously the most starry-eyed idealists and the bitterest of cynics, a seemingly impossible conflict. But this is because INTJ types tend to believe that with effort, intelligence and consideration, nothing is impossible, while at the same time they believe that people are too lazy, short-sighted or self-serving to actually achieve those fantastic results. Yet that cynical view of reality is unlikely to stop an interested INTJ from achieving a result they believe to be relevant.

In Matters Of Principle, Stand Like a Rock

INTJs radiate self-confidence and an aura of mystery, and their insightful observations, original ideas and formidable logic enable them to push change through with sheer willpower and force of personality. At times it will seem that INTJs are bent on deconstructing and rebuilding every idea and system they come into contact with, employing a sense of perfectionism and even morality to this work. Anyone who doesn’t have the talent to keep up with INTJs’ processes, or worse yet, doesn’t see the point of them, is likely to immediately and permanently lose their respect.

Rules, limitations and traditions are anathema to the INTJ personality type – everything should be open to questioning and reevaluation, and if they see a way, INTJs will often act unilaterally to enact their technically superior, sometimes insensitive, and almost always unorthodox methods and ideas.

This isn’t to be misunderstood as impulsiveness – INTJs will strive to remain rational no matter how attractive the end goal may be, and every idea, whether generated internally or soaked in from the outside world, must pass the ruthless and ever-present “Is this going to work?� filter. This mechanism is applied at all times, to all things and all people, and this is often where INTJ personality types run into trouble.

One Reflects More When Traveling Alone

INTJs are brilliant and confident in bodies of knowledge they have taken the time to understand, but unfortunately the social contract is unlikely to be one of those subjects. White lies and small talk are hard enough as it is for a type that craves truth and depth, but INTJs may go so far as to see many social conventions as downright stupid. Ironically, it is often best for them to remain where they are comfortable – out of the spotlight – where the natural confidence prevalent in INTJs as they work with the familiar can serve as its own beacon, attracting people, romantically or otherwise, of similar temperament and interests.

INTJs are defined by their tendency to move through life as though it were a giant chess board, pieces constantly shifting with consideration and intelligence, always assessing new tactics, strategies and contingency plans, constantly outmaneuvering their peers in order to maintain control of a situation while maximizing their freedom to move about. This isn’t meant to suggest that INTJs act without conscience, but to many Feeling (F) types, INTJs’ distaste for acting on emotion can make it seem that way, and it explains why many fictional villains (and misunderstood heroes) are modeled on this personality type.
http://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality

The article also presents additional information:
http://www.16personalities.com/intj-str ... weaknesses
http://www.16personalities.com/intj-per ... d-emotions


BTW: Those inclined toward High IQ Societies (which I am decidedly NOT) may find it interesting to pursue that topic with any search engine -- and discover that the vaulted Mensa is near the bottom of the list. The most demanding society has such high requirements that I calculate that only about 200 people in the world qualify. If they ever got together, wonder what they would talk about.

[Korah]

[Replying to post 17 by Zzyzx]
I know exactly what they talk about--assessing IQ among the right-tail of the Gaussian curve where reside only people of three-sigma or more "deviation" from the norm in the rationally-intoxicated sirection. When they aren't discussing which tests give the least-inadequate measurement of their superiority, they are discussing which specialty "right-tail" test does the best job of discriminating candidates for admittance to their hallowed ranks. You probably speak of the Mega Society or above, which employs for admittance its own Mega Test. (I do fine on the verbal, but flunk the Quantitative, as I suppose does anyone over 30). I never met bottle-glassed librarian Ron Hoeflin who devised it, because he is (was?) too poor to travel outside his native Brooklyn. Almost a close friend is Kevin Langdon, founder of the 4-sigma Society and authoritarian anti-authoritarian Founder of the Triple Nine Society. I have been often at his home in Berkserkley where Triple-Nine camp-outs are typically held. (Us guys just sleep-over there for free--not many females qualify, though of late they OF COURSE are taking over.)
Kevin is himself the inventor of the LAIT, the Langdon Adult Intelligence Test. It purports to distinguish (good) fluid intelligence from mere crystallized IQ. This pretty much erases all bias derived from education--thus so over-educated am I that I do very badly, have very low fluid IQ.
Except of course for devising computer programs and cartoons.
They-re apolitical except being the outliers they are they cluster at the extremes of Left and Right. Atheists predominate while others boast of their Jesuit education.
Yes of course INTJs predominate (INTP was always said to be the "Architect" type--did you make a mistake. I met some of them, too flakey to discuss anything with.)

Are you tying to convert me? Prove to me I'm even more of an INTJ than you are?
Well, yes, in my youth I would have assumed I was that bookish type, and even my ADHD did not dissuade me. Certain pathologies only bloom at 18 or above, however, and I always test out as the Inventor type, ENTP. Of course, because of Myers-Briggs complications regarding introversion-extraversion they teach that in some environments an ENTP will function as an INTJ! And vice versa, if you can dig deep and try picturing yourself without inhibitions and neatness.
That's the Army GT (General Technical), not G. You may have been over=flattering yourself with your score there. For example, mine was 154, but the standard deviation is the trick. For THAT test it's 20, so 160 would be required for the magic three-sigma. The usual IQ tests employ SD of 18, so IQ 154 would equal a GT of 160. I'm not three-sigma except in what I consider more important measures of being able to "get" meanings (as proven by my high Blooms Analogies score).
When I think of myself as my stereotypical "Inventor" type I'm not at all like my brother who really does invent THINGS--I invent IDEAS.
Oh, one more thing, quite relevant to current politics and in-fighting here at DC&R, INTJs and other computer-intoxicated types are NERDS--and nerds, however meek and quiet are NOT gays. So now I know your secret. You're not one of THEM--but I won't tell on you, you can keep your cover.

[Zzyzx]

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[Replying to post 18 by Korah]

That was quite a discourse on high IQ societies – which might impress some people. As indicated previously, IQ test scores are immaterial to me and societies of people who are focused upon or obsessed with such things are of absolutely no interest. I mentioned that such societies exist in passing if anyone is interested. I am not. Nor am I impressed by people who are IMPRESSED with their own IQ score (or anyone else's).

Many who announce and brag about their IQ scores are often (general statement of observation) pompous, ego-centric and/or megalomaniac (accompanied by delusions of grandeur and self-aggrandizement).

My attitude is summed up with the statement "It ain't what you've got, it's how you use it that counts"

Are you tying to convert me? Prove to me I'm even more of an INTJ than you are?

Are you trying to make funny again? 1) I do not pretend to know anyone's personality any more than I pretend to know their intelligence level, 2) I could not possibly care less what your personality type (or IQ) may be (however, I do evaluate the merit of what people post), 3) I darn sure do not attempt to convert anyone to anything.

That's the Army GT (General Technical), not G.

OH NO – I made an unforgivable mistake. I left off a letter. Oh no, what shall I do? As I said, I'm not obsessed with tests, particularly one taken over fifty years ago.

You may have been over=flattering yourself with your score there.

Notice that I said NOTHING about my score OR my response to the test – and specifically disclaimed allegiance with any tests. It takes quite a stretch of imagination to warp that into "over-flattering", doesn't it?

For example, mine was 154, but the standard deviation is the trick. For THAT test it's 20, so 160 would be required for the magic three-sigma. The usual IQ tests employ SD of 18, so IQ 154 would equal a GT of 160. I'm not three-sigma except in what I consider more important measures of being able to "get" meanings (as proven by my high Blooms Analogies score).

Who said something about "bragging for the sake of bragging"?

[Wootah]

[Replying to post 15 by Zzyzx]
I say all this to YOU because certainly your IQ is higher than mine. You're a rare classic type, the Analyst, an INTJ of totally left-cerebral qualities, totally devoid of feelings or humor. You must have made life unbearable for all your students. (As if your weren't already highly incensed at me for calumniating all professors as amateurs who don't know a thing about teaching.)

Moderator Final Warning
Hi Korah,

No more talking about members of the forum. It gets people banned eventually. Just go back to debating please.

Please review the Rules.


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Moderator final warnings serve as the last strike towards users. Additional violations will result in a probation vote. Further infractions will lead to banishment. Any challenges or replies to moderator warnings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.