Debating Christianity and Religion

I'm pleased to announce that Zzyzx has been added to the moderating team.

otseng wrote: I'm pleased to announce that Zzyzx has been added to the moderating team.

Welcome in, ZZyzx. May your mere presence ensure forum tranquility.

otseng wrote: I'm pleased to announce that Zzyzx has been added to the moderating team.

So civility, tolerance, respect and politeness are not required to be a moderator on this site? It's very sad and disappointing that you would put somebody on your moderating team who has constantly berated other debaters, insulted their intelligence, flung around personal and condecending remarks and who is very biased.

Look at your past moderators, such as micatala, Jester, Lux and LiamOS. They never made any uncivil remarks in their posts and they never insulted other groups of debaters, unlike yours truely. Also, here are a few suggestions for nontheist moderators that aren't as inflammatory and uncivil:

Nickman, Haven, instantc, FarWanderer and DanieltheDragon.

WinePusher wrote: Also, here are a few suggestions for nontheist moderators that aren't as inflammatory and uncivil:

Nickman, Haven, instantc, FarWanderer and DanieltheDragon.

...and Ooberman, who is a consummate gentleman and scholar, but of course, is too much a gentleman to accept a moderator position...

WinePusher wrote: So civility, tolerance, respect and politeness are not required to be a moderator on this site?

If Zzyzx (or any moderator) violates the rules, you are free to report them. No moderators are above the rules.

As for the selection process, the entire moderating team voted unanimously to bring him on. Is Zzyzx perfect? No. But, he's highly respected by many people on the forum (I know you do not think highly of him) and that's a tremendous factor on the selection process. He's also quite active and a strong debater.

As for your suggestions, we'll take them into consideration when we decide to bring another person on.

otseng wrote:If Zzyzx (or any moderator) violates the rules, you are free to report them.

Will do.

otseng wrote:As for the selection process, the entire moderating team voted unanimously to bring him on. Is Zzyzx perfect? No. But, he's highly respected by many people on the forum (I know you do not think highly of him) and that's a tremendous factor on the selection process. He's also quite active and a strong debater.

So, you brought him on because he's respected and looked up to by other nontheists on the forum and because you consider him a strong debater? Do you not take into consideration qualities like objectivity, fairness, civility and tolerance, all of which he fails in?

And btw, I don't have a problem with Zzyzx. I think he can be a very persuasive debater when he actually argues as opposed to just asking questions, and I've always praised his debate performance in his H2H debate with you over the global flood. I just don't think he's fit to be a moderator because he's biased, uncivil and insults and berates debaters whom he's doesn't like. I can cite many example of this if you want.

WinePusher wrote: Do you not take into consideration qualities like objectivity, fairness, civility and tolerance, all of which he fails in?

Yes, these were taken into consideration also. He seems to be fairly objective and tolerant to me. And I have a belief that his civility will not be an issue with him as a moderator. Moderating tends to put people more reserved in what they say (and I speak from personal experience). I'll also throw this out, Zzyxz has been very supportive of the forum and has already contributed in many ways to the success of the forum. He has also always been cordial to me in any conversations we've had. These are also a big plus for me.

otseng wrote:He seems to be fairly objective and tolerant to me.

On what exactly do you base this on? Have you seen the many threads he has created where he gloats at the fact that you and your moderating team ban Christian newbies at a faster rate than non Christian debaters?

I also have a concern that putting him on your moderating team will only exacerbate the bias you have towards Christian newbies. For example, the newbie Sizzle-D was banned only after 2 warnings. I have seen many warnings given to two non Christian debaters who are on probation right now (I can send you their names over PM if you'd like).

otseng wrote:He has also always been cordial to me in any conversations we've had. These are also a big plus for me.

Like I said, I read through your debate with him on the global flood and he wasn't very 'cordial' towards you. In fact, he was quite uncivil towards you in that debate often making personal and condescending attacks toward you about your credentials as he has done to many others.

In general, moderators should be above the flame wars that go on on this forum. Zzyzx has not and there are many examples of this, so how can you expect him to moderate uncivil behavior? Also, how can you expect him to make fair judgements about a users probation or banishment when he has constantly gloated and rejoiced in the fact that Christian newbies are banned on this forum?

WinePusher wrote: Have you seen the many threads he has created where he gloats at the fact that you and your moderating team ban Christian newbies at a faster rate than non Christian debaters?

I do see those posts as "gloating".

For example, the newbie Sizzle-D was banned only after 2 warnings.

Sizzle-D is a poor example. He was given numerous comments and warnings. We had 6 pages of discussion on him, even though he was a newbie. If anything, we were too patient with him.

I have seen many warnings given to two non Christian debaters who are on probation right now (I can send you their names over PM if you'd like).

If you're implying there is some sort of favoritism going on towards non-Christians, I would disagree with it.

Like I said, I read through your debate with him on the global flood and he wasn't very 'cordial' towards you. In fact, he was quite uncivil towards you in that debate often making personal and condescending attacks toward you about your credentials as he has done to many others.

Since I was the one participating in that thread, I think I would've noticed that. Yes, I took that into consideration. But, that thread is a long time ago. Though I haven't debated him recently, all conversations that I've had with him since then have been quite cordial.

In general, moderators should be above the flame wars that go on on this forum.

If I could just clone myself and add more of myself as moderators, I'd do it. But, we have to settle for the imperfect. Again, I have confidence that Zzyzx as a moderator will live up to the task. If he does not, like any of the moderators, they can be removed from the mod team.

WinePusher wrote:Have you seen the many threads he has created where he gloats at the fact that you and your moderating team ban Christian newbies at a faster rate than non Christian debaters?

otseng wrote:I do see those posts as "gloating".

Good. And you think that someone who constantly gloats at theist users getting banned is able to make fair and objective decisions when it comes to probation and banishment?

WinePusher wrote:In general, moderators should be above the flame wars that go on on this forum.

otseng wrote:If I could just clone myself and add more of myself as moderators, I'd do it. But, we have to settle for the imperfect. Again, I have confidence that Zzyzx as a moderator will live up to the task. If he does not, like any of the moderators, they can be removed from the mod team.

No one is asking you to clone yourself. All I am asking is that you put civil, objective and respectful users on your moderating team. Someone who is uncivil, inflammatory, disrespectful and biased should not have a say in probation and banishment decisions.