Helping Gauleiter88

[ttruscott]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

This post was stuck into another topic so I rescued the thought to give it its own weight. Good luck, Gauleiter88... ask your questions here.

[JehovahsWitness]

QUESITON: How long will it take to "fill the earth"?

We simply cannot answer that question with exactitude. That said there are a few points that should be noted.

Those who can't do the math can't answer the question, I suppose.

While math is far from my forte, my point was there are too many variants to make an exact calculation. Are you suggesting you can provide a definitive answer to the three variables in bold I presented in my post above?

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 11 by JehovahsWitness]

While math is far from my forte, my point was there are too many variants to make an exact calculation. Are you suggesting you can provide a definitive answer to the three variables in bold I presented in my post above?

I'm doing a very rough estimate. You can look at my math. It's VERY simple math.
Do you generally agree with my estimates or not?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

How is that in any way relevant to the point I was making? Whatever the first woman's name was, and however she came about, God expressed his purpose that the earth eventually be filled not overpopulated.

So, any idea how God will take care of the problem of over-population?

One does not have to "take care" of a problem that hasn't been allowed to develop. I addressed the point of a "potential" problem in my post #5 above

JW

[JehovahsWitness]

I'm doing a very rough estimate.

We simply cannot answer that question [of length of time] with exactitude.

Is there any significant difference in our statements on the matter? What in your opinion is the difference between "a very rough estimate" and one that is "not exact"?

Do you generally agree with my estimates or not?

Your starting point seems way off (100,000 is way too low) but the maths seem solid. Did you have a point (one that I haven't already addressed)? or was the point just to show you are better at math than me? If your point was that roughly 200,000 years into the paradise, some changes will need to be effectuated to avoid future problems I have addressed this twice in my posts above (post #5 (final paragraph before the footnote) and again in post # 7 (last line)





JW

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 8 by JehovahsWitness]

How is that in any way relevant to the point I was making? Whatever the first woman's name was, and however she came about, God expressed his purpose that the earth eventually be filled not overpopulated.

So, any idea how God will take care of the problem of over-population?

One does not have to "take care" of a problem that hasn't been allowed to develop. I addressed the point of a "potential" problem in my post #5 above

JW

Hummmm the way I see it, if Jehovah can create a planet that is exactly the right distance from the Sun, with a moon just the right size to keep it's rotation just right, an atmosphere that is just right, with the right amount of liquid water and complete with a rejuvenating ecosystem so that the Earth never needs things imported from another planet. Why should we be concerning ourselves with 'what is God going to do about the Earth's population'? If everything is just right, what makes us think that Jehovah let something like the Earth's population slip His mind? The Bible says at Psalm 145:16 "You open your hand And satisfy the desire of every living thing." There is no need to worry about the Earth's population. The world's population and it's desires will be met. We don't know what Jehovah is going to do because that is not what we need to be focused on right now. We need to focus on living through the decaying world we are in now. That is what the Bible focuses on.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 13 by JehovahsWitness]



[center]
Do we believe post 5 or post 3?
Part One[/center]

One does not have to "take care" of a problem that hasn't been allowed to develop. I addressed the point of a "potential" problem in my post #5 above

Oh, yes, Post 5.

You wrote:

"The earth’s land area is more than 36,000,000,000 acres (15,000,000,000 ha). A population of 15 billion people on earth would allow more than two acres (1 ha) per person. Not only would this provide space for food production but it would also allow for forests, mountains, and other scenic areas—with no undue crowding. "

Here is another calculation that I found on the web:

"What is the total area of habitable land on Earth? And how much habitable land does that leave one person? We’ll use the value r = 6400 km as the radius of Earth. According to the corresponding formula for spheres, the surface area of Earth is:

S = 4 * π * (6400 km)^2 ≈ 515 million square km

Since about 30 % of Earth’s surface is land, this means that the total area of land is 0.3 * 515 ≈ 155 million square km, about half of which is habitable for humans. With roughly 7 billion people alive today, we can conclude that there is 0.011 square km habitable land available per person. This corresponds to a square with 100 m ≈ 330 ft length and width."

https://metinmediamath.wordpress.com/20 ... er-person/

That's roughly about 2.5 ha per person for 7 billion, not 15 billion. Half of 2.5 is roughly 1.3, half of that is roughly 0.7, half of that is roughly 0.4, and so on.. to infinity where each person would have an infinitely small amount of land to live on and off of.

Your rough estimates are fine for a long, long time.
Unfortunately, "infinity" is longer than an long long time.

And in that rough estimate, each and every individual would have to tend to her or his own land.. in order to survive. So, you guys would all have to be farmers, like it or not. The whole earth would become on big gigantic farm. And if we include housing.. that size is reduced. And what about the drinkable water?

I really think this needs a WHOLE lot of magic.
Don't you think?

You guys are going to run out of room if you have human bodies with human needs.

Now, as to no sex, no babies:

You said in the same post: "

Sex and reproduction are not features of heavenly life since spirits are not sexual beings and do not reproduce."

But that completely contradicts your statement in post 3:

"I repeat, the bible promises eternal life on EARTH. Food, drink, fulfilling work, good health and yes, sex and children will be a feature of this coming paradise on earth."


So, which one is it?

[catnip]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

This post was stuck into another topic so I rescued the thought to give it its own weight. Good luck, Gauleiter88... ask your questions here.

Thanks. JWs reply to my previous post suggests a question. I have talked to several Christians who believe in the physical resurrection of the body and claim that we will have young healthy bodies forever in heaven. That seems incredible to me. Sex is a major occupation of young healthy bodies, and children are the result of sex. I won't go into the math here, but what would the population of heaven be after only a thousand years of such constant reproduction? A sewer system for such a large population would be a major engineering project, even for God.

Or are sex and children forbidden in heaven? I have heard women say that their children and grandchildren are the greatest joy in their life. Are we destined for an eternity in heaven without sex or children?

While I see that your challenge is to JWs and not to traditional Christians, I think it bears saying that Christ said that in heaven we will be like the angels. IF we were to return to a "new earth" such as JWs believe in, it would be made in the pattern of heaven--thus we would no longer be male and female (reproductive) but like the angels.

[JehovahsWitness]

Your rough estimates are fine for a long, long time. Unfortunately, "infinity" is longer than an long long time.

And do you recall what I posted regarding "infinity"? Did you read the comments I directed you to in this regard?

If your point was that roughly 200,000 years into the paradise, some changes will need to be effectuated to avoid future problems I have addressed this twice in my posts above (post #5 (final paragraph before the footnote) and again in post # 7 (last line)

JW

[onewithhim]

Hello. I am new to the forum and don't know how to use it yet. I am an American male, 85 years old, retired and now living in northern California. I was raised as a Christian, but not very seriously and soon became an agnostic. Now that I am older, I am more open to the idea of some kind of life after death. I have looked at several religions, but found nothing satisfactory. I have many questions. I don't want preaching, just personal answers.

This post was stuck into another topic so I rescued the thought to give it its own weight. Good luck, Gauleiter88... ask your questions here.

Thanks. JWs reply to my previous post suggests a question. I have talked to several Christians who believe in the physical resurrection of the body and claim that we will have young healthy bodies forever in heaven. That seems incredible to me. Sex is a major occupation of young healthy bodies, and children are the result of sex. I won't go into the math here, but what would the population of heaven be after only a thousand years of such constant reproduction? A sewer system for such a large population would be a major engineering project, even for God.

Or are sex and children forbidden in heaven? I have heard women say that their children and grandchildren are the greatest joy in their life. Are we destined for an eternity in heaven without sex or children?

I wonder what the fixation is on heaven. Why does everyone seem to think that is where God wants us to be? Why did he create the earth if he wanted humans to eventually end up in heaven? (See Isaiah 45:18.) The Bible teaches that people will be resurrected to this earth and have young healthy bodies. Sex is indeed an occupation of physical humans---there is no sex in heaven. So why do people want to go there? And where is it written that people will constantly be having children? We simply don't know how the reproduction part of life will be handled.

Since we will be living forever, travelling to another planet like Earth will not be a problem, even if it takes a million years. Who is to say that we won't be able to go to other planets? This universe is immense beyond our imaginations. I personally have an idea that if the earth gets full of people, there are other "earths" out there that people could go to. Jehovah has it all figured out. We just have to wait and see.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 17 by catnip]




[center]
God magic: The answer to all questions.
Part One[/center]

While I see that your challenge is to JWs and not to traditional Christians, I think it bears saying that Christ said that in heaven we will be like the angels. IF we were to return to a "new earth" such as JWs believe in, it would be made in the pattern of heaven--thus we would no longer be male and female (reproductive) but like the angels.

Right, no sex or children.
The only children there.. would be the " angels" who died early... Or if they "grow up" in heaven.. none after a few years. Every one would be... old. But without bodies, so that wouldn't matter. People in heaven would grow older and older forever.. and apparently, by god magic.. in perpetual bliss.

Heaven is supposed to be bliss... no idea how.
I suppose that a lot of Christians must believe that being in perpetual proximity to the god would magically do that. Wouldn't that be a little bit boring after the first 10 billion years?

Nothing ever new happening?
Just bliss?

I think that might be even worse than the oblivion of death. At least with death.. no boredom possible.

In any case, I don't think that "angels" are like humans. They might like having nothing to do but "worship". I don't consider that there are many hobbies up there in heaven. Nothing to do... just be "happy" and "blissful" ... "loving".

I very much wonder what these words MEAN without bodies... we FEEL our emotions by way of our bodies. So, we might not have sex, children, or feelings, either.. UNLESS


GOD MAGIC
That would be the answer to everything.