Does God change his mind?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

The Christian then attempted to trump it with a contradictory scripture where God DOES change his mind, thus exposing a blatant bible contradiction:

Jeremiah 18:8 "But if that nation about which I spoke turns from its evil way, I'll change my mind about the disaster that I had planned for it."

Here are further verses that show God changing his mind:

Exodus 32:14
So the LORD changed His mind about the harm which He said He would do to His people.

Amos 7:3
The LORD changed His mind about this. "It shall not be," said the LORD.

Jeremiah 18:10
if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it. (wow this is a verse where God says he will break his promise!!)


So questions for debate:

Does Got change his mind?
If he does change his mind, how do we know he hasn't changed his mind about much of what he expected from us in the New Testament?
If he does change his mind, how can we really know what he wants of us today?

[OnceConvinced]

A Christian member of our forum recently pointed out a bible contradiction for all to see:

This verse was presented first:
Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

This verse is about telling the truth.

Correction, the first half of the verse is about telling the truth. The second half is a separate statement stating that he does not change his mind.

[OnceConvinced]

Yes God does changes His mind when there is good reason.

Jehovah was going to destroy Nineveh but because they changed their ways He changed His mind.

"When the true God saw what they did, how they had turned back from their evil ways, he reconsidered the calamity that he said he would bring on them, and he did not bring it." Jonah 3:10

So what about Numbers 23:19. Was God lying about himself there?

[hoghead1]

[Replying to myth-one.com]

I think that God does change in key respects. God is a living personality, and a living personality is a synthesis of both consistency and change.

Look at it this way: If God does not change, how can God get to the end of a sentence? Just think of the changes you go through in writing a single, simple sentence, between the beginning and the end.

I gave a fuller account in my Post 5. In case you missed it, here it is again.

url=http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 596#849596]Replying to post 4 by onewithhim[/url]]

Many people have trouble with the notion that God can change. This has to do with the fact that the Bible is not a book in metaphysics or systematic theology. It tells us very little about how God is build, so to speak. What we get are snap shots that often conflict. And it's up to us to piece them together if we can. Hence, once the church worked its way into the upper, educated classes, and people were asking the big questions, the early church looked to Hellenic metaphysics and standards of perfection, to enable it to provide a solid metaphysic. Certain predominant schools of Hellenic thought, such as Plato, Aristotle, Parmenides, Zeno, viewed the world of time and change as a big illusion. The truly divine, the "really real," was something wholly immutable, immaterial, simple. The Greeks enshrined the immune and the immutable. Translated into Christianity, this meant God was traditionally defined, in the major theologians, creeds, and confessions, as void of body, parts, passions, compassion, wholly immutable, wholly independent of creation, standing in no need of the world. God was seen as the Passionless Absolute, the Unmoved Mover.

Since the 1940's, however, some theologians have challenged this classical model of God. Hence, there is now neo-classical theism. I am a neo-classical or process theologian. We hold that the classical model of God is too lopsided and unrealistic. We view God as a synthesis of both consistency and change. There is what you might call the absolute nature of God, what God always does, that God is always loving, empathic, luring us to greater beauty. And there is the relative nature of God. God as concrete personality, God as continually changing. Being deeply moved and affected by others is also a virtue. God is not aloof, immune, but empathically shares in all the sorrows and joys of all creatures. A wholly immutable or static God is an indifferent God; and who can put any faith in such a Deity? I can't. I need a God who is responsive. I view God and the world as mutually interdependent, and I believe God grows as the world goes.

When it comes to the Bible, many passages do speak of God as immutable, true; but around 100 others also speak of God as changing ( e.g., Gen. 6:6, Hosea, 11:8). Malachi 3:5-7 is sometimes seen as a denial that God can change, but actually affirms otherwise. God persists in certain attitudes ("I, the Lord, change not") and in this consistency does not vary. But rather than affirming divine immutability, the passage speaks of divine change. "Return to me, that I might return to you" implies that if we change in a certain direction, God will change in an appropriate way. In process theology, God is not deflected from a commitment to seek the greatest beauty in all situations; but to promote the greatest beauty, God must be informed by the feelings of others.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com]
I think that God does change in key respects.

Ok.

Name one.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to myth-one.com]

Did you read my Post 13, above, where I thought I gave some very clear examples of how God changes? If there is something you are confused on there, let me know.

Another way I could put the matter is to say God is the eminently sensitive one, the one who enjoys a direct, immediate empathic response to any and all creaturely feelings. As our feelings change, then so do God's.

I view God as a social-relational being who arises out of his or her experiences, just as we arise out of ours. So as God's experiences change, God changes.

God is continually changing because God is eternally creative, eternally introducing relevant novelty into our lives and then also into God's own experiences.

God is also continually changing because God is continually adapting to an ever-changing world, continually responding to new and unforeseen self-determining activities of all creatures.

God is continually changing because God is continually growing, being enriched by the world, learning more about it.

[2timothy316]

Yes God does changes His mind when there is good reason.

Jehovah was going to destroy Nineveh but because they changed their ways He changed His mind.

"When the true God saw what they did, how they had turned back from their evil ways, he reconsidered the calamity that he said he would bring on them, and he did not bring it." Jonah 3:10

So what about Numbers 23:19. Was God lying about himself there?

Nope. Do you think He was? When God changes He mind what do you think He changes His mind about?

Do you think God changes His mind about what is good and just? Since Nineveh changed their ways, why can't God's judgements?

Read the book of Jonah. It's a lesson in love and mercy.

[Justin108]

Yes God does changes His mind when there is good reason.

Jehovah was going to destroy Nineveh but because they changed their ways He changed His mind.

"When the true God saw what they did, how they had turned back from their evil ways, he reconsidered the calamity that he said he would bring on them, and he did not bring it." Jonah 3:10

Did God not know that Nineveh was going to change their ways?

[2timothy316]

Yes God does changes His mind when there is good reason.

Jehovah was going to destroy Nineveh but because they changed their ways He changed His mind.

"When the true God saw what they did, how they had turned back from their evil ways, he reconsidered the calamity that he said he would bring on them, and he did not bring it." Jonah 3:10

Did God not know that Nineveh was going to change their ways?

No. God doesn't make decisions for us. If He did then there would be no reason to send people to preach or warn. People would be born with faith.

"However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?" - Ro 10:4

faith is not a possession of all people. - 2 Thessalonians 3:2

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 13 by hoghead1]



[center]
Life without biology?[/center]

I think that God does change in key respects. God is a living personality, and a living personality is a synthesis of both consistency and change.

I usually think life means the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death. That's from the first entry in my Google search, by the way.

You have a very vague definition of "life", which is usually reserved for bits of biology.



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Question:

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  Could you explain how something that doesn't HAVE any bits of biology has biological characteristics that we humans down below here call LIFE?
  
  

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[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 18 by 2timothy316]



[center]
God DECIDES what we are to OBEY[/center]

No. God doesn't make decisions for us.

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Question:

• 
  
  Then why oh why do we have to OBEY?
  
  

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