Should we take the bible literally?

[polonius]

Can we believe whatever God or Jesus tells us in the Bible?

John 14:14New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

14 If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.

COMMENT: It doesn't work. Try asking God for a winning lottery ticket.

Obviously, the Bible cannot be taken literally.

[2timothy316]

[Replying to post 10 by Justin108]

If a 4 year old asks for a blow touch do you hand him one just because he asked for one? What we ask for is not always in our best interest. Even asking for a lot of money.

"For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains." - 1 Timothy 6:10

[McCulloch]

[Replying to post 8 by polonius.advice]

1 John 5:14 "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us."

A wining lottery ticket apparently was not 'according to His will'.

Matthew 6:31-34 - “So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to wear?’ For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. Your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles."

Are you seeking first the kingdom and God's righteousness?

Is anyone among you suffering? Then he must pray. Is anyone cheerful? He is to sing praises. Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick [only if it is God's will] and the Lord will [or won't] raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they [might] be forgiven him. Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you [might] be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much [or not]. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months [because God must have wanted there to be a really bad drought anyways]. Then he prayed again, and the sky poured rain and the earth produced its fruit. [Not that God was at Elijah's beck and call. God was going to start the rain then anyway] .

[Justin108]

[Replying to post 10 by Justin108]

If a 4 year old asks for a blow touch do you hand him one just because he asked for one? What we ask for is not always in our best interest.

Suppose an amputee asked God to restore his lost limb. Would God do it? How is restoring a lost limb not in our best interest?

[polonius]

[Replying to post 8 by polonius.advice]

1 John 5:14 "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us."

A wining lottery ticket apparently was not 'according to His will'.

Matthew 6:31-34 - “So never be anxious and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or, ‘What are we to drink?’ or, ‘What are we to wear?’ For all these are the things the nations are eagerly pursuing. Your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. “Keep on, then, seeking first the Kingdom and his righteousness, and all these other things will be added to you. So never be anxious about the next day, for the next day will have its own anxieties. Each day has enough of its own troubles."

Are you seeking first the kingdom and God's righteousness?

RESPONSE:

Please note that I am quoting John 14:14

John 14:14-18New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)

14 If in my name you ask me for anything, I will do it.

No "according to His will" is involved. John 14:14 stands alone and is suppose to be free of all error.

But like many Biblical quotations, it isn't true. Which has been demonstrated.

Thus by this simple case in point, the claim of Biblical inerrancy is disproven.

[JehovahsWitness]

Well I can only speak as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, we are not bible literalist, so no the bible isn't to taken literally. Some of it is literal some of it is not. In this case the word "anything" is not to be taken literally.

I'm curious. Did you figure this out before or after evidence to the contrary? In other words, if you read the sentence without testing it, would you have believed Jesus meant a literal "anything"? Or did you notice that after praying, you didn't get what you asked for, so you then figured "gee Jesus must have meant a figurative 'anything'"

Not LITERALLY "anything" in the absolute sense

If Jesus did not mean "literally anything" then what did he mean? What is a "figurative anything" exactly?

I have already answered this question and provided a link to my answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 365#868365

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 5 by McCulloch]

How if taken non-literally can you prove it isn't true?

RESPONSE:

Simple. I prayed for a winning lottery ticket on a certain date. I didn't win.

Did you notice I asked about the verse being taken "non-literally" not literally?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 8 by polonius.advice]

1 John 5:14 "And this is the confidence that we have toward him, that no matter what we ask according to his will, he hears us."

A wining lottery ticket apparently was not 'according to His will'.

What's the point of asking then if God is just going to do that which is according to his will?

There's absolutely no point for the wicked because they mostly want things that are opposed to God's will. The point for those that love God is that they want to further God's will and purpose and are confident in the long run, that it will be for the good of all. So the point for the faithful is to have God's will on a matter revealed, to express their accord with God so they can subsequenly act in a way that is in pleasing to Him.

To illustrate: nobody wants to be sick or to suffer, but the faithful do not pray for relief from their suffering unless it be God's will. Thus a biblically acceptable prayer would be : "I don't want this to happen but if my enduring this will bring glory to your name and further your will and purpose then give me the strength to go through this".

This is effectively what Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemene when facing death.

[Justin108]

Well I can only speak as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, we are not bible literalist, so no the bible isn't to taken literally. Some of it is literal some of it is not. In this case the word "anything" is not to be taken literally.

I'm curious. Did you figure this out before or after evidence to the contrary? In other words, if you read the sentence without testing it, would you have believed Jesus meant a literal "anything"? Or did you notice that after praying, you didn't get what you asked for, so you then figured "gee Jesus must have meant a figurative 'anything'"

Not LITERALLY "anything" in the absolute sense

If Jesus did not mean "literally anything" then what did he mean? What is a "figurative anything" exactly?

I have already answered this question and provided a link to my answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 365#868365

In the provided links, you simply repeat that this is "not to be taken literally". This does not answer my question of "what is a "figurative anything" exactly?"

You're just repeating that it is a figurative anything. I want to know what a "figurative anything" is? When John 14:14 says "ask me for (figuratively) anything, I will do it" what exactly is he saying? What does (figuratively) anything entail?

[polonius]

https://baptistnews.com/article/pastor- ... S7aiOvytoY

Baptist News Global -BOB ALLEN | JULY 5, 2012

“Biblical inerrancy – the idea that the Bible’s authors were safeguarded against error when inspired by God to write facts about science and history in Scripture – is a misleading and harmful concept that has been used to hurt people and is damaging to the cause of Christ, a Baptist pastor in Georgia said recently.�

"(Pastor Richard) Kremer, who holds a Ph.D. in systematic theology from Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, said the reason some people want to treat the Bible like a science book is “the doctrine of plenary verbal inspiration,� which he summarized as, “God said it, and humanity wrote it down.�

"Kremer also pointed out that the traditional understanding of biblical inerrancy applies not to modern versions of the Bible but to a hypothetical original referred to as “the autographs.� “That’s very convenient,� he said. “For no one has ever seen the Bible’s original autographs. Do you know why? They don’t exist! There is not some dusty text, this original hidden away in some obscure cave in Israel.�

“The Bible came into being over a period of centuries,� Kremer said. “Its pages originated in diverse places and in diverse times. The Old Testament existed in oral tradition, passed down from generation to generation before it was ever recorded in print. When it was printed it was written in a variety of places in a variety of versions.�

[Justin108]

What's the point of asking then if God is just going to do that which is according to his will?

There's absolutely no point for the wicked because they mostly want things that are opposed to God's will.

Are you suggesting that whoever doesn't have their prayers answered are automatically wicked? So if I mother prays that God save her dying child from cancer and the child dies anyway, then this prayer failed because the mother was wicked?

For example, nobody wants to be sick or to suffer, but the faithful do not pray for relief from their suffering unless it be God's will. They will pray, "I don't want this to happen but if my enduring this will bring glory to your name and further your will and purpose then give me the strength to go through this".

Broadly speaking, there are two kinds of prayers. The ask-for-stuff prayer and the don't-ask-for-stuff prayer. The example you gave here is a don't-ask-for-stuff prayer. The hypothetical person in this situation is not asking for anything and so is not an example of the kind of prayer John 14:14 is talking about. John 14:14 is clearly about prayers where people ask God for things. Will a prayer ever result in convincing God to do something he would not have done anyway?