The LORD of Glory

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Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:7-8, “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.”

The phrase, “Lord of Glory” is a Hebraism for Glorious Lord, a title applied to the Jehovah in the Old Testament, then revealed in the New.

Isaiah 33:21, “The glorious LORD (Jehovah) will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams;”

Psalms 24:8-10, “Who is the King of glory? The LORD (Jehovah) strong and mighty, the LORD mighty in battle.”

Verse 10, “Who is this King of glory?

This is what Paul meant when he wrote, “We speak of the wisdom of God in a mystery.” Jesus was that mystery, the glorious LORD, the LORD of glory.”

Manoah, the father of Samson, asked the angel of the LORD, Judges 13:17, “What is your name?”

He answered, “Why ask you thus after my name, seeing it is secret?” An Old Testament secret, revealed in the person of Jesus Christ, the "Lord of glory."

Acts 7:2, “The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham,”
He who was crucified as to his manhood, is the Lord of Glory, Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

[onewithhim]

Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:7-8, “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.”

The phrase, “Lord of Glory” is a Hebraism for Glorious Lord, a title applied to the Jehovah in the Old Testament, ...

If Jesus is Jehovah, who is the God of Jesus?

Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17

If the Father of Jesus who is Jehovah, calls his Son Jehovah, who are we to say Jesus is not Jehovah? I'll bet you hate these verses: Hebrews 1:6, the Father said concerning his Son, "Let all the angels of God (the Father, theos) worship him (Jesus)." Hebrews 1:8, "Unto the Son (Jesus) he (the Father) said, your throne, O God (theos) is for ever and ever:" The Father calls himself "Theos" and calls his Son "Theos.)"

You don't need any more evidence, only an open mind.

I'm sorry there are some here who have such a closed mind. Jehovah never called His Son "God." You have taken for granted a twisted verse or two that supposedly shows Jesus to be God, but that is not the case. The Father said that angels should worship Jesus, but not as God Almighty. He is "worshipped" as a strong, venerable (defined as "entitled to veneration on account of character, age, associations, etc."), important, powerful, respected individual.

Jehovah never said, "Your throne O God." It is an improbable translation, ignoring the original verses from the Psalms that the writer of Hebrews was quoting. When you go back to the original verses in Psalms there is not "Your throne O God." The writer of the Psalms said, "Your divine throne will last forever." That is what the writer of Hebrews was saying also, because he copied the verse word-for-word. Not that Jesus was God but that he would get his power from God. "God is your throne forever" is more accurate. Look it up in a Tanakh, the Jewish Bible. Consider also the two possible translations of Hebrews 1:8. Which is most probable? Also, we can see in verse nine that Jesus has a God. That disputes the Jesus-is-Jehovah thing. "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above they fellows." (Hebrews 1:9, KJV) Who is meant by "even thy God?" And did Jesus anoint himself? He said at Isaiah 61:1 that Jehovah anointed him. (He applied that to himself and Jehovah at Luke 4:18-21.) He wouldn't say that if he was Jehovah, would he?

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Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 2:7-8, “But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the world unto our glory: which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of Glory.”

The phrase, “Lord of Glory” is a Hebraism for Glorious Lord, a title applied to the Jehovah in the Old Testament, ...

If Jesus is Jehovah, who is the God of Jesus?

Jesus said to her, "Don't touch me, for I haven't yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brothers, and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"
John 20:17

If the Father of Jesus who is Jehovah, calls his Son Jehovah, who are we to say Jesus is not Jehovah? I'll bet you hate these verses: Hebrews 1:6, the Father said concerning his Son, "Let all the angels of God (the Father, theos) worship him (Jesus)." Hebrews 1:8, "Unto the Son (Jesus) he (the Father) said, your throne, O God (theos) is for ever and ever:" The Father calls himself "Theos" and calls his Son "Theos.)"

You don't need any more evidence, only an open mind.

I'm sorry there are some here who have such a closed mind. Jehovah never called His Son "God." You have taken for granted a twisted verse or two that supposedly shows Jesus to be God, but that is not the case. The Father said that angels should worship Jesus, but not as God Almighty. He is "worshipped" as a strong, venerable (defined as "entitled to veneration on account of character, age, associations, etc."), important, powerful, respected individual.

Jehovah never said, "Your throne O God." It is an improbable translation, ignoring the original verses from the Psalms that the writer of Hebrews was quoting. When you go back to the original verses in Psalms there is not "Your throne O God." The writer of the Psalms said, "Your divine throne will last forever." That is what the writer of Hebrews was saying also, because he copied the verse word-for-word. Not that Jesus was God but that he would get his power from God. "God is your throne forever" is more accurate. Look it up in a Tanakh, the Jewish Bible. Consider also the two possible translations of Hebrews 1:8. Which is most probable? Also, we can see in verse nine that Jesus has a God. That disputes the Jesus-is-Jehovah thing. "Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above they fellows." (Hebrews 1:9, KJV) Who is meant by "even thy God?" And did Jesus anoint himself? He said at Isaiah 61:1 that Jehovah anointed him. (He applied that to himself and Jehovah at Luke 4:18-21.) He wouldn't say that if he was Jehovah, would he?

There you go with that one lame dogmatic statement, "It's an improbable translation." Is that all you got? Do you realize how many brilliant scholars you're calling stupid? Erasmus was considered to be the most brilliant man in all Europe; he was a scholar of the highest authority. The King James scholars were professors of languages, and you're claiming they were all deceived? Yet you give the highest authority to unknown men who authored the New World Translation of the Watchtower. Unknown men in name, and unknown men in education and professorship, yet you follow them like you would follow the god you claim to worship.

One verse comes to mind. "The blind leading the blind."

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It was Jesus who appeared to Jacob as a man. ...

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

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It was Jesus who appeared to Jacob as a man. ...

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

[onewithhim]

It was Jesus who appeared to Jacob as a man. ...

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

There is still no reason to equate Jesus with Jehovah. They are two separate individuals.

[placebofactor]

It was Jesus who appeared to Jacob as a man. ...

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

There is still no reason to equate Jesus with Jehovah. They are two separate individuals.

For the life of me, why do you Jehovah's Witnesses think it is so impossible for the Son of God to share the same name, Jehovah, with his Father? You people make it sound as if it's never been done. They share the same Titles, and the same characteristics, and they share the same name.

[onewithhim]

It was Jesus who appeared to Jacob as a man. ...

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

There is still no reason to equate Jesus with Jehovah. They are two separate individuals.

For the life of me, why do you Jehovah's Witnesses think it is so impossible for the Son of God to share the same name, Jehovah, with his Father? You people make it sound as if it's never been done. They share the same Titles, and the same characteristics, and they share the same name.

No they don't. Jesus' name---Yeshua---means "Salvation of Jehovah." Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves the world.

Does Psalm 110 say: "Jehovah said to Jehovah, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies they footstool"?

Does Isaiah 61 say: "The spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon Jehovah?"

They do not share the same titles. Jehovah is the one true God, and Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.

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...it is so impossible for the Son of God to share the same name, Jehovah, with his Father? ...

Share the same name, or to be the same? Bible tells God gave His name to Jesus. So, it can be said that they sharer the name.

...Holy Father, keep them through your name which you have given me...
John 17:11-12

Jesus acted in the name of God, and disciples of Jesus also act in their name.

[placebofactor]

The problem with that is, Bible doesn't say so, and you offer no good reason to believe so. Do you really believe Jesus would have lost in wrestling?

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

There is still no reason to equate Jesus with Jehovah. They are two separate individuals.

For the life of me, why do you Jehovah's Witnesses think it is so impossible for the Son of God to share the same name, Jehovah, with his Father? You people make it sound as if it's never been done. They share the same Titles, and the same characteristics, and they share the same name.

No they don't. Jesus' name---Yeshua---means "Salvation of Jehovah." Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves the world.

Jesus is the one who sacrificed his life for all men. And because he sacrificed his life, he is the husband of the Bride of Christ. Right! Jesus is our Savior, and he is the Old Testament Jehovah.

Does Psalm 110 say: "Jehovah said to Jehovah, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies they footstool"?

Correct, Jehovah the Father, said to Jehovah the Son. "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies they footstool"?

Does Isaiah 61 say: "The spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon Jehovah?"

Correct, the third person of the Trinity came upon Jesus at his baptism in the form of a dove.

They do not share the same titles. Jehovah is the one true God, and Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.

The Father is Savior, the Son is Saviour: The Father is Elohim, the Son is Elohim: etc. Look, if you want to believe that Jesus is a created being, an angel, or a man, or a Superman or Super angel, that's your choice. You have made up your mind, and it appears no evidence from any Bible except the N.W.T. is acceptable. So, let's end this discussion about whether Jesus is or is not God.

[onewithhim]

Winning or losing was not the Lord's purpose. Jesus showed his power by touching Jacob's thigh and making him lame. Also, blessing Jacob and giving him his heavenly name, "Israel," was the purpose of their meeting. Before they began to wrestle, Jacob prayed. His prayer was a prayer of fear of Esau, his brother. "He prayed to God, "I am not worth of the least of all the mercies, and of all the truth, which you have shown unto your servant:"

Jacob was in such fear of his brother Esau; he left his servants to face Esau and went off by himself. It was then he met the LORD. This wrestling match gave Jacob confidence, and because he did not prevail, nor did the angel prevail, Jacob drew strength and confidence. And after Jacob was blessed, he realized who he had been with. So, he said, "I have seen God (Elohim) face to face, and my life is preserved." It was then that Esau came, and with the confidence he gained from the Lord, he honored his elder brother, and then, they embraced each other.

There is still no reason to equate Jesus with Jehovah. They are two separate individuals.

For the life of me, why do you Jehovah's Witnesses think it is so impossible for the Son of God to share the same name, Jehovah, with his Father? You people make it sound as if it's never been done. They share the same Titles, and the same characteristics, and they share the same name.

No they don't. Jesus' name---Yeshua---means "Salvation of Jehovah." Jesus is the means by which Jehovah saves the world.

Jesus is the one who sacrificed his life for all men. And because he sacrificed his life, he is the husband of the Bride of Christ. Right! Jesus is our Savior, and he is the Old Testament Jehovah.

Does Psalm 110 say: "Jehovah said to Jehovah, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies they footstool"?

Correct, Jehovah the Father, said to Jehovah the Son. "Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies they footstool"?

Does Isaiah 61 say: "The spirit of the Lord Jehovah is upon Jehovah?"

Correct, the third person of the Trinity came upon Jesus at his baptism in the form of a dove.

They do not share the same titles. Jehovah is the one true God, and Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah.

The Father is Savior, the Son is Saviour: The Father is Elohim, the Son is Elohim: etc. Look, if you want to believe that Jesus is a created being, an angel, or a man, or a Superman or Super angel, that's your choice. You have made up your mind, and it appears no evidence from any Bible except the N.W.T. is acceptable. So, let's end this discussion about whether Jesus is or is not God.

OK. Just a reminder, JWs used the King James Version for many years before the NWT existed. Anyone can get the truth by studying the KJV. But you are right. We can end this discussion about whether or not Jesus is God. I know Jesus is not God, according to his own words, but your mind won't change, so let's do end this discussion. We'll agree to disagree?