Paradise on Earth

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 am

When I learned that the Bible speaks of a restored Garden of Eden and the restoration of mankind to the perfection and endless life that Adam forfeited, I was thrilled. Who doesn't want to keep living on this beautiful earth, with our loved ones, and being able to do all the things we love to do---endlessly?

If God said to you today, "When do you want to die?" would you say "now!!"? I don't think very many people would say that.

We CAN live forever here on Earth. The Bible tells us that we can.

Matthew 5:5
Psalm 37:9-11,29

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:32 am

brianbbs67 wrote:

One, the verse you quoted actually backs up my stance and the Bible's. God is coming back with fire and a sword. Read the OT. That is what is promised.

It cant be a literal fire or a literal sword because we know this will also be a final war against the forces of the devil and since the devil is a spirit it would have not effect on him trying to burn or stab him. Fire is often used symbolically for the punishment of the wicked, what wickedness have trees, animals and mountains comitted to merit punishment?

Onewithim wrote an excellent scripture based post, logical well developped post explaining the symbolism concerned
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 372#988372

Eloi asked you some pertinent questions we would all like to see how you answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 070#989070

And all you can say is "God can do anything".... well yes thats true, he can, but He never does anything that violates his cardinal qualities of love, justices, power and wisdom and will never do anything that contradicts his stated word. To destroy that which he has declared very good and which because it is inanimate and cannot depart from that standard, is not wise it is stupid and pointless. It also contradicts Gods stated purpose. The bible says the earth endures forever and so it will endure forever, simple.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Nov 27, 2019 8:27 am

brianbbs67 wrote:
onewithhim wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote: The verse doesn't say all the people and animals will be destroyed. Just the heavens and the earth. And new ones given. God does what He wills and is not bound to our rules of existence. Neither would we or the animals or whatever He preserved when He does this.

Maybe the Earth is just His construct for us for now and this is shut down and a new one opened. (like a holodeck on Star Trek) I am not saying I completely believe this but it is a possibility from the wording.
Please, would you read my post once again? If the heavens and earth are destroyed as you say, certainly all the people and animals would be also. It doesn't make sense that the earth and the stars and planets and the sun and everything out there would be destroyed. What is wrong with God's beautiful creation? Nothing except the willfully evil people. He doesn't mean that he will destroy the earth and the rest of the universe. Just the wicked people who will not be nice.

"The world of [Noah's day] suffered destruction when it was flooded with water." (2 Peter 3:6)

What was destroyed? The actual planet? No, of course not. What was, then?

"By the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people." (2 Peter 3:7)

THE UNGODLY PEOPLE.
One, the verse you quoted actually backs up my stance and the Bible's. God is coming back with fire and a sword. Read the OT. That is what is promised.

As for how people and animals survive, God is almighty. No thing is beyond Him. Our belief is not necessary for Him to do as He wills.

You answered my post in such a way that I really don't think you read it. The Bible does NOT take the stance that the actual planet and the stars will be destroyed.

"The earth REMAINS forever." (Ecclesiastes 1:4)

Please read my post and then comment on what I said.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:55 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:

One, the verse you quoted actually backs up my stance and the Bible's. God is coming back with fire and a sword. Read the OT. That is what is promised.

It cant be a literal fire or a literal sword because we know this will also be a final war against the forces of the devil and since the devil is a spirit it would have not effect on him trying to burn or stab him. Fire is often used symbolically for the punishment of the wicked, what wickedness have trees, animals and mountains comitted to merit punishment?

Onewithim wrote an excellent scripture based post, logical well developped post explaining the symbolism concerned
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 372#988372

Eloi asked you some pertinent questions we would all like to see how you answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 070#989070
And all you can say is "God can do anything".... well yes thats true, he can, but He never does anything that violates his cardinal qualities of love, justices, power and wisdom and will never do anything that contradicts his stated word. To destroy that which he has declared very good and which because it is inanimate and cannot depart from that standard, is not wise it is stupid and pointless. It also contradicts Gods stated purpose. The bible says the earth endures forever and so it will endure forever, simple.

Why can't it be literal? The flood was. I am sorry for you that you find scripture stupid and pointless. Why can not God be taken at His word?

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 1:59 am

Eloi wrote: I wonder where will God put all the angels at the moment of the destruction of the heavens or all the plants and animals at the destruction of the planet ... as some persons say it will literally be the end of this system of things.

He can't put the plants and animals on the heavens cause they say He will destroy them ... and He can't put the angels on the earth if they say it will be destroyed too ...

And now you have shown how you limit our Creator.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:11 am

JehovahsWitness wrote: WHY IS IT BOTH UNSCRIPTURAL AND GOD DISHONOURING TO TEACH GOD WILL DESTROY HIS OWN PLANET?

The scriptures referring to a "new" earth are not to be taken literally. Jehovah would never destroy what he has declared "very good" much less destroy all the stars and planets that have done nothing wrong!

Why should he kill every animal and human (even the righteous) and destroy his beautiful planet because of human misconduct? This is like burning your house down because you have a problem with rodents or like killing your teen because he has developped acne. Or divorcing your wife and getting a new one, because she has developped cancer. God will remove the problem on the earth, namely the wicked and in this way it will symbollically be made "new" (compare Prov 2:21,22). To claim otherwise not only to attributes less sense and critical thinking ability to God than to humans, which dishonors him but contradicts many passages in the bible that speak about the earth being mankinds permanent and ordained home.

For a more detailed explajnation of what 2 Peter 3:13 and Revelation 21:1 really means, see link HERE
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 097#853097

REVELATION 11:18 - Berean Literal Bible

Your wrath came ... to destroy those who are destroying the earth."

REVELATION 11:18
" ...to bring to ruin those ruining* the earth"

* Ftn: *Or to destroy those who are destroying."
The bible prohechy at Revelaion says God will destroy those that are destroying the earth, clearly implying Gods desire to protect the planet. It is illogical and unscriptural that God stops humans from destroying the planet only so that he can have the "pleasure" of destroying it himself!

The bible is quite explicit on this, "the earth remains forever"! (Ecc 1:4).

JW

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To your all Capital response: He has done it before. Are we now so unique He can't possibly wipe us out? There is nothing new under the sun. Can God not raise up sons of abraham from rocks?

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:24 am

brianbbs67 wrote:
JehovahsWitness wrote:
brianbbs67 wrote:

One, the verse you quoted actually backs up my stance and the Bible's. God is coming back with fire and a sword. Read the OT. That is what is promised.

It cant be a literal fire or a literal sword because we know this will also be a final war against the forces of the devil and since the devil is a spirit it would have not effect on him trying to burn or stab him. Fire is often used symbolically for the punishment of the wicked, what wickedness have trees, animals and mountains comitted to merit punishment?

Onewithim wrote an excellent scripture based post, logical well developped post explaining the symbolism concerned
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 372#988372

Eloi asked you some pertinent questions we would all like to see how you answer
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 070#989070
And all you can say is "God can do anything".... well yes thats true, he can, but He never does anything that violates his cardinal qualities of love, justices, power and wisdom and will never do anything that contradicts his stated word. To destroy that which he has declared very good and which because it is inanimate and cannot depart from that standard, is not wise it is stupid and pointless. It also contradicts Gods stated purpose. The bible says the earth endures forever and so it will endure forever, simple.
Why can't it be literal? The flood was. I am sorry for you that you find scripture stupid and pointless. Why can not God be taken at His word?

The Flood was literal, yes. But what was the "world" that was destroyed at that time? That is the whole point---the world that was destroyed was NOT THE PLANET. Why can't YOU take the word of Peter when he said that is was the ungodly people?? THAT is taking God at His word.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:26 am

[Replying to post 1223 by brianbbs67]

Your post # 1223 doesn't make sense to me. Maybe you could reiterate what you're trying to say. Thanks.

brianbbs67 · Post by **brianbbs67** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:21 am

[Replying to post 1225 by onewithhim]

Sure, God reiterates over and over about how He is coming with fire and a sword. He promised water wouldn't destroy us, again. He keeps His word. I do not mean the Earth will be vaporized. Just destroyed by fire and His sword. The OT talks about Israel walking over the ashes and bones of those so destroyed. Have you noticed that their are 8 other planets in our solar system that should contain life, but don't? We are the last one left. But, thats a whole nother discussion.

So, my point is, all could be destroyed and started over as it may have been before. He can do all. He is that which He will be. Ehyeh asher Ehyeh.

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:24 am

brianbbs67 wrote:Why can't it be literal? The flood was.

Did God destroy the planet and put Noah on a replacement? Maybe you could reread onewithim's point...

onewithhim wrote:The Flood was literal, yes. But what was the "world" that was destroyed at that time? That is the whole point---the world that was destroyed was NOT THE PLANET. Why can't YOU take the word of Peter when he said that is was the ungodly people?? THAT is taking God at His word.

Would it be so hard for you to admit the bible often speaks metaphorically?

JW

marco · Post by **marco** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:36 am

JehovahsWitness wrote:
Would it be so hard for you to admit the bible often speaks metaphorically?

Perhaps you should take your own advice JW. The "paradise on Earth" is a maybe a fine metaphor. Or are there THOSE who know, with unerring accuracy, what is metaphor and what is not?

Taken literally it makes no sense. Tough choice.