What is God responsible for?

[Willum]

Many things were done in God's name:
But what is he responsible for?

When the Catholic Nazi Germany attempts a genocide, a man is blamed.
When Hebrews commit genocide on the Canaan, it is his will.

We have plagues, on Catholic countries, for example. The Dark Ages were committed in Yahweh's name. Were they?

Why would Yahweh plunge the civilization of Rome, with health, farming and sanitation, back into the primitive squalor of ancient Jerusalem, if so?

If not, why did he not stop such a terror? It seems to be in His purview.

How does one determine if an act is done in God's will, or men's will?
Does the Bible tell us?

Understanding that free will is a constraint - we can also understand that mob's and large numbers of people lose free will, does this fall into God's purview, then?

In short, how does one know what God is responsible for;
Any group decision?
A decision influenced by prayer?

The position is that presented by Romans 13:

Obey the rulers who have authority over you. Only God can give authority to anyone, and he puts these rulers in their places of power. 2 People who oppose the authorities are opposing what God has done, and they will be punished. 3 Rulers are a threat to evil people, not to good people. There is no need to be afraid of the authorities. Just do right, and they will praise you for it. 4 After all, they are Gods servants, and it is their duty to help you.

The position of the OP is: those atrocities committed by governments, God's will, and he is responsible for them.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 128 by Willum]

I disagree. We always have free will.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 132 by marco]

I always wanted to visit Scotland. I am of Scottish ancestry. Love UK steam trains. Anyhow, down to business. At the conscious, sensory level, we may be unaware of God. But not all our communication with reality is conscious or sensory. In fact, I think very little of our experience of reality is conscious and sensory. The conscious, sensory world is just the tip of teh ice berg. My view is that all creatures subconsciously have a direct, immediate experience of God. So, no, God is not silent. To find God, we need to dig deeper into ourselves and our world.

[Willum]

[Replying to post 141 by hoghead1]

I am so glad you disagree, but this time instead of not backing it up with the Bible, you fail to back up you position with social psychology.

However, mob psychology and mass psychology is a real thing.
If there were a creator, I would assume it was "built" into mankind for a reason. So that God could control bulk events without sacrificing freewill.

That makes sense to me.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 143 by Willum]

What doesn't make sense to me is where you are going with "mob psychology" and "social psychology" here. What exactly is your point?

[marco]

[Replying to post 132 by marco]

I always wanted to visit Scotland. I am of Scottish ancestry.

Yes, we did a fair bit of sowing and reaping in the past. We have built airports, so there is no barrier to your ingress these days. Enjoy Caledonia.

At the conscious, sensory level, we may be unaware of God. But not all our communication with reality is conscious or sensory. In fact, I think very little of our experience of reality is conscious and sensory.

You say these fascinating things with the wisdom of my doctor. But are they true?

My view is that all creatures subconsciously have a direct, immediate experience of God. So, no, God is not silent. To find God, we need to dig deeper into ourselves and our world.

I can think of a few human counterexamples, beings who seem to have no experience of God. Declaring to the deaf that God is making a noise merely emphasises your favoured hearing system. None of my university experiences supplied this apparatus. Wrong courses?

Your view reminds me of Anselm who, in deference to Augustine, would say:

credo ut intellegam - I believe so that I may understand.
I can see how this works but I am not sure that it is scrupulously intellectually honest.
But it is good to hear your views. They do provide little chinks of light on what God may be up to. Best regards.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 145 by marco]

Like to see Scotland, but can't afford it. I live in Alaska. Many tourists from the UK say it looks a lot like Scotland.

Modern psychology well supports the notion that consciousness is just the tip of teh ice berg. Consider the fact that our conscious experience is not primary, but the mere end product of all sorts of unconscious, non-sensory events or experiences in the brain and nervous system. Also, there are many very simple organisms with little or no sensory seem to function quite well. I don't doubt that they can experience. I do not think, however, they are conscious entities. They feel, but they not feel their feelings, are not capable of self-referential statements, do not seem self-aware.

There are plenty of people who will say they have had no experience of God. But that requires a qualifier, namely, that they have had no conscious experience of God. I submit that subconsciously they have. As I explained in past posts, I view all entities as momentary drops of experience. Each moment we are a new self. The "self" is a name for a society of perishing occasions. Each momentary self is something unique, creative. And each moment must begin with an initial, creative aim from God, the transcendent imagination, as to what it may become. Otherwise, there would be no creativity.

[Blastcat]

[Replying to post 142 by hoghead1]




[center]Conscious Subconscious[/center]

My view is that all creatures subconsciously have a direct, immediate experience of God. So, no, God is not silent. To find God, we need to dig deeper into ourselves and our world.

You might not be consciously aware of it, but you just said that you are consciously aware of something that you aren't consciously aware of.


_________________

Question:

• When we become consciously aware of a subconscious phenomenon , isn't that a conscious awareness?

_________________

[marco]

Modern psychology well supports the notion that consciousness is just the tip of the ice berg.

Modern psychology supports notions that I find dubious. It is an infant, speculative science and while I accept that great work is done under its marquee, my professional involvement with the lady has led me to conclude that theories are made between sips of coffee. But that's another matter: there are good and bad in all professions.

There are plenty of people who will say they have had no experience of God. But that requires a qualifier, namely, that they have had no conscious experience of God.

I don't subscribe to this dismissal of those commenting upon their experience. We may all be murderers if we seek to falsify what experience and memory tell us. If God communicates subliminally then there is no need for our Bibles or Korans, however beautifully they are expressed. And presumably his communication is unambiguous and straight to the point. I wonder how one would verify this.

And each moment must begin with an initial, creative aim from God, the transcendent imagination, as to what it may become. Otherwise, there would be no creativity.

As I glance across the globe I don't get the view that the vast majority of homo sapiens is imbued with anything divine. They are mainly life forms that live in order to live. There is no grandeur in their formic industry; just a wage and a crust of bread. If God nudges these human ants then his nudge, in general, imparts no beauty. Only a very, very few aspire to something that the envious others might label divine, in whatever sphere of activity it occurs. It seems a shame to assign credit for supreme human endeavour to the offices of divine anonymity. I prefer to label it Shakespeare, Wren, Dante, Virgil, Michelangelo ..... Einstein.

[hoghead1]

[Replying to post 147 by Blastcat]

NO, I did not say that. I said God is directly and immediately experienced subconsciously. The fact you or I or anyone may consciously talk about God is not a direct, immediate experience of God.

[marco]

[Replying to post 147 by Blastcat]

NO, I did not say that. I said God is directly and immediately experienced subconsciously. The fact you or I or anyone may consciously talk about God is not a direct, immediate experience of God.

Perhaps the objection was that you personally seem to be conscious that God works at a subconscious level where most are blissfully unaware of divine activity.