JESUS IS NOT YHWH

[onewithhim]

Jesus prayed to YHWH, the Father, not to himself. (E.g., Matthew 26:39,42; John 11:41,42; John 17:1-26.) Would he have been praying to himself?

He continually referred to himself as "God's SON," not YHWH Himself. (John 5:19; John 8:28,29; John 10:36; John 17:1.) Even the Jews who hated him recognized that fact (John 19:7). Can he be his own Son?

He applied Isaiah 61:1,2 to himself, at Luke 4:17-21, showing that he was the one anointed BY YHWH, and sent BY YHWH. There are incontrovertibly two Persons mentioned in the passage, and YHWH is the One calling the shots. The anointed one does what YHWH wants. How could they be the same Person?

Psalm 110 is also applied to Jesus at Acts 2:34,35. He is the "Lord," or Messiah, that YHWH speaks to. Was YHWH talking to Himself?


I think that just these few points would show plainly that Jesus is not YHWH. Can anyone explain how THESE REFERENCES, ABOVE, can possibly agree with the premise that Jesus is YHWH? I'm not asking for other Scriptures to be brought in without commenting ON the verses I am asking about. Please give me your reasoning concerning these particular Scriptures. Thank you.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 138 by onewithhim]

That is fine with me, except I do not denigrate any position. I simply challenge it. And I have challenged yours with actual references in their original language.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 131 by Donray]

As I read the OP, it seems that the question is whether Jesus is regarded as YHWH. It seems to me that the context is the N.T.

So, do you wish to argue that in the N.T. Jesus is not equated with YHWH, or is?

You seem intent on going off on some wild tangent.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 132 by JehovahsWitness]

At this point, I am guessing that you do not know Greek or Hebrew. Is that the case?


At any rate, let us take Ro 10:1-14.

The climax here is 10:14

14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? (Rom 10:14 NAS)

Who, in context, is the Him upon whom they have not called?

To me it is clear that it is Jesus.

Do you agree?

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 135 by onewithhim]

There is not one Trinitarian that I have crossed paths with that can explain the Trinity. They all admit that it is a "mystery" and cannot be explained.

And your point is that if there is a transcendent being it should be as explainable and comprehensible as a square?

Explain to me all the observations in quantum physics.

That is just matter: God's creation.

Why should God be less complicated?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 143 by liamconnor]

ROMANS 14:14
I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; only where a man considers something to be unclean, to him it is unclean. - NWT

To me it is clear that it is Jesus.Do you agree?

Yes, Romans 14 verse 14 is refering to Jesus. Did you have a point?

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http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 727#866727
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[Volbrigade]

Isn't God a unity of diversity?

The Triune God (YHWH) is One?

Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?

Did He not express His triune nature in the things He made?

Space: height, width, depth.

Time: past, present, future.

Man: body, soul, spirit.

Jesus is the only begotten Son.

What is begotten is the same as what begets.

Geese beget geese.

Sheep beget sheep.

God begets God.

Psalm 2 can be read as a trialogue among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

[liamconnor]

[Replying to post 145 by JehovahsWitness]

That was not the verse I mentioned.

Ro 10:14

14 How then shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed? (Rom 10:14)

The question is, what is the identity of the "him" in whom the Jews have not believed? It hardly stands that it is God; it is overwhelmingly plausible--beyond reasonable doubt--that it refers to Jesus.

Do you agree?

[JehovahsWitness]

At any rate, let us take Ro 10:1-14. The climax here is 10:14

ROMANS 10:13,14 - NWT
13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.� 14 However, how will they call on him if they have not put faith in him? How, in turn, will they put faith in him about whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach?

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
13 For everyone who will call the name of THE LORD JEHOVAH shall be saved.�

Who, in context, is the Him upon whom they have not called?

See verse 13.

To me it is clear that it is Jesus. Do you agree?

Jesus? No, of course I don't agree with you! The preceding verse introduced which Lord is being refered to by directly quoting Joel 2:32. In your literature classes surely you learnt what a quotation is, you just repeat or copy the words in the original. In the orginal (Joel) it clearly references YHWH (Jehovah) so obviously if Paul quoted Joel, he is referencing the same individual, namely Jehovah.




JW

JOEL 2:32

Darby Bible Translation
And it shall be that whosoever shall call upon the name of Jehovah shall be saved

World English Bible
It will happen that whoever will call on the name of Yahweh shall be saved

Young's Literal Translation
And it hath come to pass, Every one who calleth in the name of Jehovah is delivered

New World Translation
And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 132 by JehovahsWitness]

At this point, I am guessing that you do not know Greek or Hebrew. Is that the case?


At any rate, let us take Ro 10:1-14.

The climax here is 10:14

14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? (Rom 10:14 NAS)

Who, in context, is the Him upon whom they have not called?

To me it is clear that it is Jesus.

Do you agree?

[Left Site]

[Replying to post 145 by JehovahsWitness]

That was not the verse I mentioned.

Ro 10:14

14 How then shall they call upon him in whom they have not believed? (Rom 10:14)

The question is, what is the identity of the "him" in whom the Jews have not believed? It hardly stands that it is God; it is overwhelmingly plausible--beyond reasonable doubt--that it refers to Jesus.

Do you agree?

I can see how easily one might reason that the Jews believed in Jehovah and that thus it could not be Jehovah that is spoken of being called upon in the NT.

The key word is, "believed." Did they really believe? Not according to Jesus:

Matthew 17:17  Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

Mark 9:19  He answereth him, and saith, O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him unto me.

Luke 9:41  And Jesus answering said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you, and suffer you? Bring thy son hither.

It is one thing to claim belief but another thing to really believe.