Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

[polonius]

Jesus prophecized that the second coming would occur while some of his generation were still alive, but it didn't.

There is some claim that really occurred in 1914. But it didn't. So, what's the claim now?

www.britannica.com/topic/Jehovahs-Witnesses

The Adventist movement emerged in the 1830s around the predictions of William Miller, who proclaimed that Jesus Christ would return in 1843 or 1844.

When Christ did not return as Miller prophecied, Adventists divided into a number of factions.

During the 1870s, Charles Taze Russell established himself as an independent and controversial Adventist teacher.

He rejected belief in hell as a place of eternal torment and adopted a non-Trinitarian theology that denied the divinity of Jesus. He also interpreted the Second Coming in accordance with the literal translation of the original Greek term, parousia (presence), suggesting that Christ would come as an invisible presence and that the Parousia, or Millennial Dawn, already had occurred, in 1874.

The coming of Christs invisible presence signaled the end of the current order of society and would be followed by his visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth in 1914.

Although the kingdom did not come, Russells teachings motivated a number of volunteers to circulate his many books and pamphlets and a periodical, The Watchtower, and to recalculate the time of the Parousia.

So when will Christ's visible presence and the establishment of the millennial kingdom on earth occur?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to post 157 by myth-one.com]

Checkpoint wrote:

There is no "millennial Sabbath" in Scripture.

myth-one wrote:

Where might the period of rest for the people of God be -- if not the millennium?

The "period of rest" starts when we are born again by resurrection, and has no end, just as eternal life does not.

Yes, the period of rest starts at our resurrection.

But it lasts for a measly thousand years!

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

[PinSeeker]

Yes, the period of rest starts at our resurrection.

This is a Biblical fact. However...

But it lasts for a measly thousand years!

...THIS is most assuredly not true. It lasts for eternity -- the eternal Sabbath.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

This verse describes what is presently happening -- not what will happen in a literal, future 1000-year period -- and will continue to happen for the complete time (one thousand, in the Bible, is a number symbolizing completeness) God has designated and foreordained for the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought in and the partial hardening to be removed from Israel, which is made up of all believers. In this way, all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25). This IS happening now -- people are coming to Christ -- and will continue to happen for the balance of the millennium.

Now, regarding the millennium itself: The poetic verse in Psalm 50 (all the Psalms are poems, you know) and quoted by Peter in his letter tells us that our linear time is of no consequence -- irrelevant, really -- to God, Who is infinite and not inside His construct of linear time. The practical implication of that is that what we as humans might think of as a really long time -- 2000-plus years, now, and counting -- is as an instant (and vice-versa) to the Lord. People like you and me are being brought in to Israel -- saved -- reborn of the Spirit. To understand this, it must first be understood that, in order:

1. When the first resurrection is referred to, it necessarily implies a second resurrection.

2. The first resurrection is being referred to here, because that's what the text says; that much is inarguable.

3. Resurrection is itself a bringing to life what was once dead. No one will argue with this, either, I hope.

4. In our natural, physical state -- before we are believers -- though we are physically alive, we are spiritually dead -- dead in our sin and unable to lift a finger to better our spiritual lot.

6. When we become believers, it is because God, in His will, by His Spirit, has given us spiritual life, and therefore we repent of our sins and believe in Jesus. Spiritually, we are born again, of the Spirit. This is the first resurrection.

In the words of Jesus Himself to Nicodemas in John 3, goes "where it wishes, and (we) hear its sound, but (we) do not know where it comes from or where it goes; so it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit." This is the first resurrection. It occurs (for Christians) when God calls us out of darkness and into His marvelous light. In so doing, He declares us justified, imputing to us the righteousness of Christ. This is grace.

Grace and peace to you all.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 160 by PinSeeker]

for the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought in and the partial hardening to be removed from Israel, which is made up of all believers. In this way, all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25)

I get what you are saying, except "will be removed".

How are you drawing that conclusion, Pinseeker, and when do you think this will happen?

Blessings.

[2ndRateMind]

[Replying to post 1 by polonius]

Will the Parousia occur during our lifetime?

Maybe, maybe not. To be honest, I am a more than a little sceptical about the whole concept. Whatever, I can't advise holding one's breath until such time as it may occur.

Best wishes, 2RM.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to post 160 by PinSeeker]

for the fullness of the Gentiles to be brought in and the partial hardening to be removed from Israel, which is made up of all believers. In this way, all Israel will be saved (Romans 11:25)

I get what you are saying, except "will be removed".

I don't know if this is what you have in mind, but there is absolutely no Scriptural support for a "Rapture," where half the people in the world will suddenly disappear, as pre-millenialists would have us believe. Christ will not return once and remove His Church from the earth for a seven-year "Great Tribulation" and then return again for the Millennium. That's just pure, sensational fantasy. When Jesus comes back, it will be once and for all, and those who don't believe will be sent away.

All that aside, generally speaking, people are coming to repentance and belief (right?), so God's Israel is growing toward completion. One day, the partial hardening will be removed completely, and all of God's Elect will have come to Christ.

More specifically, though, this has implications for Jewish folks. Generally speaking, ethnic Jews believe the Bible (or at least the Old Testament), but just don't believe Jesus was/is the Messiah -- God made man. There are Jewish people coming to Christ even now, but I think when we start seeing ethnic Jews becoming Christians in large numbers, this will be a sign to us that the partial hardening is close to full removal and the Return of the King (J.R.R. Tolkien reference) is imminent. And that may already be happening, actually, so stay tuned...

...when do you think this will happen?

Well, I'm aware of what's going on and try to stay abreast of current events, but I'm not a date setter. Jesus very specifically told us, in effect, "Be prepared at all times;." He did not say, "Try to guess when I'll be back," telling us instead that it is not for us to know the day and the hour that the Father has set.

Grace and peace to you.

[myth-one.com]

. . . the period of rest starts at our resurrection.

This is a Biblical fact.

But it lasts for a measly thousand years!

...THIS is most assuredly not true. It lasts for eternity -- the eternal Sabbath.

No, it lasts for a thousand years according to the scriptures.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As always, I'll have to side with the scriptures on this issue.

What you claim is impossible anyway.

A sabbath is a period of rest equal to the same time period of six previous periods of work.

For an eternal sabbath to exist, there would have to be six periods of eternal work preceding it.

And that's impossible.

If they are all eternal, they will all overlap eternally.

[myth-one.com]

I don't know if this is what you have in mind, but there is absolutely no Scriptural support for a "Rapture," where half the people in the world will suddenly disappear, as pre-millenialists would have us believe.

Actually, there is biblical support for a "rapture."

All deceased Christians are resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming.

Christians who are alive on the earth at that time will be born again as spirits and meet them in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

They will not be transported to Heaven and the number raptured will not be half of all humans on the earth -- only the believers.

They will be raptured in the sense that they never experienced a death, but simply vanish:

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (I Corinthians 15:51)

[PinSeeker]

. . . the period of rest starts at our resurrection.... it lasts for a thousand years according to the scriptures.

You're conflating two entirely different things, myth-one:

• 1. I agree that a period of rest starts at the resurrection...
  
  • actually, after the Judgment, which is right after the resurrection; this is the eternal Sabbath... our eternal rest; in it there is no more sin, no more death, etc... eternal rest from any trial or tribulation whatsoever.
  ...and lasts for eternity; this is our eternal rest.
  
  2. The period of a thousand years -- which, again, is figurative and not literal -- precedes Jesus coming back, the resurrection, the Judgment, and (for us) the subsequent eternal rest. This figurative Millennium, and Jesus's Millennial reign, began at the time of His ascension and will end when He returns. This is the span of time in which all God's Elect, Gentile and Jewish believers alike, will be brought into God's Israel, His Kingdom, and they will reign with Him in heaven for the balance of time after their physical deaths, whatever that may be, up to the time of Jesus's return.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

As always, I'll have to side with the scriptures on this issue.

I getcha, and that's good that you want to "side with the Scriptures," but you understand the Scriptures wrong on this issue; that's the point.

What you claim is impossible anyway.

No... No, it's not, myth-one. It's not. All God's promises are not only possible, but also true and sure. All God's promises have their 'yes' and 'amen' in Christ Jesus.

A sabbath is a period of rest equal to the same time period of six previous periods of work.

In this life, that's absolutely true. But what we have now is only a sign -- and a foretaste -- of what's to come. In the life to come, for us believers, our rest from all trial and tribulation will have no end.

For an eternal sabbath to exist, there would have to be six periods of eternal work preceding it. And that's impossible. If they are all eternal, they will all overlap eternally.

LOL! No, for an eternal Sabbath to exist, there has to have been a time of trial and tribulation preceding it. And we endure it all our natural-born lives... but we will have an eternal rest from all trial and tribulation and sin. This is God's promise -- eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Grace and peace to you, myth-one.

[PinSeeker]

Actually, there is biblical support for a "rapture."

It will be a rapturous event, for sure. But not a "Rapture" in the sense that we will all disappear.

All deceased Christians are resurrected to everlasting spiritual life at the Second Coming.

Well, all currently living at that time and deceased Christians. But none will be disembodied, non-physical beings (ghosts). We will all be like Christ after His resurrection.

Christians who are alive on the earth at that time will be born again as spirits and meet them in the air...

Well, first, Christians who are on earth at that time will have already been born again (spiritually); indeed, being spiritually reborn of the Holy Spirit is what makes them Christians in the first place. But yes, we will meet him in the air...

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

They will not be transported to Heaven and the number raptured will not be half of all humans on the earth -- only the believers.

LOL! Nobody will be "transported to heaven" in the sense that they will be removed from the earth. No, at this rapturous event -- Jesus's figurative taking by force His kingdom from the "ruler" of this world, Satan, once and for all -- we will all join Jesus as He returns. And then, as I said, the Judgment will ensue, and after that, eternal life and rest from all trial, tribulation, and sin.

They will be raptured in the sense that they never experienced a death, but simply vanish:

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (I Corinthians 15:51)

Looks like you mistakenly equate 'change' with 'vanish.' This should not be done, as it is terribly in error. With all due respect, that thinking is terribly simplistic and as such just plain wrong. You say "raptured in a sense," which I would agree with, but we don't "vanish." When Jesus comes, we (believers, the wheat) stay; we are co-heirs with Christ. The tares are sent away for eternity; they are the ones who "vanish" from the face of the earth (but they don't cease to exist).

[Red Wolf]

There have been numerous claims that Jesus will soon return
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_d ... tic_events

He's never coming back...he's dead.