Is the Supernatural Natural?

[man]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

[catnip]

[Replying to post 19 by catnip]

Can you give me some links to where ghosts are explained as scientifically feasible?

I would like to read more about where you got this idea.

Did you read my post? You appear to be stuck in a very unscientific mindset. And so far you have not paid attention to any post that I have posted in this thread. Please reread it and if necessary think about what it is saying.

The question isn't whether or not ghosts can be explained as scientifically feasible. I proposed one scientifically feasible explanation originally and you didn't even see it. The question is whether science can find scientifically feasible explanations of various ghostly phenomenon. Of course they can and have and have worked on that for years. The study I referred to above is reported in numerous publications and some that you can find on the net. One group of scientists think it is the end-all explanation and others don't think so.

I think what you really need to understand is the scientific method! Read up on and understand what I am saying: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-f ... thod.shtml

[man]

[Replying to post 19 by catnip]

Can you give me some links to where ghosts are explained as scientifically feasible?

I would like to read more about where you got this idea.

Did you read my post? You appear to be stuck in a very unscientific mindset. And so far you have not paid attention to any post that I have posted in this thread. Please reread it and if necessary think about what it is saying.

The question isn't whether or not ghosts can be explained as scientifically feasible. I proposed one scientifically feasible explanation originally and you didn't even see it. The question is whether science can find scientifically feasible explanations of various ghostly phenomenon. Of course they can and have and have worked on that for years. The study I referred to above is reported in numerous publications and some that you can find on the net. One group of scientists think it is the end-all explanation and others don't think so.

I think what you really need to understand is the scientific method! Read up on and understand what I am saying: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-f ... thod.shtml

Just because you have a piece of conjecture that you think sounds reasonable does not automatically qualify as scientifically feasible.

I assume you know what citations are, that's all I am asking for.

Why is that such a big deal, can't you find any like minded individuals?

[Yahu]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

Well considering He is the ONLY non-created being that exists, that is certainly outside of our natural experiences.

[man]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

Well considering He is the ONLY non-created being that exists, that is certainly outside of our natural experiences.

Ergo god is unnatural.

[Yahu]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

Well considering He is the ONLY non-created being that exists, that is certainly outside of our natural experiences.

Ergo god is unnatural.

From man's limited perspective it could appear that way based on our own understanding of what is natural. Angels appearing to someone would be 'unnatural' from most people's perspective. So would demons appearing.

Granted I know people that could see into the spiritual realm and that to most people would be 'unnatural'. I dealt with a coven that had that ability and they saw an angel backing me up that was several stories tall. I didn't see it but saw the look on their faces.

So it all comes down to your own perception of what is 'natural'. To any non-Christian, Yah must appear as unnatural but not to believers.

[Yahu]

Ergo god is unnatural.

So what is your scriptural proof that god is unnatural? This is the TD&D forum. Here we debate doctrine BASED ON SCRIPTURE.

Without any scriptural evidence of your position, your opinions are irrelevant in this forum. If your not here to debate scripture, go back to the apologetics subforum.

[man]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

Well considering He is the ONLY non-created being that exists, that is certainly outside of our natural experiences.

Ergo god is unnatural.

From man's limited perspective it could appear that way based on our own understanding of what is natural. Angels appearing to someone would be 'unnatural' from most people's perspective. So would demons appearing.

Granted I know people that could see into the spiritual realm and that to most people would be 'unnatural'. I dealt with a coven that had that ability and they saw an angel backing me up that was several stories tall. I didn't see it but saw the look on their faces.

So it all comes down to your own perception of what is 'natural'. To any non-Christian, Yah must appear as unnatural but not to believers.

You know people that could see into the spiritual realm?

Seriously?

[man]

Ergo god is unnatural.

So what is your scriptural proof that god is unnatural? This is the TD&D forum. Here we debate doctrine BASED ON SCRIPTURE.

Without any scriptural evidence of your position, your opinions are irrelevant in this forum. If your not here to debate scripture, go back to the apologetics subforum.

That's like us talking about whether or not one plus one equals two and then you say scriptural proof is required.

Scriptural proof is not required, a functional brain is required.

[Yahu]

The natural and the supernatural are obviously two very different things.

The supernatural exists outside of what we call natural, it is by definition not natural.

If something is not natural calling it unnatural is the same as saying it is not natural.

If god is supernatural then by definition god is unnatural.

Well considering He is the ONLY non-created being that exists, that is certainly outside of our natural experiences.

Ergo god is unnatural.

From man's limited perspective it could appear that way based on our own understanding of what is natural. Angels appearing to someone would be 'unnatural' from most people's perspective. So would demons appearing.

Granted I know people that could see into the spiritual realm and that to most people would be 'unnatural'. I dealt with a coven that had that ability and they saw an angel backing me up that was several stories tall. I didn't see it but saw the look on their faces.

So it all comes down to your own perception of what is 'natural'. To any non-Christian, Yah must appear as unnatural but not to believers.

You know people that could see into the spiritual realm?

Seriously?

Yes, lots of them. I know many Christians that have 'visual discernment of spirits'. I also know it can be an ability granted via witchcraft as a counterfeit form. A coven I dealt with had the knowledge of how to give an individual that ability so they could see the spirits they summoned.

It is not that uncommon an ability. I have a pastor friend that sees into the spiritual realm all the time. He says it can be unnerving to be talking to an individual and seeing demons crawling on them. He has to pretend he doesn't see them.

He saw a darkness around my throat but couldn't make out what it was so he prayed for clarity. The next time I saw him he said it was gone and asked what I had done in the past week. I had been breaking off curses sent by witchcraft, one of which was a 'suicide death curse'. What he had seen was a black set of hands about my throat.

I have dealt with others that also saw into the spiritual realm. Another pastor was praying over me and saw 5 bands of darkness wrapped around my chest. He specifically stated it was sent by witchcraft and had no knowledge about my past conflict with a coven.

I have a form of discernment of spirits myself but not the visual form. I actually get spiritual scents. I could smell death and corruption all over a girl that I later found out was a high level witch that had already dedicated 23 abortions to her goddess and used the blood from them in her witchcraft. I have gotten sweet smells during worship.

The ability of 'discernment of spirits' is not that uncommon though people without it may think it is unnatural. The bible just mentions the gift but does not explain it. You have to actual experience it to understand it. Discernment of spirits is a primary gift needed for those called into the office of prophet. If you can't discern what spirit is speaking through you, that would be a problem.

Discernment of spirits also works in biblical doctrinal teaching. A false doctrine tends to knot up my guts by sensing a lying spirit behind it. I can also sense when something is highly anointed by the Holy Spirit because it resonates with the Holy Spirit within me.

Having experiences with spiritual things has nothing to do with believing in God. The coven I dealt with didn't believe until they encountered me. They considered me a prophet of a rival deity by the time I left. They claimed I had 'channeled Jesus'! Then when I called down angelic protection from their witchcraft as I was leaving, they saw the angel appear behind me. I had just cast off all spells and spirits sent by them onto me and my wives as I left their party. As I was leaving, one of them called down a blessing on us in the name of her goddess. I wanted no part of blessings or curses via her goddess and broke off all spirits sent in the name of her goddess and sent them back 7x then called on angelic protection. The witch that had blessed me thanked me for sending it back 7x but the other faction of the coven had been sending curses on us. That night destroyed the coven, before the night was over 8 of them were in jail and the coven was under police investigation. They were all convicted and many involved died in prison. They coven blamed me and spent years in prison sending curses after me.

It took me 17 years to get rid of them. I had totally suppressed all the memories of that time of my life and that too had been from a 'memory clouding spell'. Someone else I knew saw the spirit of confusion about my head and cast it off. Then the memories came back and I started clearing out the rest of the curses and I told you of 2 of those events. I could actually feel the breaking off of love spells. It was like a claw grasping my heart that caused a constant pain of being separated from my wife. I had lost my wife in that conflict with the coven. They bound us together then took my wife from me then I had suppressed the memories of ever even being married and the entire conflict with witchcraft.

Spiritual things are ONLY unnatural to people without any natural experience with spiritual things. I learned 1st hand that witchcraft is very REAL. It nearly killed me. It did kill many I had rebounded the curses back onto 7x. They died brutally in prison.

[Yahu]

Ergo god is unnatural.

So what is your scriptural proof that god is unnatural? This is the TD&D forum. Here we debate doctrine BASED ON SCRIPTURE.

Without any scriptural evidence of your position, your opinions are irrelevant in this forum. If your not here to debate scripture, go back to the apologetics subforum.

That's like us talking about whether or not one plus one equals two and then you say scriptural proof is required.

Scriptural proof is not required, a functional brain is required.

This subforum is for debating theology based on scripture as authoritative. If you want to harass or ridicule christian beliefs, there is an area for that nonsense so those interested in theology can avoid those types of attacks.

This entire thread is in the wrong subforum. If you don't take scripture as authoritative, why post in this subforum? It is REQUIRED for posts in this area.

You see, I can sense the spirits influencing you even across the net through the arrogant condescending attitudes of your posts. The mere fact you would come to a theology forum to disrupt actual theology shows what is driving you.

So I will leave you with an actual biblical quote:

2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.