Resurrection, what is it?

[Checkpoint]

We are familiar with the word, and know what it is in a general sense.

Yet when it comes down to it, our views of exactly what it means, what it involves, and why it is promised, vary, probably more than we realise.

That is because how we see it reflects how we see the creation of man, and our ultimate destiny.

What do you think resurrection is, and why is it an essential part of God's plan?

Does it refer to only the body, or to the person? If to the person, in what way?

What about the resurrection of Jesus, is it the same for us as it was for him?

Is the resurrection of the unsaved any different?

Acts 24:15

having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

[Yahu]

We are familiar with the word, and know what it is in a general sense.

Yet when it comes down to it, our views of exactly what it means, what it involves, and why it is promised, vary, probably more than we realise.

That is because how we see it reflects how we see the creation of man, and our ultimate destiny.

What do you think resurrection is, and why is it an essential part of God's plan?

Does it refer to only the body, or to the person? If to the person, in what way?

What about the resurrection of Jesus, is it the same for us as it was for him?

Is the resurrection of the unsaved any different?

Acts 24:15

having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust.

This is my understanding.

Resurrection is into our glorified immortal physical bodies, not some spirit only spirit body. I consider that being a 'spirit body' like the JW doctrine as being only raised as a ghost. What good is that?

Yeshua was the 'first fruits' of the resurrection. We would be resurrected exactly as He was into a physical being.

Daniel talks about those in the resurrection being raised while some are to eternal shame while the wise shine as the firmament and the wise that bring many to righteousness will shine as the stars. Yeshua is to shine as the sun in His glory so we will each shine by the level of glory we have achieved. Then we are told in Rev 2&3 that overcomers will be clothed in robes of glory while some have soiled garments referenced also in Jude. And we are told that those not in their best 'wedding garments' are cast from the wedding feast into the outer darkness. The robes are earned by righteousness.

So your clothes and the level of personal glory in the resurrection is based on our actions in this life. You can't earn your salvation, it is a gift, but you can earn rewards/status/glory in your 'glorification' at the judgement seat of Christ. Those rewards include positions of authority within the kingdom as presented to the overcomers of the errors listed in Rev 2&3, the letters to the 7 churches.

The point is there will be those that share the throne room with great authority and have mansions on the heights while there will be those of little to no authority/status that live in the ghetto apartments on the outer wall or even those outside the walls, banned from entering into the city gates and eating of the tree of life.

Now the resurrection of the unsaved is later, after the tribulation. They are raised and stand judgement of the White Throne judgement. We are not totally sure if some are allowed to live out a 2nd life or not. Do all go into the lake of fire? If so, why stand individual judgement? Since 'eternal life' is a reward, is a 2nd mortal life available to some that were righteous but had no knowledge of Yah or Yeshua? Those options are open to debate but we know that Yah will be JUST. We only know in part now.

[Yahu]

The resurrection of the "unsaved" will be the same as most of mankind's resurrection. Only the 144,000 will be resurrected to heaven.

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes. That is absolutely NOT JWs.

The name meanings of each tribe gives a message to the role of those 144,000. Since Dan means judge, it has no part in the message.

[onewithhim]

The resurrection of the "unsaved" will be the same as most of mankind's resurrection. Only the 144,000 will be resurrected to heaven.

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes. That is absolutely NOT JWs.

The name meanings of each tribe gives a message to the role of those 144,000. Since Dan means judge, it has no part in the message.

No. Most of Revelation is symbolic, and the bit about the tribes of Israel fits right in with that idea, because when John wrote about those 12 tribes in Rev.chapters 7 and 14, those tribes he listed symbolized the Bride of Christ---SPIRITUAL Israel. Do you not know that after Christ was rejected by Israel, the privilege of being God's special people went to the Christian congregation that accepted Jesus? (Matthew 21:43; Matthew 23:37,38; Acts 15:14; I Peter 2:9,10)

This special people, this "holy nation"---the Christian congregation---has been preaching since Jesus went back to heaven. In these last days they have been intensifying the effort. When the Great Tribulation hits, the preaching work will be FINISHED. Jesus said that "the Good News of the Kingdom will be preached in all the earth as a witness to the nations AND THEN THE END WILL COME." (Matt.24:14) That means the end to this old system of things. It will end when the preaching work is DONE. It ends starting with the Great Tribulation. It will be too late to do any more preaching. So what use is it for the 12 tribes of Israel to begin preaching during the Tribulation??? What will they preach??? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there are even 144,000 Jews that believe that Christ is the Messiah......if there are, are they preaching about him NOW? If not, why not? And if they ARE, then what is the point of starting up preaching during the Great Trib, since they have already been preaching???

I wait for you elaboration.

[Talishi]

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes.

And not a single icky woman among them.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

[Checkpoint]

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes.

And not a single icky woman among them.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Such must be the conclusion of those who take Revelation literally.

[onewithhim]

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes.

And not a single icky woman among them.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Such must be the conclusion of those who take Revelation literally.

Yes. There is very little in Revelation that should be taken literally. The scripture in question is merely bringing out the fact that the 144,000 are spiritually non-adulterated.



Indeed we know that there are many women who are anointed.

[Checkpoint]

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes.

And not a single icky woman among them.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Such must be the conclusion of those who take Revelation literally.

Yes. There is very little in Revelation that should be taken literally. The scripture in question is merely bringing out the fact that the 144,000 are spiritually non-adulterated.


Indeed we know that there are many women who are anointed.

Yes, but I find your position is somewhat contradictory, in that you take the number 144,000 literally while taking the same ones "of Israel" spiritually or metaphorically.

One is not taken literally, the other is.

Why?

[JehovahsWitness]

Yes, but I find your position is somewhat contradictory, in that you take the number 144,000 literally while taking the same ones "of Israel" spiritually or metaphorically.

One is not taken literally, the other is.

Why?

If I may be so bold as to interject a thought.

There is no "all or nothing rule stated in Scripture", so why impose that in the book of Revelation?

John introduces the book stating that he (John) was on the Island of Patmos, there is no reason to presume that that wasn't literal, but he goes on to say he saw Jesus with a sword coming out of his mouth: Symbolic. Even the lirteral numbers are mixed with symbolism: Jesus is always depicted in the singular (one) but that (one) individual is depicted as a lamb (figurative).

Although there is indeed very little that should be taken literally, it seems evident that the number, reflecting as it does, other aspects in scripture (the literal 12 Apostles, the literal 12 tribes of Israel) is not without significance.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 28 by JehovahsWitness]

Yes, and I couldn't have said it better. I reasoned that way myself, that the number of tribes of Israel is literal, and the 12 Apostles is literal (Revelation 21:12,14). So why not 12,000 X 12,000?

[Talishi]

LOL, the 144,000 are Israelites raised up as a witness during the tribulation. 12,000 from each tribe except Dan, but both half tribes.

And not a single icky woman among them.

Rev 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Such must be the conclusion of those who take Revelation literally.

Yes. There is very little in Revelation that should be taken literally. The scripture in question is merely bringing out the fact that the 144,000 are spiritually non-adulterated.

That the Bible would use, as a metaphor for spiritual adulteration, sex with women, is one of the reason I'm not a believer. A quick glance at my credentials indicates "feminist".