The Holy Spirit is?

[Checkpoint]

A person, an influence of some kind, an "active force", or?

If a person, which person? Is he someone we can know and talk to and hear from?

If not a person, then how, if at all, are we to relate to this non-person?

Please explain why you have the view you present, and reject other ideas.

[For_The_Kingdom]

[Replying to post 19 by tigger2]

Those examples are false equivalences. In the Acts scripture (Ananias/Sapphira), the Holy Spirit is personified as God. However, in the examples you gave, those inanimate objects don't correspond to an actual person or actual people.

They are obviously literary devices, whether you want to call it metaphorical or symbolic...but one thing you can't call it, and that is literal.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

The Holy spirit is God's force or active power,

That sure makes the Holy Spirit a non-person, something inanimate that God uses.

My reading of scripture tells me otherwise.

2 Corinthians 3:

17 Now the Lordd is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord,e are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another.f For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Revelation 2:7; 3:6,11,13

He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

[JehovahsWitness]

CONCLUSION While there are a number of scriptures that seem to attribute human characteristics to the holy spirit, the bible on occassion does the same for to things such as fire, water and rocks...

They are obviously literary devices, whether you want to call it metaphorical or symbolic...

So what is to stop those same "literary devices" being applied to the holy spirit? Especially when making a case for the Deity of the Holy Spirit is scriptually difficult, because there just aren't many scriptures pointing that direction.

[Checkpoint]

A person, an influence of some kind, an "active force", or?

If a person, which person? Is he someone we can know and talk to and hear from?

If not a person, then how, if at all, are we to relate to this non-person?

Please explain why you have the view you present, and reject other ideas.

As a Trinitarian, I believe the Holy Spirit is God (a person). However, I also admit that making a case for the Deity of the Holy Spirit is scriptually difficult, because there just isn't many scriptures pointing that direction. However, what do we have?

The best case, in my opinion, for the Deity of the Holy Spirit is the famous situation involving Ananias and Sapphira in Acts 5, when they kept part of the proceeds that they sold to themselves instead of giving it all to the Church.

Peter confronted Ananias by saying "Why has Satan filled your heart by lying to the Holy Spirit and keep part of the price of the land for yourself".

So the question is, if the Holy Spirit is just a mere "force" like Jehovah's Witnesses would like us to believe, then how can you lie to a force?

Then this "force" is identified as "God", when Peter states, "You have not lied to man but to God".

So, the Holy Spirit is a person, and this Holy Spirit is God, as the context indicates. That is the best we have. And then you have other scriptures where the Spirit speaks (Rev 22:17), and only a person can speak.

That is the Biblical case for the Holy Spirit being identified as the third person of the Holy Trinity.

Good observations that do indicate personality.

However, they provide no evidence that person is "the third person of the Holy Trinity".

Maybe because that concept was yet to be thought of.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

The Holy spirit is God's force or active power,

That sure makes the Holy Spirit a non-person, something inanimate that God uses.

INANIMATE adjective
not alive; showing no sign of life; lifeless.

Why would you conclude that? Can anything that is part of God, issuing from him be described as "lifeless"? Is there any part of God that is "lifeless"?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 20 by For_The_Kingdom]

that still doesn't explain why the Holy Spirit is speaking in the Revelations scripture.

This point has been FULLY addressed by tigger2:


RELATED POSTS

What is God's holy spirit?
viewtopic.php?p=413826#p413826

Do Peter's words to Ananias not lead us to conclude the holy spirit is indeed a person?
viewtopic.php?p=868863#p868863

Does Revelation 22 that refers to the spirit "speaking" necessarily prove it is a person?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 918#868918

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 20 by For_The_Kingdom]

Therefore, we can reason that the Holy Spirit is not only a force, but a PERSONAL force, if we are to harmonize the scriptures. ... I don't see how this contradicts the view of a personal active force.

"A personal active force"?

Please explain your statement here. You seem to be indicating that you believe God's spirit is indeed an active force, a personal one.

My "personal" diary, is a diary that BELONGS to me. My "personal" account, is a bank account that belongs or is attributed to me for my own particular use. Are you using the word "personal" in this sense* ? If not can you explain what you mean by "personal"?

Jehovah's Witnesses believe the holy spirit is an active force, that is PERSONAL to God as in, it belongs to God for his personal use; in short we believe it not only a force but a PERSONAL active force. We do not however believe it to be a person (an intelligent individual with its own autonomous will and personality) . And you?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

The Holy spirit is God's force or active power,

That sure makes the Holy Spirit a non-person, something inanimate that God uses.

INANIMATE adjective
not alive; showing no sign of life; lifeless.

Why would you conclude that? Can anything that is part of God, issuing from him be described as "lifeless"? Is there any part of God that is "lifeless"?

Because that is what your description tells us.

In that the Holy Spiritt has no volition of its own, and needs God its possessor to do the animating.

It is "part of God"? Like a leg or an arm, for example?

That expression reminds of "the Trinity that comprises of three persons or segments[parts] of God.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 28 by Checkpoint]

Would you like to comment on the two scriptures I quoted, JW?

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 14 by JehovahsWitness]

The Holy spirit is God's force or active power,

That sure makes the Holy Spirit a non-person, something inanimate that God uses.

INANIMATE adjective
not alive; showing no sign of life; lifeless.

Why would you conclude that? Can anything that is part of God, issuing from him be described as "lifeless"? Is there any part of God that is "lifeless"?

Because that is what your description tells us.

No, that is what you erroneously concluded.

Comparing something to inanimate objects doesn't mean that thing IS an inanimate object. I used inanimate objects to explain, to illustrate my point. If someone said their lover as sweet as honey that wouldn't mean they are in a romantic relationship with a condiment. A similie does not mean that the two elements are equivalents in every aspect but in one or more aspects.

Nothing that is of God or part of God can be "without life" and nothing that is of God can exist seperate from him, so the holy spirit that is separate cannot exist. That which does not exist cannot be described as "inanimate" or "animate" alive or dead, connected or disconnect... "inanimte holy spirit" is a oxymoron.

Hope that helps,

JW