If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?
Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.
Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?
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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?
Post #21Maybe my words were not clear. Here's the problem: Gentiles did not understand Jewish law or what temple sacrifices were all about. Gentiles knew nothing of Jewish prophecies concerning a coming Savior. The language of the Hebrews was not the language of the Gentiles; Latin was the language of the Gentiles at the time of Christ. The Gentile world was the world of Idolatry. They worshipped the Caesars of Rome and their many gods. Jesus meant nothing to the Gentiles and was, for the most part, unknown to them. Most likely, the Old Testament scrolls were in the hands of the Temple Priests only, not the public. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written to the Jews, not the Gentiles. There was no complete Bible until the 4th century. So, the letters most likely remained in Jewish hands. It was Paul's letters written to the Gentiles that made clear Gentile salvation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 3:29 pmDidn't you say would a Gentile, who knew only the O.T. and the four Gospels, understand how to be saved? Not that a Jew might not understand. Your premise was what a Gentile would understand. I think I answered that quite well.placebofactor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:03 pmThroughout your paragraph, you are mixing apples with oranges. No Jew in the Old Testament understood that one day the Gentiles would share in the blessings given to the Jews through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:16 pmYes you would understand how to be saved. You would remember that in the OT it says that ALL of the nations will bless themselves by means of the Messiah (Genesis 22:18). Then you would go to John 3:16 and get the understanding that you must believe in Jesus and what he did. You must believe also what he said at Matthew 24:13, that the one who endures to the end will be saved. That involves action on our parts as Jesus indicated at Matthew 5:16. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (KJV) That involves doing God's will: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.." (Matthew 7:21, KJV) How can we know the will of the Father? I would say by studying the Gospels, and of course the Old Testament as well, and applying what we learn in our lives.placebofactor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?
Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.
I believe Jesus had the temple destroyed to get Christian Jews away from their temple worship, their law, and their sacrifices. He had to scatter them throughout the Roman empire into Gentile lands for the Gospel to be spread throughout the then civilized world.
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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?
Post #22Did you mean Gentiles in the far past or Gentiles NOW? I understood your question to be about Gentiles in the present.placebofactor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 1:23 pmMaybe my words were not clear. Here's the problem: Gentiles did not understand Jewish law or what temple sacrifices were all about. Gentiles knew nothing of Jewish prophecies concerning a coming Savior. The language of the Hebrews was not the language of the Gentiles; Latin was the language of the Gentiles at the time of Christ. The Gentile world was the world of Idolatry. They worshipped the Caesars of Rome and their many gods. Jesus meant nothing to the Gentiles and was, for the most part, unknown to them. Most likely, the Old Testament scrolls were in the hands of the Temple Priests only, not the public. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written to the Jews, not the Gentiles. There was no complete Bible until the 4th century. So, the letters most likely remained in Jewish hands. It was Paul's letters written to the Gentiles that made clear Gentile salvation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 3:29 pmDidn't you say would a Gentile, who knew only the O.T. and the four Gospels, understand how to be saved? Not that a Jew might not understand. Your premise was what a Gentile would understand. I think I answered that quite well.placebofactor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:03 pmThroughout your paragraph, you are mixing apples with oranges. No Jew in the Old Testament understood that one day the Gentiles would share in the blessings given to the Jews through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:16 pmYes you would understand how to be saved. You would remember that in the OT it says that ALL of the nations will bless themselves by means of the Messiah (Genesis 22:18). Then you would go to John 3:16 and get the understanding that you must believe in Jesus and what he did. You must believe also what he said at Matthew 24:13, that the one who endures to the end will be saved. That involves action on our parts as Jesus indicated at Matthew 5:16. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (KJV) That involves doing God's will: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.." (Matthew 7:21, KJV) How can we know the will of the Father? I would say by studying the Gospels, and of course the Old Testament as well, and applying what we learn in our lives.placebofactor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 26, 2025 3:10 pm If I, as a Gentile, knew only the Old Testament and the four Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, would I, as a Gentile, understand what I must do to be saved?
Please be specific, and if you quote any verses from the Gospels, explain your understanding of them. Do not quote verses from Acts to Revelation.
I believe Jesus had the temple destroyed to get Christian Jews away from their temple worship, their law, and their sacrifices. He had to scatter them throughout the Roman empire into Gentile lands for the Gospel to be spread throughout the then civilized world.
Also, Jesus didn't have to have the temple destroyed to have the Word spread throughout the world. That is exactly why Jesus' disciples went out into the known world. Jesus taught them to go to all the cities (and witness in twos), and if the house did not welcome them they were to shake the dust off their feet and go elsewhere. (Luke 8:1; Matthew 10:7,11-14)
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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?
Post #23Gentiles in Jesus day.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:49 pmDid you mean Gentiles in the far past or Gentiles NOW? I understood your question to be about Gentiles in the present.placebofactor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 1:23 pmMaybe my words were not clear. Here's the problem: Gentiles did not understand Jewish law or what temple sacrifices were all about. Gentiles knew nothing of Jewish prophecies concerning a coming Savior. The language of the Hebrews was not the language of the Gentiles; Latin was the language of the Gentiles at the time of Christ. The Gentile world was the world of Idolatry. They worshipped the Caesars of Rome and their many gods. Jesus meant nothing to the Gentiles and was, for the most part, unknown to them. Most likely, the Old Testament scrolls were in the hands of the Temple Priests only, not the public. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written to the Jews, not the Gentiles. There was no complete Bible until the 4th century. So, the letters most likely remained in Jewish hands. It was Paul's letters written to the Gentiles that made clear Gentile salvation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 3:29 pmDidn't you say would a Gentile, who knew only the O.T. and the four Gospels, understand how to be saved? Not that a Jew might not understand. Your premise was what a Gentile would understand. I think I answered that quite well.placebofactor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:03 pmThroughout your paragraph, you are mixing apples with oranges. No Jew in the Old Testament understood that one day the Gentiles would share in the blessings given to the Jews through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses.onewithhim wrote: ↑Sat Mar 29, 2025 1:16 pm
Yes you would understand how to be saved. You would remember that in the OT it says that ALL of the nations will bless themselves by means of the Messiah (Genesis 22:18). Then you would go to John 3:16 and get the understanding that you must believe in Jesus and what he did. You must believe also what he said at Matthew 24:13, that the one who endures to the end will be saved. That involves action on our parts as Jesus indicated at Matthew 5:16. "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." (KJV) That involves doing God's will: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but "he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.." (Matthew 7:21, KJV) How can we know the will of the Father? I would say by studying the Gospels, and of course the Old Testament as well, and applying what we learn in our lives.
I believe Jesus had the temple destroyed to get Christian Jews away from their temple worship, their law, and their sacrifices. He had to scatter them throughout the Roman empire into Gentile lands for the Gospel to be spread throughout the then civilized world.
Also, Jesus didn't have to have the temple destroyed to have the Word spread throughout the world. That is exactly why Jesus' disciples went out into the known world. Jesus taught them to go to all the cities (and witness in twos), and if the house did not welcome them they were to shake the dust off their feet and go elsewhere. (Luke 8:1; Matthew 10:7,11-14)
Concerning Matthew 10, verse 5, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and COMMANDED THEM, saying go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter you not." I would say that 'COMMAND" was pretty clear.
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Re: Will the 4 gospels tell a Gentile how to be saved?
Post #24Didn't I say that Jesus and his disciples went at first only to the Jews? Jesus did not witness to the Gentiles; his followers would do that later on, starting with Peter baptizing Cornelius and his family.placebofactor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 3:13 pmGentiles in Jesus day.onewithhim wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 2:49 pmDid you mean Gentiles in the far past or Gentiles NOW? I understood your question to be about Gentiles in the present.placebofactor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 11, 2025 1:23 pmMaybe my words were not clear. Here's the problem: Gentiles did not understand Jewish law or what temple sacrifices were all about. Gentiles knew nothing of Jewish prophecies concerning a coming Savior. The language of the Hebrews was not the language of the Gentiles; Latin was the language of the Gentiles at the time of Christ. The Gentile world was the world of Idolatry. They worshipped the Caesars of Rome and their many gods. Jesus meant nothing to the Gentiles and was, for the most part, unknown to them. Most likely, the Old Testament scrolls were in the hands of the Temple Priests only, not the public. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John were written to the Jews, not the Gentiles. There was no complete Bible until the 4th century. So, the letters most likely remained in Jewish hands. It was Paul's letters written to the Gentiles that made clear Gentile salvation.onewithhim wrote: ↑Thu Apr 10, 2025 3:29 pmDidn't you say would a Gentile, who knew only the O.T. and the four Gospels, understand how to be saved? Not that a Jew might not understand. Your premise was what a Gentile would understand. I think I answered that quite well.placebofactor wrote: ↑Sun Apr 06, 2025 6:03 pm
Throughout your paragraph, you are mixing apples with oranges. No Jew in the Old Testament understood that one day the Gentiles would share in the blessings given to the Jews through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Moses.
I believe Jesus had the temple destroyed to get Christian Jews away from their temple worship, their law, and their sacrifices. He had to scatter them throughout the Roman empire into Gentile lands for the Gospel to be spread throughout the then civilized world.
Also, Jesus didn't have to have the temple destroyed to have the Word spread throughout the world. That is exactly why Jesus' disciples went out into the known world. Jesus taught them to go to all the cities (and witness in twos), and if the house did not welcome them they were to shake the dust off their feet and go elsewhere. (Luke 8:1; Matthew 10:7,11-14)
Concerning Matthew 10, verse 5, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and COMMANDED THEM, saying go NOT into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter you not." I would say that 'COMMAND" was pretty clear.